Mormom belief: Jesus was in the Americas.

[Nicea325]

My mission pres said that in 1985 during a conference at the Mayan ruins in Honduras.

I, too, am still waiting.

No dice still-eh?

 

[Nicea325]

To be honest, the church rely’s to much on “feelings” rather than logic and tangible evidence. It drives me crazy sometimes. :banghead:

Yeah tell me about it. I get the “feeling” I am going to win the lottery and has not happened yet.

 

[SteveVH]

What a great opportunity to learn from the scriptures…

John 14:12 (KJV) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Sorry, I missed this post somehow.

Yes, this is a great opportunity to learn from the Scriptures. Jesus was addressing all believers here, not Joseph Smith in particular. Joseph shows nothing but his ignorance and his arrogance in these statements. Thank God for Joseph Smith because the Creator of the Universe just couldn’t pull it off. Who do you think you’re kidding?

 

[Nicea325]

Sorry, I missed this post somehow.

Yes, this is a great opportunity to learn from the Scriptures. Jesus was addressing all believers here, not Joseph Smith in particular. Joseph shows nothing but his ignorance and his arrogance in these statements. Thank God for Joseph Smith because the Creator of the Universe just couldn’t pull it off. Who do you think you’re kidding?

Isn’t amazing how the LDS church places Joey over God? I mean…GOD? What madness!

 

[TheIrishman]

Isn’t amazing how the LDS church places Joey over God? I mean…GOD? What madness!

It’s very subtle at church if you aren’t paying attention to it. But if you listen and pay attention to what is being taught and said at church. Joseph Smith is talked about more than Jesus Christ. Rarely is there a lesson just on Jesus Christ, but almost always is there a lesson that involves Joseph Smith. It’s very subtle but you can see it if you’re paying attention.

 

[Sunflake9]

Irish,

How can people be Members of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and not be bothered when Christ is talked about less than Joe? I mean come on people! How gullible can you be? Shouldn’t it be The Church of Joseph Smith of Latter day Saints. When he can keep a religion together better than Jesus! I know where there’s smoke there’s fire, doesn’t anybody smell the smoke?

The one thing I would love is for someone to answer this question. When Jesus said “On this rock I shall build my church, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.” Either Jesus way lying or the 200 yr old LDS faith is full of smoke blowers. My bet is on the 2nd choice. Christ being the second person of the Blessed Trinity, I would think he knows what he is talking about.

 

[debbie_h]

Have you heard about the spaceship that Peter saw?

 

[Porknpie]

u huh.

That is one of the worst answers ever.

If they excavated Cumorah and found the remains he says are there, the Church would see its members grow a lot…and inactives return. It would be the first real evidence that the Book of Mormon is true.

But, if they excavated and found nothing, the only members who would remain are the GAs…

the risk is greater than the potential gain

Tex, the LDS church could evacuate Cumorah and show the whole world that their treachings are true. They could stop sending out missionaries…they wouldn’t need to. Think of the museum and shopping center that they could build on the spot!

I agree that their leadership knows their faith is in error and they are hiding it from their flock.

 

[twopekinguys]

Tex, the LDS church could evacuate Cumorah and show the whole world that their treachings are true. They could stop sending out missionaries…they wouldn’t need to. Think of the museum and shopping center that they could build on the spot!

I agree that their leadership knows their faith is in error and they are hiding it from their flock.

They wouldn’t even need to do any digging.

There is technology such as ground penetrating radar that would pick up any metals, or structures that are supposedly buried in the hill.

They won’t even allow that.

 

[zaffiroborant]

They wouldn’t even need to do any digging.

There is technology such as ground penetrating radar that would pick up any metals, or structures that are supposedly buried in the hill.

They won’t even allow that.

Somebody could do it themselves if they wanted, you can use ground penetrating radar from a helicopter

 

[SteveVH]

Irishman -

Did they teach you that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri?

Unbelievable.

From the Bible we know that a river flowed from an unknown source through the land of Eden and then split into four headwaters forming the four rivers mentioned in Genesis; the Pishon River which is said to have “flown around the whole of the land of Havilah, where there is gold.” The second river is called the Gihon River which is said to have flowed around the land of Cush. The third river mentioned is the Tigris which ran east of Assyria, as it does now. The fourth river is the Euphrates. It is commonly agreed that its location was also the same as it is today.

How in the world could anyone actually believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri?

 

[jakasaki]

According to Smith, the Garden of Eden was located in Jackson County, Missouri and following his expulsion from the Garden, Adam traveled northward to a place near modern-day Gallatin, Missouri. Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt stated that the name Adam-ondi-Ahman “is in the original language spoken by Adam, as revealed to the Prophet Joseph” (Journal of Discourses 18:343).

Tenth Mormon President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote,

"In accord with the revelations given to the Prophet Joseph Smith, we teach that the Garden of Eden was on the American continent located where the city of Zion, or the New Jerusalem will be built. When Adam and Eve were driven out of the Garden, they eventually dwelt at a place called Adam-ondi-Ahman, situated in what is now Daviess County, Missouri" (Doctrines of Salvation 3:74).

mrm.org/eden

It’s all rubbish…!!

 

[RebeccaJ]

How in the world could anyone actually believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri?

Because Smith said so:

"In the 1830s, Mormons being forced out of Jackson County, Missouri, settled just south of Daviess County in Caldwell County, in the settlement of Far West. In February 1838, Lyman Wight built a home and established a ferry on the Grand River at a spot known as “Wight’s Ferry.”

That spring, Joseph Smith, Jr. visited the site. He proclaimed there were either two or three (depending on subsequent interpretations) altars built by Adam at the site.[citation needed] One altar called the “altar of prayer” was by Lyman’s house on Tower Hill. It was described as “sixteen feet long, by nine or ten feet wide, having its greatest extent north and south. The height of the altar at each end was some two and a half feet, gradually rising higher to the center, which was between four and five feet high — the whole surface being crowning.”[2] The other altar — called the “altar of sacrifice” — was said to be a mile to the north on top of Spring Hill.[3]

On May 19, 1838, Smith formally revealed his belief that Adam-ondi-Ahman was the place where Adam went after being exiled from the Garden of Eden.[4] On June 25, 1838, at a conference in Wight’s orchard, a Mormon settlement at Adam-ondi-Ahman was formally established. Within a few months, its population grew to 1500.[5]" (Wikipedia)

…and LDS believe anything and everything he said, no matter how far-fetched. Sometimes I think he put out the most ridiculous things he could, just to display for himself the sort of control he had over people.

 

[SteveVH]

mrm.org/eden

It’s all rubbish…!!

The capability of human beings to accept a belief that contradicts all rational thought is frightening to me. It reminds of the Mormon bishop, who, when asked to provide any historical evidence in favor the “Great Apostasy”, told me that he didn’t need history; he had the testimony of Joseph Smith.

Wake up people!

 

[RebeccaJ]

My all time favorite Smith whopper is Zelph, the white Indian.

Heber C. Kimball wrote in 1841 that several of the group, along with Joseph Smith, walked to the top of a mound that they had located on the bank of the Illinois river. Kimball states that “[o]n the top of this mound there was the appearance of three altars, which had been built of stone, one above another, according to the ancient order; and the ground was strewn over with human bones.” This prompted Kimball and the others to dig into the mound after sending for a shovel and a hoe. “At about one foot deep we discovered the skeleton of a man, almost entire; and between two of his ribs we found an Indian arrow, which had evidently been the cause of his death. We took the leg and thigh bones and carried them along with us to Clay county. All four appeared sound.”[3]

After continuing on their journey, Kimball reports that "t was made known to Joseph that he had been an officer who fell in battle, in the last destruction among the Lamanites, and his name was Zelph. This caused us to rejoice much, to think that God was so mindful of us as to show these things to his servant. Brother Joseph had enquired of the Lord and it was made known in a vision."[4] (Wikipedia)

This is the same Kimball who turned his 14 year old daughter over to Smith to “marry”…wife #26.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Unbelievable.

From the Bible we know that a river flowed from an unknown source through the land of Eden and then split into four headwaters forming the four rivers mentioned in Genesis; the Pishon River which is said to have “flown around the whole of the land of Havilah, where there is gold.” The second river is called the Gihon River which is said to have flowed around the land of Cush. The third river mentioned is the Tigris which ran east of Assyria, as it does now. The fourth river is the Euphrates. It is commonly agreed that its location was also the same as it is today.

How in the world could anyone actually believe that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri?

Not that I support the LDS belief that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, but I’m curious to read more about these sources that you’ve read that lead you to say that it is “commonly agreed” that the location of the Garden of Eden was in the same place as those rivers today. A quick Google search leads to people stating that it is unsure where it was, whether the pre-Flood world was the same as the world now, redepositing of sediment, etc. So I’m curious to read what the actual scholarship has to say that leads to that conclusion. Thanks.

 

[jakasaki]

I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again… This reminds me of:

Islam / Muslims / Quran/Ahadith
LDS / Mormons / BOM/Book of Abraham

 

[SteveVH]

Not that I support the LDS belief that the Garden of Eden was in Missouri, but I’m curious to read more about these sources that you’ve read that lead you to say that it is “commonly agreed” that the location of the Garden of Eden was in the same place as those rivers today. A quick Google search leads to people stating that it is unsure where it was, whether the pre-Flood world was the same as the world now, redepositing of sediment, etc. So I’m curious to read what the actual scholarship has to say that leads to that conclusion. Thanks.

Read my post again. I didn’t say that it was commonly agreed that the Garden of Eden was in the same place, I said that it is commonly agreed that the Euphrates River is in the same location as it always has been. We know that the river that ran through Eden branched out into the four rivers that are mentioned in Genesis and we know that those four rivers are nowhere near Missouri, not even on the same continent. This isn’t rocket science.

 

[Nicea325]

It’s very subtle at church if you aren’t paying attention to it. But if you listen and pay attention to what is being taught and said at church. Joseph Smith is talked about more than Jesus Christ. Rarely is there a lesson just on Jesus Christ, but almost always is there a lesson that involves Joseph Smith. It’s very subtle but you can see it if you’re paying attention.

Precisely why Mormonism is all man-made and man-centered: Joesph Smith. Seems as though he is there demi-god.

 

[SteveVH]

Google search leads to people stating that it is unsure where it was, whether the pre-Flood world was the same as the world now, redepositing of sediment, etc. So I’m curious to read what the actual scholarship has to say that leads to that conclusion. Thanks.

A “re-depositing of sediment”? Try a re-depositing of entire continents. It is really difficult for me to be believe that any rational human being could believe such a thing.