Mormon "Apostasy & Restoration"

[catholic-rcia]

This is one truth from one Saint of the church that helped me come around to Christianity rather than Mormonism. It started a brand new thought process for me and drew me into the Christian view of God. I began to see the reasoning behind God being the Alpha and the Omega. The separation we call the fall of man, original sin and such. Why we need to leave God in order to find God. The Prodigal son syndrome. The difference between being a creature and becoming a god, to become like God but never be God. He will be our God and we will be His people. Here it is:

“When I was just twenty it gave me great satisfaction that I managed to read, and understand, the Ten Categories of Aristotle without a teacher. I would mention the book at every opportunity, slipping the title in with a touch of awe, smiling to myself when lecturers would comment how difficult it had been for them to answer it.
And much good it did me! Indeed, it was harmful, because it encouraged me to think of You, O Lord, as if you were part of what you had made, instead of being its essence and origin. Sadly, I had my back toward the light and my eyes fixed on the darkness. I could understand without difficulty logic, rhetoric, geometry, music, and arithmetic, but I did not see that my intelligence itself was a gift of God and that all the true things I learned came from him, their source.”
.**…**Saint Augustine

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www.chooseyourcross.com

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[Marie5890]

I began to see the reasoning behind God being the Alpha and the Omega. The separation we call the fall of man, original sin and such. Why we need to leave God in order to find God. The Prodigal son syndrome. The difference between being a creature and becoming a god, to become like God but never be God. He will be our God and we will be His people.

Thank YOU Catholic-rcia!

“Why we need to leave God in order to find God. The Prodigal son syndrome”

You just wrapped up in a couple of sentences a very powerful time in my spiritual journey and made it very clear for me.

God Bless you for your insights and for sharing them.

 

[KathleenGee]

Dianid…

First of all, you completely ignored my remarks of why I went to Deseret in the first place— to study Mormonism from your sources and not what others say Mormonism is. I liked the people I met very much and had alot of respect for them. It was 4 or 5 years ago but the comments stayed in my mind until I came on to this thread the other day.

Secondly, after contacting LDS headquarters— I could have blabbed it all around town – I went back to your source to see where it stood regarding the material I had read. They didn’t know about it.

So I went back to recheck the title and material, but when I got back 2 weeks later, it was pulled.

And then you went on and on…even to the point of reading into my comments and saying I bought the book and buried it…and then referring to me as a liar. To say that I lack courage to read that is ridiculous. You don’t know me or my own background and exposures.

In my recent comments, I said I was sorry to offend anyone, but this language is typical of that coming out of that era in that time.

But I do get hurt and tired having my faith and church referred to as whore, or saying we lost it a long time ago…where is the charity and truthfulness in that?

And how many from organizations and churches formed in that mindset even bother to read and study from our viewpoint?

Finally, I don’t have computer skills to draw on comments and reference here. So I am cumbersome. And I didn’t have time to go to Deseret this week again because I am working and we had Christmas last night. to say now that with your personal charges against me I am further prooving that I am a bad person, because now with your charges, I then didn’t immediatley drive to the store is off.

I think people in the fundamentalists sects refuse to study early Church history. It takes time, but before that you have to understand what our deposit of faith is.

Many of us have to study those events more in depth. And if you look at the expansion of faith in those days, it went throughout the world. You have to understand inculturation of faith, the liturgical rites, the practices of individual churches in the context of their times. It is hgihly complicated and is the work of many scholars.

But to deny that we lost our faith, that we are apostates, that only until 1830 or so Christ finally came through with a totally new take, such stand is not founded on historical truth, and invalidates the faith and good of our church. You always have the wheat with the chaff. The formation and duties of a Catholic priest are most different from a Mormon priest and you can’t compare the two. You don’t use the language, but the invalidation causes the same effect.

And your attitude towards the good we have done in the world…invalidates as well.

Any attack on any human being irregardless of their beliefs-- and behaviors – is wrong. I also think it equally questionable to consider Joseph Smith’s behavior OK – he was a very bad man.

We can take classes on the state of the Church preceding the Reformation in all its ugliness…we are transparent.

And when you talk about our history, you have to consider the sources. There were two American men out of the 1800’s who wrote on the Spanish Inquisition and drew on real parts but the perspective they held was in line with the Church being the great whore, etc. The documents were only opened in 2003, detailed by the priests. The vast majority of cases brought forward in the Inquisition were excused through the work of the clergy. And what is also overlooked was that the Jewish people could practice their faith. The issue was receiving the Eucharist without faith, and that is a sacrilege.

You will have to read up on the Catholic Church’s reason why we are not to belong to it.

About the Holy Spirit working…it is an action of grace, and works through the level of faith of that person open to Him…so I believe people…of all creeds…can receive movements of the Holy Spirit, but it is by their fruits that you know Him.

The Church never said you must tithe…but we all give freely, we are called to support…

Galileo…did cause an upset simply because the world believed otherwise…isn’t that the same with all human instiutions? Where he got into trouble was then making theological statements, and he was not a theologian. Same with your church, people stepping outside of their accepted authorities.

Mexico was the center of learning for the New World. Women and girls were given the right to an education in the 1500’s, hundreds of years before Anglo North American women were. The education and infrastructure of Mexico was destroyed by the Masonic Revolution of the mid 1800’s, and there was excesses by certain clergy there.

You may have one diocese or region of dioceses where there is corruption…but to say every Catholic in the diocese or the rest of the Catholics in the entire world are doing the same thing is stereotyping. You have to understand the nature and mission of our church.

So you have reported me to the shunning department? So that means I am removed from your baptism…boy, you really took me on! So I got banned because of what I came across in your bookstore…and it was bigoted, and I wasn’t clear about the title…

 

[KathleenGee]

Dianid,

Sorry, missed this point…I think it best you get a hold of Vatican II documents and see how we value true religion, and how essences of it can be found by all peoples throughout the world.

Also St. Paul in Romans states how a people can perceive aspects of God in their lives, many times through nature, and they can make choices of doing good or evil…

God has no favorites. Before Him, we are all the same.

I went back again to review the posts…and I think you have your understanding of faith and there are comments you have made to mine with the insinuation that I don’t understand…tithing was not enforced…but we were obligated…to help…in the maintenance of our churches…you may have a tithing parish…but that is a decision only for that ecclesial community and not a practice of the diocese…may be they had funds they needed to cover…but if people can’t give, they remain in good standing and that is between the pastor and the individual party.

Thank you, Dianid, for taking the time to cover some points about tithing in your church, it could have been a local ward’s practice, and the bit on shunning…

 

[KathleenGee]

My comment about Jesus Christ Eternal Word was taken out of context…

And an institution that is 2,000 years old living in historical events surrounding it…you will always find the chaff with the wheat…and our Church is constantly self-reforming…

Yes, our priesthood is so different than the Mormon’s you can’t compare the two…

And so you can’t say yours is better or the real one…

The Catholic Mass is the fulfillment of ancient Jewish liturgy…the liturgy of St. James the Lesser, who was one of the apostles of Jesus, was the head of the church of Jerusalem, and the intent, spirit, and a number of prayers are same as in Mass today, 2000 years later.

The Maronites have the liturgy of the Eucharist by St. John the Evangelist of which I attended a few years back, it going all the way back to St. John.

I read the story of a woman brought up in an anti-Catholic home. She decided to study the ancient catechisms. When she got hold of the catechism we use today, she saw the same teachings, and converted.

I think the flaw of Mormonism and all other sects coming out of America in the 1800’s is the lack of understanding of Christianity’s documented beginnings and the expansion of teachings…culminating in the Nicene Creed.

The Catholic/Orthodox priest is the fulfillment of the the old Jewish priesthood, that disappeared with the diaspora of the Jewish people. Christ is the fulfillment of Melchizedek…and He instituted His church through Peter. The successors to the apostles are the bishops, the priests Christ’s disciples. You can’t have the Eternal Word of Christ stand alone as well as He as High Priest. We as Catholics extend the Kingship, the role of Prophet and Priest in extending our faith into the world…extending holiness is acting as priest be you male or female.

You really have to understand the core of Catholic faith and how it expresses it in its multidisciplines. It is concrete. We have the 7 sacraments that come from Christ through His apostles. They are structured, and have norms to protect their integrity.

I found the post on The Pearl of Great Price and it does not contain those passages. I wonder if it was a commentary…but will never know because the book was pulled when I got back there several weeks later.

 

[KathleenGee]

And one comment about the Eucharist, in ancient times the great heresy was not to believe in the divine nature of the bread and wine becoming the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ…it is actual, again using the word, the Eucharist is concrete, visible, non-arbitrary.

The Apostles taught their followers and they continued with the truth that we do receive the Body and Blood of Christ, and the remains are properly disposed of after Mass, not thrown away as garbage.

Christ was wrapped and placed in a manger, an animal feeder as a sign of what He was to become for us.

We have the altar of stone for the Daily, unbloody Sacrifice. The priest is the administrator of the sacraments and the living foundation of the church present in our parish. The priest has always been set aside as intercessor to God for his people.

The Apostles would never entrust the true teachings of Christ from His Oral tradition, as I had shared with you on previous posts to an unreliable person who would change the message…this has never happened.

The Catholic Faith is apostolic, going back 2,000 years. That does give it the monopoly on holiness or perfection. Our perfection is found in Jesus Christ, His Word, His Sacraments, and Nicene Creed.

Merry Christmas!

 

[KathleenGee]

Correction…The Catholic Church is the true church instituted by Jesus Christ but that does Not mean that its people have a monopoly on holiness and good works…then you go case by case…and where you have studied Catholics doing wrong…there were Catholics in the same time who doing greater good but without the splash.

 

[catholic-rcia]

Correction…The Catholic Church is the true church instituted by Jesus Christ but that does Not mean that its people have a monopoly on holiness and good works…then you go case by case…and where you have studied Catholics doing wrong…there were Catholics in the same time who doing greater good but without the splash.

Kathleen
You desrve some time in the Blessed Sacrament Chapel. You deserve to have the greatest Christmas ever. Not because you or I deserve it…its what Jesus wants for us.

God Bless You and have a really good Christmas.
We are so blessed because we really get to attend itl the real thing! Christ-Mass
I will be with 7 (RCIA) here in Utah that will be attending Christmas for the first time in their lives. After we will be getting ready for the first Easter in their lives.
Again
God Bless!

This short story is told about Franz Josef, one of the Habsburg Emperors. He was returning from a military campaign and sought refuge in a monastery. He sent a soldier before him to announce his coming. “The Emperor Franz Josef seeks lodging in your monastery. Prepare a place for him.”

The guest master replied, “There is no room for him.”

When the soldier reported this to the emperor, he was furious. He approached the monastery surrounded by his military escort. He called out the guest master and said,

“Do you not know who I am? Ruler of the Austro-Hugarian Empire. I demand to spend the night here.”

The guest master looked at the emperor in his splendid clothes. Around him were the soldiers with their weapons, but the monk held his ground.

“There is no room for you here,” he told him.

One of the soldiers drew his sword and said,
“Sir, shall I kill this insolent monk?”

The emperor paused. Then he said to the monk, "No, I did not tell you who I really am.

I am Franz Josef, a sinner."
The monk said, “Come in, there is room for you here.”
www.utahmission.com
www.chooseyourcross.com

 

[KathleenGee]

Thank you! Our family had our Christmas dinner last night and I noted how the Lord visited us with His presence. Part of my family will be going to different in-law’s this year and so with new cases as well in my work, this past month has been quite hectic.

I am so happy you are where you are, and that you are in such a good and holy place. I would love to visit there and my family really enjoyed our past trips to Utah.

I was really ‘laid’ by all the rapid fire of posts that overshadowed my original intentions of visiting the store in the first place…I find the Campbell/Stone ideas particularly repulsive especially as they come out of our native land and our country has the highest number of denominations all spiraling out of the Sacred Word of God that gives us life and meaning for the higher ground.

I have not read a single Mormon post justifying replacement/restoration or whatever you call it. They simply do not know early church history, the Church Fathers, the liturgy and priesthood…ours and theirs are so different that it is like comparing apples and oranges.

The greatest number of healings by Christ regarded blindness and so much of that blindness stems from the heart and the lack of understanding through the will and mind. We don’t need glasses to see life in a new way, but we have the sacraments and penance is a great place for spiritual healing and new vision.

As I shared with another, you may be interested some day in studying the walk of perfection…It has nothing to do with outward appearance but the disposition of the heart in growing union with Jesus. The doctors of the church have written on perfection, union with God, and it is amazing.

May God bless you as you bless others in your walk in climbing the Holy Mountain of Jesus our Lord!

 

[Jay53]

Random thoughts regarding the “apostasy and restoration”.

I have been pondering this subject and keep thinking of St. Paul’s warning in Galatians:

But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! Galatians 1:8

My ponderings have been about why St. Paul used the word “we”? Who did he mean by that and why? Did St. Paul think that for some strange reason he or St. Peter, St. James et al would suddenly start teaching a different gospel? Or was he possibly foretelling that some (such as Joseph Smith) would distort his own words and the other Apostles’ Scriptures in a way contrary to what they had actually been teaching? Were these distortions of his own words what he was warning against? And by also mentioning the angel, could he also have been foretelling the “angel” that visited Muhammad and the “angel” that visited Joseph Smith?

 

[catholic-rcia]

This is really neat… Our Salt Lake Cathedral / all angles
https://www.saltlakecathedral.org/panorama/Madeleine_swf.html
Give it time to load, hit yes on the pop up.

This is our Cathedral in Downtown Salt Lake. It’s up on a hill right above the LDS temple homeless people and all. They send them up to us from their Temple. And it’s great to have them. Will speak about one I met below. First…

Notice the two large plaques in the picture. One on the left and one on the right. Here are the scriptures that are on them

1. Jesus said to him in reply, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah. For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my heavenly Father.

And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it. Matt 16-19

1. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed! Galatians 1:8

10 years ago, not long after I was baptized was I praying in the Cathedral one day, no other people were in there at the time. All of a sudden I heard the children’s Choir below and let me say …wow! It was pretty special.

As I was walking out I decided to take what is the North East door. As I was walking through a hall to get to it I began to hear women singing the psalms. As I turned the corner there she was, an elderly women sitting on a bench on the inside of the door with her shopping cart, and all that she had within it. The spirit asked me to give her all that I had in my wallet but I ignored it, it was as if I did not hear it. I had 20 dollars and I was thinking of lunch on the way home. If someone was with me I might have asked if they could break it into fives, then I could give five, look good to my friend, and still have lunch. I got about half way to my truck. All those people who think I am special, such a great guy. I realized God was asking me to help this women and I was saying no, I guess I had nothing to gain in such a transaction, other than to make myself feel good by being so nice an giving.

After a few tears, seeing who I really am I returned to the women. I gave her the 20 dollars and told her that this was not from me. That God asked me to give it to her.

She tenderly gave me a hug and said I know, and I knew you would come back. So here I am all exposed, willing to go back in a kind of shame and what do I get out of it? I get Jesus hugging me telling me I know. You never know what will happen within a trip to the Cathedral up on that hill. All I know is Jesus was there and I got to speak to him in more ways than one.

I pray that we all have a wonderful Christmas this year. If you are LDS, put aside any differences you may have with Catholics and go to Christmas this year, go to Christ Mass….Christmas. You will love it.

God Bless

 

[dianaiad]

I <snip…for space>

So my question then is, how would a Mormon know if they are “piggybacking” a false belief onto a true one. In the example above, one would have to believe Joseph Smith, but if you don’t, how would one reconcile the contradicting beliefs from the early Church to Mormonism?

I would say…by being very specific as to the question researched, studied and asked.

But, what if a Muslim claims they received an affirmation that the Quran is from God and that Jesus did not die on the cross? Again, they are “piggybacking” falsehood onto truth.
How can that Muslim, or anyone, know the difference?

Uhmn…I don’t know how Muslims do this…but I think that they are taught that the Quran IS absolutely inerrent and perfect, so that if the Quran says something is ‘so,’ they don’t have to do any praying about it. I could be wrong about that…and I’ll need a Muslim to answer this one, but HAVE there been any who have actually done this? That is, prayed to God to affirm that Jesus is the Christ and that He died on the Cross?

(shrug) Whatever, I don’t know what to tell you. I’m sure that there are times when one’s own wish to believe something might be so strong that it ‘feels’ like this affirmation, but we don’t actually have anything ELSE to use, or to compare ‘Truth’; against.

Any other approach to deciding religious truth is unacceptably circular.

QUOTE=Jay53;6074618]Thank you Diana for your insights. I appreciate your charitable response. Merry Christmas to you and your family.

…thank you, and have a very Merry Christmas yourself!

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

We call that the ‘laying on of hands,’ Rinnie, and it is THE way ordinations and blessings take place.

Actually, I can. But you have just identified the one GREAT difference between Catholicism and Mormonism. Just as you believe that the power of the Priesthood remains because of apostolic succession, so we claim that this power/authority was taken from the earth and had to be restored.

You believe you have that authority, and we believe we do. The two positions are mutually exclusive. But both versions of the priesthood, Catholic and CoJCoLDS, adminiister it by the ‘laying on of hands.’

I never claimed that Catholics do not have the Holy spirit with them to help them stay close to Christ. [SIGN]That’s a very different thing than having the authority to act in His Name, though.

[/SIGN]

Nope, it cant be. Jesus gave the power to the Apostles at Pentecost and they had the power to pass it on, And its been happening from the day of Pentecost. You say it ended, but you can say what you want, Proof is what we need. We can prove the that RCC has been here for over 2000 years. You try to deny that fact, but you cannot. We have proof. Check it out.

The CC is the only Church started by Jesus Christ. Your Church was started by Joseph Smith. Big difference.

 

[rinnie]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

That’s nice to know, Kathleen…but we ARE a lot of people, and your statements here have been archived forever.

Kathleen, I am not projecting anything. I am seeing that you keep insisting upon this even after it has been proven that you were incorrect, and you haven’t retracted your accusations or even checked to see if what we have been telling you is true.

We accept them just fine. We know that y’all are Christians, and have faith in Him. However, we also believe that since there WAS an apostasy during which the priesthood ([SIGN]authority to act in the name of God) was lost, [/SIGN]that any baptism performed by you would not be valid. We believe that this priesthood has been restored…and we have it.

If this is true, how could we possibly acknowledge any baptism to be valid but one performed by someone having the authority TO perform it? It would be incredibly contradictory.

That doesn’t mean that we don’t believe that you are Christians, or that God doesn’t love you, or that you don’t have deep and abiding faith in Christ–or indeed that you won’t go to heaven. It just means that we believe that some things have to be done by people who are authorized to do them, and you guys…aren’t. You don’t need to get baptized in order to be a Christian in general, but you do if you want to be the Mormon sort of Christian.

…just as you do if you want to be the Catholic sort.

See now right here, This is a big problem. Jesus promised us the gates of hell would not prevail, you are saying Jesus lied by saying the gate of hell did indeed prevail. You must see what you are doing and saying here.

 

[KathleenGee]

Catholic-RCIA,

We visited the Cathedral a number of times in SLC and yes, it is so beautiful! My husband said he’d go there if we were to move, and I would have to agree…

Thank you for the sharing!!! I have a tape of their music sung by the children and we played it driving down to Alpine with the great mountain scenery…

My children always picked Utah for their state project and the items they brought home to share always drew the most visitors to their exhibits…Utah is a geological wonder!

Merry Christmas!

Kathleen

 

[KathleenGee]

Hi Rinnie…

I was getting the shunning…

It does not stand on life experience to say that Christ, Who promised His apostles He would always be with them, Who said His Spirit would come Who would teach them many things, and that they would do more than Him…

To pick His apostles…and then Nothing…

Jesus Christ is the full and final revelation of Who God is…

Remember the words of St. Michael, “Who is like unto God!”…

For Joseph Smith to claim a new doctrine, to invalidate everything the Catholic Church is taking the place of God Himself because he is making a new Jesus…and not whitewash it by claiming there are some in there who inspite of being Catholic are Christian…that is passing judgment on a class of people as well as our church and revealing that they know nothing of our history.

One man invalidated the whole 2,000 year history of Christianity. Jesus did not pick one apostle; He picked 12, the number representing the Church and perfection.

Our Apostles Creed…the Nicene Creed that affirms Jesus is True God and True Man…

The theophany of the Lord’s Baptism by St. John the Baptist, God came as witness Who said, ‘This is My Beloved Son, for Whom I am well pleased’, as the Dove, the Holy Spirit hovered over Jesus.

Our baptism reflects these truths. And they are all enduring…we recognize protestant baptisms because of their belief in the Trinity made evident at the baptism of Our Lord…The Christian baptism means being incorporated into the Body of Christ, True God and True Man, and that the Lord left us His church to guide us without arbitration but in the concrete.

To understand Sacred Scriptures, we understand them from the Sacred Tradition of the Catholic Church passed down through the Apostles derived from the Oral Tradition of Christ Himself.

Our God is all merciful and all forgiving.

The God we worship and profess is bigger than all our sins as Christians and as a church. God has forgiven us and the sins of our church. It is Christ Who sustains the Church and it is through Him that the Church cannot be terminated or destroyed.

Thus we are a Christocentric faith, a gathering of people a communion of saints we wish to enter some day, may God have mercy on us!

Jesus, Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity, Font of Mercy, have mercy on us!

 

[rinnie]

Hi Kathleen, I agree. I think and I have been saying this through-out this thread. I think that their problem is in understanding the Trinity.

I read somewhere on this thread, (don’t have time now to look it up) but at least thought I read one of them say we think that the HS can trump God. Which is silly because the HS is made up of God. They cannot understand that there is Only ONE God made up of 3 separate beings. Thats for some reason cannot understand. And until they can understand the Trinity they will never see our faith. But they are at least here trying to learn and thats a good thing.

 

[KathleenGee]

There are three persons in one God…and people have a hard time separating personhood from God…

I studied God in Summa Theologicae by St. Thomas Aquinas…very thick, and we had a Dominican teaching us, very bright class who enjoyed the erudite tradition, of which I am not gifted.

God cannot contradict Himself…that is also why True understanding of Scripture must incorporate the entire content, not fragments, bits and pieces…all imagery and events are inspired Word of God, but not necessarily in some places as literal. Nevertheless, it is God present to us and Jesus is the Eternal Word…because He was of God, and showed us His face…One God…always the theme…

But Jesus revealed God as family and this the Church defined as the Holy Trinity and not only our reconciliation back to God through His Son, but that we are once again His sons and daughters.

Any different stories, imagery and actions outside Scriptures…even including names of angels or peoples, we cannot claim as true.

 

[Jay53]

I would say…by being very specific as to the question researched, studied and asked.

But what if the “feeling” one gets, that they think is an affirmation, contradicts empirical evidence? Should one trust that “feeling” as an affirmation or not?

Uhmn…I don’t know how Muslims do this…but I think that they are taught that the Quran IS absolutely inerrent and perfect, so that if the Quran says something is ‘so,’ they don’t have to do any praying about it. I could be wrong about that…and I’ll need a Muslim to answer this one, but HAVE there been any who have actually done this? That is, prayed to God to affirm that Jesus is the Christ and that He died on the Cross?

I have no idea. It would be interesting to get a Muslim perspective on this, however I don’t know if any are reading this thread.

(shrug) Whatever, I don’t know what to tell you. I’m sure that there are times when one’s own wish to believe something might be so strong that it ‘feels’ like this affirmation, but we don’t actually have anything ELSE to use, or to compare ‘Truth’; against.

Any other approach to deciding religious truth is unacceptably circular.

This is very true. One needs something to judge their “feeling” against as the Truth. God would have given us some way to determine His Truth vs. what is lies from Satan or what is just our subjective “feelings”. For me, that is Jesus and in turn the Church that He founded. For you, (I would guess - feel free to correct me if I am wrong ), it would be Jesus and in turn Joseph Smith and the church that he “restored”.

I guess, part of my confusion with Mormonism is why Mormons believe Joseph Smith. What criteria for a prophet did he meet that made him trustworthy - more trustworthy than the Catholic Church or more trustworthy than Muhammad. For example, you don’t believe Muhammad is a prophet of God or that the Quran is His revelation. Why not? Muhammad claims to have been visited by the Angel Gabriel, he received (supposedly) the same revelations from Allah over 23 years and he never recanted his position. What makes Joseph Smith more trustworthy?

 

[KathleenGee]

I found the Muslim dialogues very circular, and then when there was a group of them using one name…it obvious to me by their individual insights, use of language, etc., that it pretty much ended it for me…people would go to great lengths explaining the crucifixion, then a new person would take the chair and then ask all over again what we meant by this or that?

Remember and this is most important…our Catholic Faith is concrete…open to all. Jesus was most literal when He said this is My Body and this is My Blood…note all the norms we have in protecting the Sacred Species…they are not dumped down the drain or thrown in the garbage.

The Presence of God we receive in the Eucharist is the same God Who led the Jewish people out of Egypt, Who parted the Red Sea, Who fed them the Manna of Heaven, Who was born in an animal feeder…with the words of the angel saying, “Look there”…this is explicit and concrete…to become our Everlasting Food and Nourishment for there were those who walked away thinking He was speaking of cannibalism…when in fact it was our beginning entrance to the Banquet Table.

'Whoever eats of Me will have eternal life!" What the Catholic priest is most sublime, the intercessor, priest who takes ordinary bread and wine with power of God from the laying on of hands by the Bishop…this Spirit coming from Jesus through His apostles! to transform ordinary food into the Manna of Heaven…

You can’t compare…

The sacraments are visible signs containing the invisible presence of God. We have the liturgy, the fulfillment of the altar of ancient Israel for the Atonement of Sin, Whose action takes place every hour of the day around the world.

As Padre Pio said, mankind will not realize the power of the Mass until it is no longer said. The Mass is the greatest power of God on earth and binds Satan. How much we need to make use and attend more, or atleast make a spiritual communion with it…Morning Offering.