Mormom belief: Jesus was in the Americas.

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TheIrishman said:
I actually asked my professor this question of why we don’t excavate Cumorah, want to know what he told me?

“The church doesn’t need to excavate Cumorah to know that that’s the resting place of thousands of nephites and lamanites. And besides, the beauty of the hill would be ruined and would no longer be a sacred landmark.”
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LOL. With all the technology today we wouldnt have to dig anything up. Ground-penetrating radar works wonders!!!
 
kimg901 said:
LOL. With all the technology today we wouldnt have to dig anything up. Ground-penetrating radar works wonders!!!
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I wonder if any members of the LDS faith have requested that their church leaders do this?
 
LivingWaters7 said:
I too am sitting here shaking my head that you cannot understand my simple request for the “modern science” you have been reading to substantiate your understanding (perhaps its because I’m published in chemistry and pharmacology that I look for such a standard when discussing scientific matters). I see now it was too much to ask (thanks Rebecca for your help). If you read the article I linked to multiple posts ago, you would understand the beginnings of why I found your statement problematic. It has nothing to do with other continents, the flood moving continents, etc (nor have I said or implied such). That’s what you’re reading into my statements.

Carry on.
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When I refer to “modern science”, I mean that in a very general sense. I did not read some specific scientific study on the location of the Tigris and the Euphrates. It is common knowledge as to where they have always been located. And while I found Rebecca’s post interesting as well, that is not the point I am making. My deduction is based on a very simple fact. The Garden of Eden, according to Scripture, is in proximity to the four rivers mentioned and we know they are not in Missouri. Its as simple as that. 🙂

This is the difference between the Bible and the Book of Mormon. We can actually swim in the rivers mentioned in Genesis (at least two of them). We can walk the streets of Jerusalem and Bethlehem. We know where the Temple was located, there are ruins. We can fish in the Sea of Galilee. In other words, we have verifiable truth that at least the places and people discussed actually existed.

Not so with the Book of Mormon. In fact there is not a shred of verifiable evidence that the civilizations it mentioned even existed at all. Nothing. Objective truth is always verifiable. We can talk about gravity, but we can also demonstrate it. We know the Bible deals with real places and real people. We know nothing of the kind with the Book of Mormon.

I say this because of the proclivity of Mormons to live in a world of “what if” and in doing so ignoring known facts (such as Eden was located somewhere in proximity to the Tigris and Euphrates, not in Missouri). God gave us the gift of reason (one of the characteristics of being made in his image and likeness) so that we would have the ability to discern truth. When we discard reason we are left vulnerable to the imagination; purported truths that are not verifiable, and we can be tricked. There is no evidence by which reason would cause us to believe in the Book of Mormon. The belief is completely subjective, based on an internal feeling which can neither be proven nor disproven. And those “feelings” are subject to human desires, needs, wishes, chemical imbalances, and on and on…

So, based on the evidence, there is none that would cause us to believe that Jesus ever physically visited America outside of the tabernacles in Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
 
lax16 said:
I wonder if any members of the LDS faith have requested that their church leaders do this?
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Im sure there has been a few that really believe if it were looked at they would find the evidence. But I think we know it wont ever happen. Maybe we should collect the money for this and do our own survey and have cameras and we will call it “Religion Busters” But on a serious note, someone with money could probably do this.
 
👍
kimg901 said:
Im sure there has been a few that really believe if it were looked at they would find the evidence. But I think we know it wont ever happen. Maybe we should collect the money for this and do our own survey and have cameras and we will call it “Religion Busters” But on a serious note, someone with money could probably do this.
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There may be some legal problems with this but yes, with modern technology, I think it is possible to do it from the air. If that is true then it would take away any argument based on not wanting to do physical damage to the hill.
 
SteveVH said:
👍

There may be some legal problems with this but yes, with modern technology, I think it is possible to do it from the air. If that is true then it would take away any argument based on not wanting to do physical damage to the hill.
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If it was me and I was still a mormon, I would want the church to say “Everyone, we are going to do this because we want the truth to be told” But hey, if there are 40 million mormons and they all have to pay 10%, thats alot of money to lose!
 
kimg901 said:
If it was me and I was still a mormon, I would want the church to say “Everyone, we are going to do this because we want the truth to be told” But hey, if there are 40 million mormons and they all have to pay 10%, thats alot of money to lose!
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It does give us a clue as to the faith the LDS leadership places in the truth of the Book of Mormon. People asked to study the Shroud of Turin and they were allowed. People asked to study the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and they were allowed. We invite all skeptics to study our claims.
 
SteveVH said:
It does give us a clue as to the faith the LDS leadership places in the truth of the Book of Mormon. People asked to study the Shroud of Turin and they were allowed. People asked to study the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and they were allowed. We invite all skeptics to study our claims.
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Yes, but our claims can be seen by all and read by all. The only thing we cant show folks is the Garden of Eden but I would say 99 out of a 100 aint bad.
 
kimg901 said:
Im sure there has been a few that really believe if it were looked at they would find the evidence. But I think we know it wont ever happen. Maybe we should collect the money for this and do our own survey and have cameras and we will call it “Religion Busters” But on a serious note, someone with money could probably do this.
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:clapping:
 
SteveVH said:
It does give us a clue as to the faith the LDS leadership places in the truth of the Book of Mormon. People asked to study the Shroud of Turin and they were allowed. People asked to study the image of Our Lady of Guadalupe and they were allowed. We invite all skeptics to study our claims.
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I couldn’t agree more! The proof is in the pudding.
 
lax16 said:
I wonder if any members of the LDS faith have requested that their church leaders do this?
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LDS members should demand that their church dig up Cumorah. The church wants to send missionaries out for two years and they could stop that by proving Cumorah is the site of the ancient battle. No missionaries would be needed if they dug up, 1500 year old swords. I’d especially like to see just one chariot.
 
SteveVH said:
👍

There may be some legal problems with this but yes, with modern technology, I think it is possible to do it from the air. If that is true then it would take away any argument based on not wanting to do physical damage to the hill.
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It is possible to do it from the air and if I remember correctly the SC has said you can look at things that are visible from the air. If it is illegal to do GPR from the air it should be illegal for Google to take pictures of your yard. 🤷
 
zaffiroborant said:
It is possible to do it from the air and if I remember correctly the SC has said you can look at things that are visible from the air. If it is illegal to do GPR from the air it should be illegal for Google to take pictures of your yard. 🤷
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The problem is…It’s only cumorah by name. Even if they dug the whole hill up and found nothing, the church would just say that the actually “hill cumurah” is somewhere else. My understanding of the hill cumorah is that it’s mostly a “symbolic” representation and not the actually place.
 
TheIrishman said:
The problem is…It’s only cumorah by name. Even if they dug the whole hill up and found nothing, the church would just say that the actually “hill cumurah” is somewhere else. My understanding of the hill cumorah is that it’s mostly a “symbolic” representation and not the actually place.
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And I heard there was more than one. 🤷
 
TheIrishman said:
The problem is…It’s only cumorah by name. Even if they dug the whole hill up and found nothing, the church would just say that the actually “hill cumurah” is somewhere else. My understanding of the hill cumorah is that it’s mostly a “symbolic” representation and not the actually place.
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Very conveniently it’s always a smoke and mirrors game. It’s not about historical proof as in the Bible. It’s always take our word for it, and don’t question the book of mormon. Sad.
 
This would implies that Jesus discovered America right? I believe Jesus came way before America was discovered by Christopher Columbus in 1492.
 
TheIrishman said:
The problem is…It’s only cumorah by name. Even if they dug the whole hill up and found nothing, the church would just say that the actually “hill cumurah” is somewhere else. My understanding of the hill cumorah is that it’s mostly a “symbolic” representation and not the actually place.
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That might work if Many LDS prophets had not unequivocally that the Hill Cumorah where they have the pageant in NY was not THE Cumorah
 
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