Mormans and polygamy

[CEM5]

There is no such instruction from Jesus in the New Testament. Polygamy was permitted under the Mosaic Law, and it would have been practiced by some of the Jews (as well as some Christians) at that time.

It just doesn’t.

zerinus,

you are sadly mistaken and don’t know the Scriptures at all if that is what you claim. From the beginning God created one man and one woman. This was marriage. God did not create one man and many women in the beginning.

Here, straight from God’s Holy Word:
Matthew 19: — He answered, "Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning "made them male and female,’ 5 and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?” 8 He said to them, “It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery.” See, one man and one woman: become ONE flesh. No mention ever of one man and many wives. In fact, Jesus makes it quite clear that doing so is committing adultery. Additionally, marriage is between one man and one woman just as the Scripture teaches, and if polygamy was OK by Jesus, He would have stated so. He would have said in effect that one man and many women are joined together to create a monstrous joining of many flesh. They would become a monster and not one flesh!!!

Matthew 5:27 NRSA
"You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery.’

Matthew 5:28 NRSA
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Lusting after other women is committing adultery, and taking another woman other than your ONE lawful wedded wife is committing adultery.

Mark 10:19 NRSA
You know the commandments: "You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.’

Just like the Muslims permit polygamy, so do the pseudo-christian Mormons. It goes against God’s teachings from the beginning and in contrast to Jesus’ teachings.

 

[flyonthewall]

A martyr is a “witness” of God’s truth who dies peacefully for their faith in God’s truth.No violence on the martyr’s part.

Here is a definition of “martyr” from the Dictionary:

mar·tyr   /ˈmɑrtər/ Show Spelled
[mahr-ter] Show IPA

–noun

1. a person who willingly suffers death rather than renounce his or her religion.
2. a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice.

Now the dictionary disagrees with your definition.
Joseph willingly gave himself up, knowing that he would be killed.

 

[zerinus]

zerinus,

you are sadly mistaken and don’t know the Scriptures at all if that is what you claim. From the beginning God created one man and one woman. This was marriage. God did not create one man and many women in the beginning.

Here, straight from God’s Holy Word:
Matthew 19: — He answered, "Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning "made them male and female,’ 5 and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh’? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.” 7 They said to him, “Why then did Moses command us to give a certificate of dismissal and to divorce her?” 8 He said to them, “It was because you were so hard-hearted that Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity, and marries another commits adultery.” See, one man and one woman: become ONE flesh. No mention ever of one man and many wives. In fact, Jesus makes it quite clear that doing so is committing adultery. Additionally, marriage is between one man and one woman just as the Scripture teaches, and if polygamy was OK by Jesus, He would have stated so. He would have said in effect that one man and many women are joined together to create a monstrous joining of many flesh. They would become a monster and not one flesh!!!

Matthew 5:27 NRSA
"You have heard that it was said, "You shall not commit adultery.’

Matthew 5:28 NRSA
But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Lusting after other women is committing adultery, and taking another woman other than your ONE lawful wedded wife is committing adultery.

Mark 10:19 NRSA
You know the commandments: "You shall not murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; You shall not defraud; Honor your father and mother.’

Just like the Muslims permit polygamy, so do the pseudo-christian Mormons. It goes against God’s teachings from the beginning and in contrast to Jesus’ teachings.

None of the scriptures you have cited speak against polygamy.

 

[KathleenGee]

Christ only spoke of one man and one woman…and then you have to study then the practice of faith after the death of Christ and His resurrection…

But then if you die the Church ceased to exist after the death of St. John the Evangelist…then anybody could make up any new creed…it is up for grabs…anything goes…

people bend reality so they can fit themselves in…self will…

 

[Pax_in_Veritate]

Is Mormon polygamy determined by power and wealth or love?? Joseph Smith had 50 wives, I believe. Did the farm attendant have multiple wives?

 

[Pax_in_Veritate]

There is no such instruction from Jesus in the New Testament. Polygamy was permitted under the Mosaic Law, and it would have been practiced by some of the Jews (as well as some Christians) at that time.

It just doesn’t.

How was polygamy regulated under Mosaic Law?

Historical Question: were women considered property in the old testament, as women were considered property in many feudal countries?

 

[JeanMichel]

Interestingly, the Muslim religion was founded the same way as the Mormon religion. Both Mohammed and Joseph Smith claimed to have been visited by an angel. Both were illiterate men. Both believed in polygamy. Both made up their own “sacred texts” that taught new and heretical “doctrines”/practices. (the Koran and Book of Mormon). What is also of importance is that Mohammed at first believed this “angel” was Satan and was very afraid. Yet his wife convinced him otherwise.

blessings,
CEM

I am curious CEM, which heretical doctrines are found in the Book of Mormon? If you cannot provide such examples in the Book of Mormon, why on earth would you state such a thing?

There is such vast difference between knowledge of a subject and repeating the fallacy of others. As my mother always taught me, “if you don’t know what you are talking about, hold your tongue.” To speak from ignorance while feigning knowledge causes others to doubt all that you say. The problem is that you have truth to speak; please don’t bury it with such inane statements.

The Book of Mormon is fairly innocuous from doctrinal position. The only doctrine in it that would cause a Catholic to reject is its declaration that all children that die do not need to be baptized because they are covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ.

 

[zerinus]

Is Mormon polygamy determined by power and wealth or love?? Joseph Smith had 50 wives, I believe. Did the farm attendant have multiple wives?

In all societies where polygamy has been practiced and been culturally acceptable, only a small percentage of the population have actually practiced it. That was true in ancient times, as well as in Islamic and African countries today where it is permitted, as well as among the Mormons when it was practiced among them.

How was polygamy regulated under Mosaic Law?

I can’t say I know for sure; but I would guess the same as monogamy. According to the Bible the inheritance laws for the children were the same, and presumably in other respects they would have been treated equal as well.

Historical Question: were women considered property in the old testament, as women were considered property in many feudal countries?

Not according to the Bible. They had the right of choice, and could marry (or not marry) whom they liked.

 

[Esdra]

In all societies where polygamy has been practiced and been culturally acceptable, only a small percentage of the population have actually practiced it. That was true in ancient times, as well as in Islamic and African countries today where it is permitted, as well as among the Mormons when it was practiced among them.

I can’t say I know for sure; but I would guess the same as monogamy. According to the Bible the inheritance laws for the children were the same, and presumably in other respects they would have been treated equal as well.

Not according to the Bible. They had the right of choice, and could marry (or not marry) whom they liked.

Historically seen, I am not sure if it was like that. Weren’t many women married to their from their parents chosen husband? And the husband was chosen considering economical benefits between the parents in childage of the broom and the bride…
In many islamic countries this is still norm!
I have a good friend from Bangladesh - and even HIM his dad wanted to marry to a woman.
But he refused… And so far this topic hadn’t come up again.

Esdra

 

[zerinus]

Esdra:
Historically seen, I am not sure if it was like that. Weren’t many women married to their from their parents chosen husband? And the husband was chosen considering economical benefits between the parents in childage of the broom and the bride…
In many islamic countries this is still norm!
I have a good friend from Bangladesh - and even HIM his dad wanted to marry to a woman.
But he refused… And so far this topic hadn’t come up again.

Esdra

I was talking about the biblical norm, not how it was (or is) practiced in all primitive societies. The Indian subcontinent in particular is notorious for treating women like commodities; but they do not follow the biblical norm.

 

[Esdra]

I was talking about the biblical norm, not how it was (or is) practiced in all primitive societies. The Indian subcontinent in particular is notorious for treating women like commodities; but they do not follow the biblical norm.

I am pretty sure that arrange-marriages were also the norm among the Jews from whom we have the Bible!

Esdra

 

[vsedriver]

I know that the Mormon religion no longer accepts polygamy, but obviously some still practice it. The show on TV, Sister Wives does nothing to help their cause, I’m sure. I watched several episodes back to back and I don’t even see them mentioning God at all. They mention the importance of family, but my goodness the poor women and all the emotional suffering they endure. Could someone explain the reasoning behind it and how this would be pleasing to God? Also, if the LDS now do not allow it, how did they come to that conclusion? Or is it only because it is against the law?

Here’s a book you may want to read:

Inside Mormonism by Isaiah Bennett

shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=195

 

[Pax_in_Veritate]

Mormons believe polygamy is righteous and allowable when commanded by the lord, but not to be practiced when outlawed by the government.

Questions: Is this a "Judeo Christian Nation? then from a Mormon Perspective?
Are the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints practicing polygamy in places where it is not outlawed?

 

[Pax_in_Veritate]

It was allowed, and indeed commanded, because it was the will of the Lord that it should be revealed and practiced at that time. We believe it is permissible when it is allowed and commanded by the Lord; otherwise it is not. We believe that the ancient prophets and patriarchs who practiced it in the Old Testament did so with the approval of the Lord.

The reason why it was stopped was because it was declared unlawful by the US government. We also believe that we should abide by the law of the land. When the US Constitutional Court declared it unlawful, we complied with the law. We haven’t abandoned the theology of it, as expressed in the above paragraph; but we discontinued the practice to comply with the law of the land.
.

What is more important the law of the land or the law of god? A Mormon would surely argue that the USA is in error in outlawing polygamy.

Secondly, are Mormons actively lobbying for Restoration of polygamy based on said error, especially if this is a Judeo Christian Nation? And who do you blame for outlawing polygamy in America and elsewhere, the Christians and the faiths that inform their conscience or the Liberal types?

Thirdly, why would you EXCOMMUNICATE a Latter Day Saint for living out the theology of the church? You state that you have no abandoned that theology.

Fourth, is Polygamy allowed in Israel, the land of the Jews and Judasim, The spirtual and god given homeland of gods chosen people?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Mormons believe polygamy is righteous and allowable when commanded by the lord, but not to be practiced when outlawed by the government.

Questions: Is this a "Judeo Christian Nation? then from a Mormon Perspective?
Are the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints practicing polygamy in places where it is not outlawed?

In 1890, the practice was to send people outside of the USA to Mexico and Canada. Mormon polygamous marriages continued there until 1910, when the Mormon church declared that polygamy should not be practiced anywhere.

Recently, I heard through Catholics serving missions in Africa that polygamists converting to Mormonism were not required to cease their polygamist lifestyle. I asked about it on an LDS board, looking for what their church policy is. People had a notion that they were required to stop practicing polygamy, but that is not what is being reported as what is occurring. No one could point me to an official policy.

 

[Esdra]

In 1890, the practice was to send people outside of the USA to Mexico and Canada. Mormon polygamous marriages continued there until 1910, when the Mormon church declared that polygamy should not be practiced anywhere.

Recently, I heard through Catholics serving missions in Africa that polygamists converting to Mormonism were not required to cease their polygamist lifestyle. I asked about it on an LDS board, looking for what their church policy is. People had a notion that they were required to stop practicing polygamy, but that is not what is being reported as what is occurring. No one could point me to an official policy.

The RLDS Church, better said the Community of Christ states in their D&C Section 164:
"
6c. However, timely resolution of pressing issues in various nations is necessary for the restoring work of the gospel to move forward with all of its potential. Therefore, let the proper World Church officers act in their callings—as already provided in church law—to create and interpret church policies to meet the needs of the church in different nations in harmony with the principles contained in this counsel. "

And I have read somewhere that this should legalize polygamous familys in India for Indians who convert to the Community of Christ.

I can be wrong 'though…

And this although polygamy has been forbidden in the RLDS as early as 1860 (or so; when they were formed)

Esdra

 

[Publisher]

The RLDS Church, better said the Community of Christ states in their D&C Section 164:
"
6c. However, timely resolution of pressing issues in various nations is necessary for the restoring work of the gospel to move forward with all of its potential. Therefore, let the proper World Church officers act in their callings—as already provided in church law—to create and interpret church policies to meet the needs of the church in different nations in harmony with the principles contained in this counsel. "

And I have read somewhere that this should legalize polygamous familys in India for Indians who convert to the Community of Christ.

I can be wrong 'though…

And this although polygamy has been forbidden in the RLDS as early as 1860 (or so; when they were formed)

Esdra

The RLDS, now Community of Christ, made provision for those converts in other countries that practiced polygamy. They did not require the polygamous marriages be disolved as they saw it more as an issue of survival. A woman in those countries where polygamy was allowed would be left destitute or have to turn to prostitution if divorced from their husband. The marriages were allowed to stand…just no more plural marriages were to be entered into…it was a “redemptive” decision by the CoC…they church had to bear some difficult situations.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Polygamous converts to Catholicism are required to give up their polygamous lifestyle. He must live as brother and sister with all but one wife. This does not remove the man from his obligations to care for the other women or his children by them.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The RLDS Church, better said the Community of Christ states in their D&C Section 164:
"
6c. However, timely resolution of pressing issues in various nations is necessary for the restoring work of the gospel to move forward with all of its potential. Therefore, let the proper World Church officers act in their callings—as already provided in church law—to create and interpret church policies to meet the needs of the church in different nations in harmony with the principles contained in this counsel. "

And I have read somewhere that this should legalize polygamous familys in India for Indians who convert to the Community of Christ.

I can be wrong 'though…

And this although polygamy has been forbidden in the RLDS as early as 1860 (or so; when they were formed)

Esdra

I wasn’t aware the the RLDS ever allowed polygamy. They denied (still do?) that Smith was ever polygamous.

 

[Esdra]

I wasn’t aware the the RLDS ever allowed polygamy. They denied (still do?) that Smith was ever polygamous.

Don’t know. But I know that polygamy never has been doctrine of the RLDS Church(es).

Esdra