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RebeccaJ
Guest
May God grant him eternal rest.
- Status
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Marie5890
Guest
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dianaiad
Guest
No, I don’t. I think perhaps that you do, though. After all, I’m not the one who claims that He doesn’t talk to us any more.
What did Jesus miss that He had to have Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Paul and Peter do all the talking about Him so that we know about Him? Because if the only reason for calling a prophet now is because He ‘missed’ something earlier, then evidently He missed pretty much everything during His life time.
Again, we have NONE of His words directly. Not one. Everything we have of Him is from those who spoke with Him, walked with Him–and recieved revelation FROM Him. From He, Himself?
not a peep.
In that He is proving that God does indeed not change; after all, “Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.” Amos 3-7
He did it this way before Christ was born…and He did it that way after His death and resurrection. The only people to whom He spoke directly were those who were blessed enough to live in the same time and space He did. He never wrote anything down Himself. He did not leave a gospel (and He could have; He was literate. He chose not to. Doesn’t THAT tell you something?)
As I mentioned–and have always maintained, we individually have been able to form a relationship with Him; that was not lost. What WAS lost, and needed restoring, was the priesthood. Well, that, and getting everybody back on the rails.
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Anna_Scott
Guest
KathleenGee,
While I do not know what book you picked up in the store, I will say that the idea of Protestants being the Catholic Church’s “whore daughters,” is quite consistent with Mormon writings.
Orson Pratt called Catholics and Protestants "nothing less than the “whore of Babylon.”
Pratt called the Catholic Church “mother of harlots,” and spoke of “Protestant daughters” as **“harlot daughters.” **
Mormon Apostle John Taylor also refered to “Babylon the great” as “mother of harlots” and Protestants as “lewd daughters.”
I see no difference between “whore daughters,” “harlot daughters,” and "lewd daughters."
Orson Pratt, “Divine Authenticity of the Book of Mormon,” (1850-1851)
"But we would inform the Catholics, that the Church of Christ has not ceased to exist, neither has Peter ceased his existence, but both the Church and Peter are in heaven, far out of the reach of the gates of hell, and far out of the reach of the abominable soul-destroying impositions of popery.
The gates of hell have prevailed and will continue to prevail over the Catholic mother of harlots, and over all her Protestant daughters; but as for the apostolical Church of Christ, she rests secure in the mansion of eternal happiness, where she will remain until the apostate Catholic church, with all her popes and bishops, together with all her harlot daughters shall be hurled down to hell;
then it shall be said, “Rejoice over her thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her;” and then shall be “heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia: salvation, and glory, and honor, and power, unto the Lord our God; for true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.”
And again they shall say, “Alleluia,” and her smoke shall rise up for ever and ever. And thus when the Catholics and Protestants hear all the heavens, and all the holy apostles and prophets, rejoicing over the downfall of Babylon, they will learn that the Church of Christ still exists in heaven and that the gates of hell have not prevailed against her; then they will learn where the apostolical and prophetical power rests; then they will perceive the difference between the glory of the Church of Christ and the misery and wretchedness of their own fiery torments."
Apostle Orson Pratt The Seer, Vol.2, No.4, p.255
"Both **Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the “whore of Babylon” **whom the Lord denounces… as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. And any person who shall be so wicked as to receive a holy ordinance of the gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent of the unholy and impious act. . . .
Apostle John Taylor, Times and Seasons, Vol.6, No.1, p.811
"The present Christian world exists and continues by division. The MYSTERY of Babylon the great, is mother of harlots and abominations of the earth, and it needs no prophetic vision, to unravel such mysteries. The old church is the mother, and the protestants are the lewd daughters. Alas! alas! what doctrine, what principle, or what scheme, in all, what prayers, what devotion, or what faith,
since the fathers have fallen asleep,' has opened the heavens; has brought men into the presence of God; and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to an innumerable company of angels? The answer is, not any: There is none in all christendom that doeth good; no, not one.’Anna
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RebeccaJ
Guest
So in essence you are saying you don’t trust that the Apostles handed on all Jesus taught them, all Jesus gave them, including the priesthood. Nope, they were derelict, asleep, thinking none of it was important?
Gotcha.
Maybe someday you’ll be able to see this is a lie.
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catholic-rcia
Guest
I have always felt that Protestants are my brothers and sisters, some more harsh on the Catholic Church than others…so what, as we all believe in the same God. We all fall short, we all have judgments against one another, we all sin in one way or another.
I always stick up for my Protestant friends in Christ when a Mormon says its either Mormonism or Catholicism, that Protestants don’t have a leg to stand on.
I always have to tell then that we all believe in the same God and worship the same Jesus. This quiets them down, although I would like to talk to them more I have to draw the line clearly.
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zerinus
Guest
Did you notice the date of that publication? In those days the whole of America was anti-Catholic; and some Mormons got carried away by that sentiment. But it has never been the official position of the LDS Church; and it is not so now.
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dianaiad
Guest
Now that IS a strawman. “In Essence” I am saying no such thing. In fact, I’m saying that they DID hand on all Jesus taught them and all Jesus gave them–including the priesthood. However, where does it say anywhere in the bible or anyplace else that Jesus was done talking?
The very fact that He DID appear to Paul is conclusive proof that He was not done talking to His apostles, or done calling them. It is proof that God continues to do things the way He has always done things.
But…just as the choices of the people have consequences…bad ones that cause rifts between God and His people (HOW many times did God make covenants with His chosen people only to have them break them?), so did the freely chosen actions of the people in the very early church cause such a break. Not all of them by any means, but certainly enough, and certainly sufficient to lose the priesthood.
The very fact that the idea of further public revelation that resulted in scripture was dismissed is indicative of this.
That is our claim.
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Anna_Scott
Guest
This post is for Kathleen’s benefit. I was disturbed to see how she was treated over her account of what she read in a book she picked up.
I have had many long discussions and debates on a number of Mormon Threads in the past, including discussions of my experiences in the Mormon Church. I have no desire to do it all over, again. The same issues are rehashed, over and over. Nothing really changes.
So, please do not be offended, if I do not respond to comments.
God Bless and Happy New Year to All!
I have had many long discussions and debates on a number of Mormon Threads in the past, including discussions of my experiences in the Mormon Church. I have no desire to do it all over, again. The same issues are rehashed, over and over. Nothing really changes.
So, please do not be offended, if I do not respond to comments.
God Bless and Happy New Year to All!
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dianaiad
Guest
Really?
Exactly how WAS she treated that would disturb someone?
Remember, she claimed that she had gone to a Deseret Bookstore, picked up “The Pearl of Great Price,” and read many diatribes against Catholicism in it, using a specific term ‘whoredaughters.’ She also claimed that she went back to the store two weeks later and found that the clerks had never heard of “The Pearl of Great Price,” and had actually pulled it from their shelves. As well, she claimed that she had called the church authorities in SLC, where THEY denied knowing anything about “The Pearl of Great Price.”
She was never accused of lying about it…in fact, I was very careful not to do that, since I don’t think she was, at least mostly. However, she WAS mistaken: she obviously confused something she read with something she picked up at Deseret Books. I also took issue with her assumption that since she couldn’t find the book when she went back, and the clerks denied any knowledge of it, that the only possible reason was that they had ‘pulled’ the book out of embarrassment. Since the accusation she made, if left unchallenged, is rather damaging to our faith, you should not be surprised that it WAS challenged–and in doing so, proved untrue.
The Pearl of Great Price does not contain any such language. In fact, the Pearl of Great Price doesn’t refer to Catholicism at all. There is no way that Deseret Bookstore clerks would deny knowledge of “The Pearl of Great Price,” since it is one of the four Standard Works of the church. For the same reason, the church authorities in SLC would also recognize the book. There is no way that any Deseret Book store would 'pull" “The Pearl of Great Price.” It would be like a Catholic book store pulling the Douay-Rheims.
There were, a hundred and fifty years ago, several church leaders who referred to the Catholic church as “The whore of Babylon,” and the Protestant churches which broke away from them as “daughters of whores,” or “Whore’s daughters.” This has never been official church doctrine, though…and over the last century those who used this sort of language were told to cut it out. Bruce R. McConkie, who put something very similar in his first edition of “Mormon Doctrine” was very firmly told to remove that language in future editions because—well—it’s not Mormon Doctrine.
It would be difficult for any book store clerk to NOT remember a book they were told to pull because it contained offensive language…but she claims that those clerks had no idea what she was talking about. Which is it? Did they pull an offensive book that was NOT “The Pearl of Great Price,” or did they have no knowledge of a book that contained that sort of language? Either way, the book she claimed to have seen there was not there when she went back. I guarantee that “The Pearl of Great Price” was, though.
So we have a mystery. What did she read? Where did she get it? What was the name?
What she read was anti-Catholic rhetoric that used the term ‘whoredaughters…’ a term that so impressed her that she remembered it specifically, and used it more than once.
The problem is, while the terms that Pratt and his contemporaries used meant the same thing, they were NOT the same thing: not 'whoredaughters." It makes very little sense that someone would simply use that term when another, more common, one was the one actually used; I suspect that “whoredaughters” actually is the term she read, and it stuck in her mind. It would anybody’s.
But Mormons never used it. However, current anti-Catholics DO use that specific term. Given some of the other things Kathleen said about what she read, and comparing them to the rhetoric used by these current anti-Catholics, it seems pretty obvious that she read something like that, from one of those sources; she wouldn’t have seen that stuff from a current Mormon source.
She finally, in a throwaway allusion, admitted that she couldn’t find the offending language in the current edition of “The Pearl of Great Price,” but she still sticks by her claim that she got the book at Deseret, that it contained that specific language, that neither the clerks nor the church authorities recognized the book SHE claimed was “The Pearl of Great Price,” and that the book was ‘pulled’ because the church was embarrassed by it.
What book? How could she know that the clerks didn’t recognize it if she didn’t know the name of it? why did she come to the conclusion that it was ‘pulled’ when the clerks didn’t know what she was talking about? How could she honestly still claim that the Deseret Book store clerks and the church authorities would not have recognized “The Pearl of Great Price?”
Her original mistake is understandable; completely. It’s not a fault…and I have a private theory about what happened that does not put her in any sort of negative light. However, even though it has been utterly proven that she was mistaken, she still holds to her position.
It’s her right to do so, of course…but when she does, if a Mormon (like me) reacts badly to it, one cannot be upset at the MORMON. In this instance she has been treated rather kindly. One cannot expect, when one makes that sort of accusation, to be greated with standing ovations by the folks she is accusing. The most one can hope for in a situation like that is to be corrected as kindly as possible.
…as she was.
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KathleenGee
Guest
Sigh…
After reading your posts, Dianaid…I assumed the book was pulled, perhaps because of my phone call and you said those books were of past were pulled, I was drawing then from what you said when I answered here, may be they pulled the book…I am sure the clerks knew the books and knew which ones contained which materials…I simply remember when first coming in, I was drawn to the book because of the title, but when I opened it up, it wasn’t the same. I can’t remember if it was in that one…I also glanced at some Mormon doctrine books with either black or dark royal blue covers…and there was a phrase used, ‘psshta’ or something like that…wondered if it was an older version…are there older versions of the Pearl of Great Price that insert Pratt’s writings?
When I came back to see after my phone call to SLC to see who wrote the book, but couldn’t find it, and went back home not speaking to anyone…I didn’t know the outward form, but looked for the inside writings of the book, not asking for help by the clerks…
I saw harlot and used whore because that is the word most used today, and I don’t want to expound on who uses it or to whom it is stereotyped…I have experienced it by other sources…and the word came out. I thought I read ‘the protestants are her whore daughters…’ Harlot or whore or saying there was no Christianity after the apostles are all the same to me…but I forgive and move on…
After reading your posts, Dianaid…I assumed the book was pulled, perhaps because of my phone call and you said those books were of past were pulled, I was drawing then from what you said when I answered here, may be they pulled the book…I am sure the clerks knew the books and knew which ones contained which materials…I simply remember when first coming in, I was drawn to the book because of the title, but when I opened it up, it wasn’t the same. I can’t remember if it was in that one…I also glanced at some Mormon doctrine books with either black or dark royal blue covers…and there was a phrase used, ‘psshta’ or something like that…wondered if it was an older version…are there older versions of the Pearl of Great Price that insert Pratt’s writings?
When I came back to see after my phone call to SLC to see who wrote the book, but couldn’t find it, and went back home not speaking to anyone…I didn’t know the outward form, but looked for the inside writings of the book, not asking for help by the clerks…
I saw harlot and used whore because that is the word most used today, and I don’t want to expound on who uses it or to whom it is stereotyped…I have experienced it by other sources…and the word came out. I thought I read ‘the protestants are her whore daughters…’ Harlot or whore or saying there was no Christianity after the apostles are all the same to me…but I forgive and move on…
Stephen168
New member
Christ and The Twelve taught the Apostles; and the Apostles taught the Bishops; and the Bishops taught the next generation of Bishops, and the next…down to my local Bishop.Uh huh.
And who wrote Hebrews?
Hint: it wasn’t Jesus. Therefore we have a problem, ESPECIALLY since it seems that Paul wrote Hebrews. (There is some question about that…but let’s go with Paul writing Hebrews, because it works better to support my point.)
We have Paul telling us that a: God used to speak through prophets…but that now b: God sent His Son, who is doing the talking. However, c:** Paul never met Jesus in life. HE knew the words of Jesus through the words of his fellow apostles** and through direct revelation from Jesus after the crucifixion and resurrection.** Having learned of Christ through those things (the apostles** and direct revelation)** he is now teaching US.**
Stephen168
New member
Polygamy?
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dianaiad
Guest
How could you be sure? You tell us here that you never spoke to them.
Nope. “The Pearl of Great Price” is as it has always been, and has never contained any of Pratt’s writings. …and believe me, “psshta” rings no bells with me, at all.
This raises a few questions.
Ok, here’s the thing, Kathleen…I’m really curious here. Please do not think that I am attacking you for this, because I’m not. I truly do believe you; you saw that language somewhere. I’m trying to dig down to where; not just for the sake of those who might be reading, but for yours; wouldn’t you like to know who really DOES use this sort of language in books that you are likely to run into TODAY?
Wouldn’t you like to know that in this case, at least, it’s not the Mormons? (shrug) I would, if the shoe were on the other foot. Of course, in my case the shoe IS on the other foot. Catholics say far nastier things about us than we do about them. Your own posts are pretty full of insulting charges and namecalling, y’know–and I’m getting really tired of having all this name calling justified because a few of our leaders, a century and a half ago, bought into the cultural attitude toward Catholics at the time. They were incorrect then, and the church has been clamping down and correcting such incorrect verbiage for the last full century. I wish that Catholicism did the same for Mormons, but you don’t.
As for the specific word ‘whoredaughters…" it’s a linguistic fingerprint. It is a favorite word used by modern anti-Catholic ranters all over the internet, and can be found in many different, and very objectionable, publications, both print and virtual. Identifying it is a little like identifying an accent or a dialectical phrase–or a regional ‘saying’ specific to a group of people. It means the same thing as "harlot’s daughters,’ or “whore’s daughters’ or any of the other phrases used by Pratt and company—I"ve never said other wise. However, ‘meaning the same’ does NOT mean 'the same.”
If you hear the phrases “I’d like to thank all of you for coming.” and “Thank y’all for coming,” you would know two things: first, that the two speakers were thanking everyone for coming—and that one is a northerner and one is from the south. The expressions mean the same thing, but the words used identify the speaker pretty specifically. It’s the same with ‘whoredaughters.’ That word might mean the same as "daughters of harlots,’ or ‘whore’s daughters,’ but it’s never been used by a Mormon speaker/writer. No fingerprint there, in other words.
I am extremely curious; we know now that the book you looked at was NOT the Pearl of Great Price. So…what was it? Where did you read it? Why, if you got it from Deseret Books, wasn’t it there two weeks later? What book was it you asked about, since it couldn’t have been the Pearl of Great Price? I wish you could remember the name, darn it. Knowing that would answer so many questions…
Stephen168
New member
Blood atonement?
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KathleenGee
Guest
Dianaid,
I responded to this post to bear truth to an experience I inadvertedly stumbled upon. do you know what I mean by inadvertent?
I did not enter Deseret to find material to dispute or come into this in a winner/looser mentality. This experience came out when I entered this thread. I went there to Deseret to find common ground because of the very nice Mormon people I met.
That is why the onus is on your church to publish such things in the first place…a beginning church invalidating others that contradicts the general mindset of how Christianity began in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ Who is the fulfullment of all creation.
You took things I said out of context…Responding to your comments that your church is removing such texts…I assumed that is what happened to this one when I reported it to your church. I assumed it was removed because I identified the location.
Furthermore, I never spoke to any clerks. I remember where I saw it. It wasn’t there the second time. I looked more and couldn’t find it and went home.
Whores is the word that harlot was. They are used interchangeably in the last century or two referring to my church. Not good. And for a church just beginning, I see alot of name calling in that…I appreciate your time taken to share the post about the Pearl of Great Price…I did not see the reference until later.
I remember seeing that phrase, ‘psshta’ or whatever…and simply wondered if Mormons knew its source…it appeared to be old language. That is all.
I wish you would understand where we are coming from, the invalidation we experience in the denial of our faith, and the lack of understanding to understand Catholicism from our sources. I read a sharing by a Mormon who went to Italy on a mission and did work in front of a cathedral…and how her conscience bothered her in invalidating these people’s faith.
I also see it very strange to spend so much time on this experience of mine
How many Mormons go into a Catholic bookstore to put aside what they have heard of Catholicism and come to see it for itself?
I responded to this post to bear truth to an experience I inadvertedly stumbled upon. do you know what I mean by inadvertent?
I did not enter Deseret to find material to dispute or come into this in a winner/looser mentality. This experience came out when I entered this thread. I went there to Deseret to find common ground because of the very nice Mormon people I met.
That is why the onus is on your church to publish such things in the first place…a beginning church invalidating others that contradicts the general mindset of how Christianity began in spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ Who is the fulfullment of all creation.
You took things I said out of context…Responding to your comments that your church is removing such texts…I assumed that is what happened to this one when I reported it to your church. I assumed it was removed because I identified the location.
Furthermore, I never spoke to any clerks. I remember where I saw it. It wasn’t there the second time. I looked more and couldn’t find it and went home.
Whores is the word that harlot was. They are used interchangeably in the last century or two referring to my church. Not good. And for a church just beginning, I see alot of name calling in that…I appreciate your time taken to share the post about the Pearl of Great Price…I did not see the reference until later.
I remember seeing that phrase, ‘psshta’ or whatever…and simply wondered if Mormons knew its source…it appeared to be old language. That is all.
I wish you would understand where we are coming from, the invalidation we experience in the denial of our faith, and the lack of understanding to understand Catholicism from our sources. I read a sharing by a Mormon who went to Italy on a mission and did work in front of a cathedral…and how her conscience bothered her in invalidating these people’s faith.
I also see it very strange to spend so much time on this experience of mine
How many Mormons go into a Catholic bookstore to put aside what they have heard of Catholicism and come to see it for itself?
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KathleenGee
Guest
To clarify…I meant to say I am not sure what the clerks knew or not of the books…because I doubt they have read all the books in the store…and you inferred as other sources have said, that the Mormons were removing texts
How many times have I rehashed this with you?
How many times did I tell you that I went back to find out what it really was?
How many times?
What is with you anyway???
How many times have I rehashed this with you?
How many times did I tell you that I went back to find out what it really was?
How many times?
What is with you anyway???
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dianaiad
Guest
I didn’t think you had, Kathleen. Nor have I accused you of any such intent.
Kathleen, we are Mormons. You are a Catholic. Any Christian who is not a Catholic is going to disagree with something about Catholicism. That disagreement is ALWAYS going to be seen as an insult to Catholicism by some Catholics. So of course, when you went into the Deseret Bookstore, you must have expected to see things that differ from your beliefs, just as I expect to see different viewpoints in here, or in a ‘Sign of the Fish’ bookstore here in town. Different denominations, different belief systems…different beliefs.
But you are here claiming that you read something you could not possibly have read in a book that never contained such language, and now you are telling me that it’s my job to prove that it didn’t? Well, I think that has been proven.
Why do you think I took anything out of context? I thought I was being very careful, actually, NOT to do this. As for assuming that your phone call to SLC about “The Pearl of Great Price” and their not knowing anything about it would result in the local Deseret Book store pulling that volume…
not very likely.
It IS possible, I suppose, that if you saw planted anti-Catholic/anti-Mormon literature in the store that shouldn’t have been there, that the store would have pulled it upon being notified, but if so, they would have had to know the title of the book, (especially since it obviously was NOT ‘The Pearl of Great Price’) and the clerks would have remembered such a phone call, and the material they ‘pulled.’ I think you are doing some very interesting assuming here.
…except that you said you asked the clerks and they said they hadn’t heard of it.
)
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dianaiad
Guest
Yes, “whores” and “harlot” mean pretty much the same thing…just as “all of you” and “y’all” mean the same thing. As I mentioned, however, just as a northerner would say 'all of you," and a southerner would say ‘y’all’…and NOT vice versa, so the early Mormons used “whores” and “daughters of whores…” and NOT “whoredaughters” wherease modern anti-Catholics do use that specific term exactly the way you did. this is what led me to think that you did indeed see that specific term somewhere, and it stuck in your memory. However, you did NOT read that specific term in an LDS authored publication in a Deseret Bookstore. It’s just a clue, Kathleen.
It’s definitely ‘whatever.’ I don’t recognize it at all. I wish you could remember it more clearly.
How many Catholics understand that the sort of language they use to describe Mormons and Mormonism, right down to denying our very Christianity, is exactly the denial of our faith, mockery and insult that you find in our simple statement that you guys are wrong, and that the church needed restoring? Why is it OK for you to be this insulting and dismissive of us, but WE must be very careful not to offend you by claiming the very foundation of our beliefs–that God DID call a modern day prophet because Christianity in general had apostasized to the point that it needed guiding back to the right path? After all, you certainly believe that Catholicism is the Only True Church–and that in and of itself is a denial that any other church can possibly be ‘true.’ Shouldn’t we, then, be as outraged at THAT as you are at our claim that WE have the 'only true church?"
Or, as usual, is a double standard alive and screaming here?
I spend 'so much time" on this experience of yours because it made such an impression upon you; so much so that your entire opinion of us was shaped by it in many ways. I can’t help but consider that, now that you know that there are some problems with the way you remember it, you would revisit the issue for yourself, to see what really DID happen.
Because it’s obvious that what really happened was not even close to the way you remember it.
I honestly believe that if you could think back, or revisit the experience, you would remember it differently. Perhaps you got hold of “The Godmakers” or something. (shrug
K
KathleenGee
Guest
I am using my son’s gummy old keyboard…my server was going in and out…you didn’t see my post…I say I did NOT speak to any clerks…I assume the book was pulled as I Id’d it to your church…you jumped on everything I said…
I came into one of your stores because of the nice people I met in your church. I had been deeply hurt by people in my own church when I came here…I inadvertently came across perceptions that people that invited themselves into my organization were doing shady things…when I found out my perceptions were correct, they went on a campaign to oust me. They successfully labelled me…to others in this diocese and the one woman went to many priests about me…hardly anyone knew me…I found out that the woman was indeed involved with wicca…I had to go to an archdiocesan exorcist who confirmed both myself and my family were being cursed. I would never wish anything on anyone. Since then some people who were defending her because of my convictions ran into me last year…10 years later…and the first response they gave me…was the woman was evil.
I had to stay low for about 7 years. And that is when I met these Mormon people, their friendship and it was one of the means God used to heal me as I was psychologically and emotionally and spiritually wounded…I never thought anyone could have any such power over me. Then the archbishop called the priest back who had directed and counseled me and the woman had fractured our relationship as well. We reconciled and then just 2 years ago the priest who had sided with her and removed me now affirmed me…long time…
So I really liked these Mormon people, and we had our house refinanced through them. So for very deep reasons, that is why I wanted to find out more what they think and not hearsay…with the intent to build bridges.
Things are pretty much renewed now after 20 years being in this state. I had to go to church in a town 8 miles from me as so many things trigger that experience. I was so welcomed…it is taking my kids some time to heal and they don’t trust church people, they openly cried for me when I was continually being slammed down for speaking the truth and trying to protect other people from what I had experienced.
The devil is very powerful right now…he is the father of lies. And we must all work for God and be in Him and listen to others when they tell you something is false. I felt betrayed when I read passages of the book…I also scanned the Mormon doctrine book and saw references to mainline Christianity. I left and then saw more indepths studies of Joseph Smith. He is a fraud. A seducer of women, he made things up…he could have been visited by a false angel…
I came on here to share the truth and to seek truth in the goodness of other people…but I also shared what I found in your store…I only came on now to clarify some minor points to be truthful, as with the nature of how this whole experience spinned out and recalling this experience in this difficult time in my life brought back my own sense of fragilitly…I didn’t want to get into it with you…I let you vent.
There are a number of Mormon doctrines that mainline Christianity does not see as truth let alone the materials in that store.
Jesus Christ is the face of God and He has been fully revealed, and the construct of our faith and Sacred Tradition is Jesus lived, died for us and resurrected from the dead…to break the power of sin and death over our lives and to give us new life in Him…not that we got it right or we are better than everybody else and we are the saints.
The whole construct of Mormonism is our faith is corrupt…it isn’t real. How invalidating is that? What do you expect people to do when you come to a Catholic site? accept ideas we know aren’t true?
Highly educated people come through, experts, and people don’t even realize who they are or even grasp what they are saying…you can’t bridge Mormonism and Christianity in many issues.
I came into one of your stores because of the nice people I met in your church. I had been deeply hurt by people in my own church when I came here…I inadvertently came across perceptions that people that invited themselves into my organization were doing shady things…when I found out my perceptions were correct, they went on a campaign to oust me. They successfully labelled me…to others in this diocese and the one woman went to many priests about me…hardly anyone knew me…I found out that the woman was indeed involved with wicca…I had to go to an archdiocesan exorcist who confirmed both myself and my family were being cursed. I would never wish anything on anyone. Since then some people who were defending her because of my convictions ran into me last year…10 years later…and the first response they gave me…was the woman was evil.
I had to stay low for about 7 years. And that is when I met these Mormon people, their friendship and it was one of the means God used to heal me as I was psychologically and emotionally and spiritually wounded…I never thought anyone could have any such power over me. Then the archbishop called the priest back who had directed and counseled me and the woman had fractured our relationship as well. We reconciled and then just 2 years ago the priest who had sided with her and removed me now affirmed me…long time…
So I really liked these Mormon people, and we had our house refinanced through them. So for very deep reasons, that is why I wanted to find out more what they think and not hearsay…with the intent to build bridges.
Things are pretty much renewed now after 20 years being in this state. I had to go to church in a town 8 miles from me as so many things trigger that experience. I was so welcomed…it is taking my kids some time to heal and they don’t trust church people, they openly cried for me when I was continually being slammed down for speaking the truth and trying to protect other people from what I had experienced.
The devil is very powerful right now…he is the father of lies. And we must all work for God and be in Him and listen to others when they tell you something is false. I felt betrayed when I read passages of the book…I also scanned the Mormon doctrine book and saw references to mainline Christianity. I left and then saw more indepths studies of Joseph Smith. He is a fraud. A seducer of women, he made things up…he could have been visited by a false angel…
I came on here to share the truth and to seek truth in the goodness of other people…but I also shared what I found in your store…I only came on now to clarify some minor points to be truthful, as with the nature of how this whole experience spinned out and recalling this experience in this difficult time in my life brought back my own sense of fragilitly…I didn’t want to get into it with you…I let you vent.
There are a number of Mormon doctrines that mainline Christianity does not see as truth let alone the materials in that store.
Jesus Christ is the face of God and He has been fully revealed, and the construct of our faith and Sacred Tradition is Jesus lived, died for us and resurrected from the dead…to break the power of sin and death over our lives and to give us new life in Him…not that we got it right or we are better than everybody else and we are the saints.
The whole construct of Mormonism is our faith is corrupt…it isn’t real. How invalidating is that? What do you expect people to do when you come to a Catholic site? accept ideas we know aren’t true?
Highly educated people come through, experts, and people don’t even realize who they are or even grasp what they are saying…you can’t bridge Mormonism and Christianity in many issues.
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