Mormon Author's Video on Catholicism vs. Mormonism

[CatholicGuyNY]

On priesthood qualifications: I believe I touched upon the Biblical support, but if not enough then look to my latest book. As a summary: The Lord requires faith and worthiness in the men he calls to the priesthood. The Lord uses the foolish and weak things of the world to accomplish his work (1 Corinthians 1:27). There are instances in the scriptures where specific requirements have been given to hold an office in the priesthood. For example, Paul provided counsel to Titus about elders who are married (an “elder” is an office in the Melchizedek Priesthood). Paul said that elders are only to have one wife and faithful children (Titus 1:5-6). Paul also gave specific counsel to Timothy on the requirements of a bishop (an office in the Aaronic Priesthood, but an office typically held by Melchizedek Priesthood holders as high priests), ensuring the individual was faithful and worthy to serve (1 Timothy 3;1-7). I know of a few men in my Catholic days who wanted very badly to become a priest, but could not handle the “academic rigor.” I spent several days shadowing seminarians in my early 20’s and came to that same conclusion. Too much school for a job that really requires a good heart more than an educated mind. My own opinion of course – as I state in the book continually.

See above. Perhaps this may be true for LDS ministers, however Catholics expect their ministers to know the ins and outs of the Bible, the 2000 year history of the Faith, Canon Law, and all of the liturgies of the Church. In my reading, I have found that Catholicism has a much more complex sacramental practice and liturgy than Mormonism, hence the further need to have ministers trained in such matters. Since the liturgy has developed throughout history, is Biblically based, etc., it is further necesary to have ministers understand why they are doing and saying the things they are doing, hence the need for the study of history and Scripture (including in Greek and Hebrew, languages used in Catholicism).

Remember that the LDS Church is only 180 years old. Catholicism is over 1000 years old. There is simply much more to be understood about its history and development of beliefs, which ought to be known by those representing the Faith as ordained ministers, hence the need for formal seminary programs.

And to emphasize: Catholicism firmly teaches that one needs to be called of God either personally or through someone with authority, to the priesthood.

On the unpaid ministry: I believe this is well understood and respected. It is a difference of opinion, but clearly a ministry does not need to be paid and most would agree that when ministry becomes a job there are several issues that can arise from that. Churches from all over the world come to Salt Lake to understand more about how the priesthood is administered and how the Church can do so much with a lay ministry. Again, I believe the record will speak for itself and what I was trying to get across in the book was just that. Remember Jason, there are paid ministers in the LDS Church (a very, very small percentage at the international level). However, at the local level no one is paid.

Yes, I’m aware of the paid ministers in the LDS church. The problem here is when certain LDS attempt to criticize the practice of having paid ministers, as if it is “not of God”. It is certainly interesting to me that above you state that there are paid ministers in the LDS church when in your book, as I’ve quoted before, you state that the Bible speaks against paid ministers, in an attempt to bolster the LDS practice. There is nothing wrong with having unpaid ministers, however there is also nothing wrong with having paid ministers. As I’ve already shown, what the Bible preaches against is people that become priests for the money, which is not the same thing as compensating priests. I also already cited verses that support compensated ministers.

Who are the “most” that would agree that where ministry becomes a job there are issues? Perhaps this is because you’re ascribing a negative connotation to “job” (some do this when comparing “job” to “career”, for example). Catholic priests have a divine calling and devote their entire lives to the service of God and His people. I don’t see this as being the same thing as a 9-5 job.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

eshuster, answer this question from a me, a man in his thirties, not married, who joined the “True” church a few years ago. Do you know how hard it is to be in this “True” church as a single? If this is the true church then why is it so tough on singles? Why do single feel like they are on the outside looking in? Why the big pressure to marry? It’s not just pressure, it’s strong pressure. Can a single person find peace on this earth in the LDS church? I say no. I sure have not. Have I found things I’ve loved? Yes. But to me it’s a church for married couples. I don’t get that feeling with the Catholic church. I doubt there are any other church’s that depress singles like the LDS church.

 

[KathleenGee]

Eschuster,

Soren1 has the most credential knowledge here on CAF on the Catholic priesthood. He has been scoffed at a few times by secular professionals who consider themselves superior in responding to his posts in debates with Mormons evangelizing here.

I do not like the construct of Mormonism which is in itself false and bigoted regarding its stand on Catholicism.

The problems you see of the Catholic priesthood are those primarily in highly sexualized cultures as ours. It is also the reason why Americans are obsessed with pedophilic priests because the celibate priesthood is not getting sex.

There were the same scandals when the Catholic clergy was allowed to marry. And people then were fed up and did not want to financially support the consequences of their lifestyles…as there were priests as well who were celibate.

The other problem with the state of the priesthood is that the Catholic laity has grown lax and materialistic, not praying and doing penance for our priests and our world. The spirituality of the Cross was not covered enough in catechetics nor the minors given enough support in high school to be convinced of their confirmation as nothing more than just being nice and have a team spirit and work together well.

The Mormons have a fantastic youth formation. For us, the bishops put out a pastoral letter to help our youth, and it essentially would require the change of our entire parish culture to evolve it into one that nurtures our young.

Somehow my entire life, I always had faith in the Eucharist and never deviated. Why others deviate from the Church, even with all their reasons why, it is a mystery…we are all on the journey…

 

[eshuster]

My dear friends. Thank you for conversing with me in this forum. I had no intentions of being here as long as I did as I have never found such interactions to be productive. They serve mainly for people to prove they are right and to accuse others who do not share their belief to be wrong. It is the nature of forums and it is not likely to change into the foreseeable future. I can spend hours answering each of you, but I don’t believe it will make a bit of difference for me to do so. I find my time better spent in ministering to others one on one or writing more books to help others understand the gospel of Jesus Christ. No offense, your passion has you pretty much set and there is nothing I will write or say to change your minds. No worries, I am the same. Those of us in these forums are on the fringe and that is our nature.

Thanks to the many who sent me personal forum messages and sought me out on the web to send me email. Your inquiries are appreciated and hopefully we can continue our correspondence in a less distracting environment. I will try to answer you as I can – be patient. There is much to learn and we have time to do it.

If there was a bottom line to all of this it would be to ask yourself what is the real purpose of a church and what should be the result of following true doctrine in Jesus Christ? Christ said by their fruits ye shall know them (speaking of prophets), but we can assume such an admonition can extend to the people of a particular faith community as well.

Catholics claim faith in Jesus Christ, belief in their Church and its doctrine as being true, and faith in its leaders as being called of God.

Mormons claim faith in Jesus Christ, belief in their Church and its doctrine as being true, and faith in its leaders as being called of God.

How can we measure which one is really true? Of course this is difficult as faith is qualitative, interpretation of scripture and theology is subjective, and absolute confirmation is impossible.

However, we can look at quantitative data as being a leading indicator of how faithful a Church’s people are; how well the doctrines they believe are bearing fruit; and the effectiveness of the Church’s leaders in inspiring their people.

For this we turn to the National Survey of Youth and Religion (NSYR), 2002-2003 from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and a Barna Group study in 2000/2001 which probed theological beliefs among adults in the US.

The results of both of these studies can be found at studychristianity.com/fruits_of_faith.html. You may also seek out the native data as you wish. If we simply compare the results between LDS and Roman Catholic youth, and LDS and Roman Catholic adults, one can see absolutely astounding differences in spirituality, faithfulness, and devotion. If we add on top of this the national statistics of Utah as compared to the rest of the nation we gain even greater fruits to compare.

If we look beyond LDS vs. Catholic numbers, the fact is that every other major Christian religion shows far better results for its youth and adults than does Catholicism.

Why?

Why are Catholics showing such weak numbers in these studies?

Folks – these results are hard data. There is no interpretation of scriptures here, not arguing about which religion is true or not; this data is plain and simple and does not lie.
By their fruits ye will know them. This is walking the walk, not just talking the talk.
This is why I didn’t run from Catholicism, I ran to Mormonism. I ran to a denomination of Christianity that is bearing fruit like no other Christian Church is today. Please excuse this appearance of boasting, but I am trying to get a point across.

Look at the data and see for yourself. If Mormonism wasn’t true then we as a people would not be bearing this good fruit and would be doing evil in the world. That is the bottom line. If the LDS Church was of Satan, then these results would be different – why would Satan have his children do such wonderful things? A house divided cannot stand, and therefore it would make no sense.

We can go round and round and round about who is right in this and who is right in that. At the end of the day we will go nowhere; however, with this data we can end the discussion and see where the true results of faith in Christ can how that compares between our two beloved Christian Churches.

All the best to each of you in your faith journey. If you remain Catholic, then be the very best Catholic you can be. If you choose to follow a different path in Christ, then God bless you in that path.

Eric Shuster
www.ericshuster.com

 

[eshuster]

My testimony as a parting thought:

I am a Christian.

I have been a Christian all of my life.

I believe in God the Father—omnipotent and omnipresent—who is pure love, mercy, charity, truth, faith, and judgment, having all power and knowledge and from whom all good things come.

I believe that His son Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary, was crucified on Calvary, was resurrected, and today sits at the right hand of God our Father. I know Jesus Christ is my Savior and my Redeemer and through the grace of His Atonement and resurrection I can be forgiven of my sins and given the opportunity to return to my Heavenly Father in the eternities as a joint heir with Christ—a resurrected and exalted being according to the scriptures.

I believe in worshipping and praying to God my Heavenly Father, just as Jesus Christ so aptly demonstrated throughout His ministry in setting the perfect example of prayer.

I believe in worshipping Jesus Christ as the only begotten son of God, ending all my prayers to the Father in His name, and taking upon me His name in truth and righteousness.

I believe in the gifts of, and in praying and worshipping under the inspiration and power of, the Holy Ghost, who together with God the Father and Jesus Christ form the Godhead—three distinct beings with a perfect oneness that defies all human comprehension.

I believe God is the great I Am and not the great I was, and as such He has blessed us with living oracles on the earth today in Apostles and Prophets, and in an open canon of the Holy Scriptures as the everlasting word of God.

I believe in community worship and have selected among the many thousands of Christian denominations in the world today the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as my own Christian faith community.

I believe that Jesus Christ leads His Church from His throne in the heavens and will come again to reign personally on earth where His kingdom will have no end.

I believe that both faith and works go hand in hand, with works being an accurate measure of one’s faith and love in the Lord Jesus Christ, and by which we will be judged as a testimony of our willingness to sacrifice and lose our lives in the service of God.

I believe family is the most important entity in the kingdom of God, and that through our love and faithfulness to the Lord Jesus Christ and His gospel we can return to our Father in Heaven and be together as families in the eternities.

I bear this solemn testimony in the holy name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Amen

Eric Shuster

 

[twopekinguys]

Bailing on us already?

You’ve posted the exact same thing on 3 threads. Stick around, learn something. That is what discussion is all about.

 

[PaulDupre]

My testimony as a parting thought:

(snip of tiresome rhetoric…)

I bear this solemn testimony in the holy name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Amen

Eric Shuster

This is the same kind of (Edited) testimony a missionary once bore to me when I was an investigator. That missionary later married my little sister. Even on their honeymoon, he cheated on her. He cheated on her for the next 25 years, all the time rising in the LDS heirarchy, and all the time denying it with great sincerity, even “bearing testimony in the name of Jesus” of his innocence. Joseph Smith would have been proud. Eventually my sister caught him in in the act and divorced him.

So don’t think your testimony will impress me. It does not.

With apologies to Samuel Johnson, “testimony is the last refuge of a scoundrel”.

 

[SirThomasMore]

My dear friends. Thank you for conversing with me in this forum. I had no intentions of being here as long as I did as I have never found such interactions to be productive.

Meaning you can;t defend what is indefensible, so it is best to cut and run

They serve mainly for people to prove they are right and to accuse others who do not share their belief to be wrong. It is the nature of forums and it is not likely to change into the foreseeable future. I can spend hours answering each of you, but I don’t believe it will make a bit of difference for me to do so. I find my time better spent in ministering to others one on one or writing more books to help others understand the gospel of Jesus Christ.

I pray that your future books are more accurate and honest than the one I read

Thanks to the many who sent me personal forum messages and sought me out on the web to send me email. Your inquiries are appreciated and hopefully we can continue our correspondence in a less distracting environment. I will try to answer you as I can – be patient. There is much to learn and we have time to do it.

Usually, people who post that they have heave had emails of support have not had those emails, they simply need to appear as if they have had an impact before they run

If there was a bottom line to all of this it would be to ask yourself what is the real purpose of a church and what should be the result of following true doctrine in Jesus Christ? Christ said by their fruits ye shall know them (speaking of prophets), but we can assume such an admonition can extend to the people of a particular faith community as well.

Based on the quotes we have posted from Joe, BY, Peterson, McKoinkie, etc., I would say the fruits of your CoLDS is not from God

However, we can look at quantitative data as being a leading indicator of how faithful a Church’s people are; how well the doctrines they believe are bearing fruit; and the effectiveness of the Church’s leaders in inspiring their people

.

Ah, so YOU choose the method of how to determine. Seems awfully self-serving. But, using your test, James Jones would be a winner…right? Mohammad seems to inspire…no, your test fails

For this we turn to the National Survey of Youth and Religion (NSYR), 2002-2003 from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and a Barna Group study in 2000/2001 which probed theological beliefs among adults in the US.

lol…I love it when people have lost their argument, so they search for statistics. Truly educated people refrain from using statistics because they know polls can be manipulated. I can find polls that show the LDS Church to be a horrible church with high suicide and drug use. But so what?

Folks – these results are hard data.

no. They are not. If we want to get into a battle of statistics, we can…the LDS Church, according to statisitcs, has a higher rate of suicide and drug use. Why?

There is no interpretation of scriptures here, not arguing about which religion is true or not; this data is plain and simple and does not lie.
By their fruits ye will know them. This is walking the walk, not just talking the talk.
This is why I didn’t run from Catholicism, I ran to Mormonism. I ran to a denomination of Christianity that is bearing fruit like no other Christian Church is today. Please excuse this appearance of boasting, but I am trying to get a point across.

You ran from truth to a church that was designed by a spirit other than God. If that is worth boasting about, then boast away

 

[SirThomasMore]

My testimony as a parting thought:

Quote:
I am a Christian.

Not if you are Mormon

I have been a Christian all of my life.

until you became Mormon

I believe in God the Father—omnipotent and omnipresent—who is pure love, mercy, charity, truth, faith, and judgment, having all power and knowledge and from whom all good things come.

and who used to be a sinful man, and is one of many gods. In other words, you do not believe in the God of the Bible, but the made-up god of Joe

I believe that His son Jesus Christ was born of the virgin Mary, was crucified on Calvary, was resurrected, and today sits at the right hand of God our Father. I know Jesus Christ is my Savior and my Redeemer and through the grace of His Atonement and resurrection I can be forgiven of my sins and given the opportunity to return to my Heavenly Father in the eternities as a joint heir with Christ—a resurrected and exalted being according to the scriptures.

And who is Satan’s big brother, is not all-powerful, who did not bring us salvation. In other words, not the True Jesus Christ.

I believe in worshipping and praying to God my Heavenly Father, just as Jesus Christ so aptly demonstrated throughout His ministry in setting the perfect example of prayer.

Including in a temple where secret signs and oaths are made, much like satanic worship, not anything like worshiping God.

I believe in the gifts of, and in praying and worshipping under the inspiration and power of, the Holy Ghost, who together with God the Father and Jesus Christ form the Godhead—three distinct beings with a perfect oneness that defies all human comprehension.

including angels of light who teach a different Gospel than the one from God…in other words, NOT from God.

I believe God is the great I Am and not the great I was, and as such He has blessed us with living oracles on the earth today in Apostles and Prophets, and in an open canon of the Holy Scriptures as the everlasting word of God.

No, you believe your god is the “Ordinary I was, god I became and when everyone else becomes a god, I will just be ordinary again”

believe in community worship and have selected among the many thousands of Christian denominations in the world today the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as my own Christian faith community

You chose a cult that did not come from God

I believe that Jesus Christ leads His Church from His throne in the heavens and will come again to reign personally on earth where His kingdom will have no end.

And then you can become a god and have lots of wives and your own planet

I bear this solemn testimony in the holy name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, Amen

Only, it is not in the name of THE Jesus Christ, but the one invented by Joe with help from his “angel of light”.

I am sorry to expose you and your church for what it is. I hope you cast off your pride and come back to the One True God.

 

[Michael_Francis]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[zaffiroborant]

In Mr Shusters (Edited) post, the one right before his “testimony”, he links to an article which ends with lists compiled from other sources where Catholics come out on the bottom in just about every area. What he fails to mention is that HE is the founder of the web-site, which is an LDS faith promoting web-site. Rather lacking in open honesty IMO.

It seems from Mr Shusters last posts he is leaving because he is unable to change our minds as he says here:

No offense, your passion has you pretty much set and there is nothing I will write or say to change your minds.

It appears Mr Shuster was not up-front with us in the beginning when he said:

We are here to learn and exchange ideas, not to convince one another of our beliefs.

From leaving when unable to convince others of his beliefs to bearing his testimony and linking to HIS pro-LDS it is quite obvious that he really had no intention of exchanging ideas, he was here to proselytize in spite of the forum rules against it.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Just so people know, those in the LDS church, particularly missionaries, have been told the best defense against attacks from non-LDS people is to give their testimony. They more or less admit they can’t defend themselves with scriptures, so they are told to just give their testimony. You can throw all the facts at them you want. They will say - “I know the Church is True because Heavenly Father told me! You pray about it too and ask God and see what he tells you!”

 

[Javl]

In Mr Shusters Catholic bashing post, the one right before his “testimony”, he links to an article which ends with lists compiled from other sources where Catholics come out on the bottom in just about every area. What he fails to mention is that HE is the founder of the web-site, which is an LDS faith promoting web-site. Rather lacking in open honesty IMO.

It seems from Mr Shusters last posts he is leaving because he is unable to change our minds as he says here:

It appears Mr Shuster was not up-front with us in the beginning when he said:

From leaving when unable to convince others of his beliefs to bearing his testimony and linking to HIS pro-LDS it is quite obvious that he really had no intention of exchanging ideas, he was here to proselytize in spite of the forum rules against it.

Shuster isn’t the only one. In my dealings with many of the SDA I find that they’re all of one mind, and that is to get you to their way of thinking and scripture interpretation. They rarely, if ever listen to your side. Many times they’ll just ignore you. I wonder if they do know that they’re not doing the work of God but causing dissension and alienation?

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[twopekinguys]

In Mr Shusters (Edited) post, the one right before his “testimony”, he links to an article which ends with lists compiled from other sources where Catholics come out on the bottom in just about every area. What he fails to mention is that HE is the founder of the web-site, which is an LDS faith promoting web-site. Rather lacking in open honesty IMO.

LOL, Busted!!

I saw on another thread where RebeccaJ had discovered that it was operated out of Provo UT,

It seems from Mr Shusters last posts he is leaving because he is unable to change our minds as he says here:

It is something we see quite often from those individual that think Catholics don’t know their faith. They become quite surprised and flustered when they find out that many do know their faith.

It appears Mr Shuster was not up-front with us in the beginning when he said:

I have more respect for someone that comes into a forum and says, “You’re wrong, but I’ll listen to your side”, than someone who says they are here for dialog, but aren’t.

From leaving when unable to convince others of his beliefs to bearing his testimony and linking to HIS pro-LDS it is quite obvious that he really had no intention of exchanging ideas, he was here to proselytize in spite of the forum rules against it.

I find it amazing that people will come to a faith based forum (this one or any other), and be so deceitful when they want to talk about the Lord.(Edited)

 

[CatholicGuyNY]

In Mr Shusters Catholic bashing post, the one right before his “testimony”, he links to an article which ends with lists compiled from other sources where Catholics come out on the bottom in just about every area. What he fails to mention is that HE is the founder of the web-site, which is an LDS faith promoting web-site. Rather lacking in open honesty IMO.

It seems from Mr Shusters last posts he is leaving because he is unable to change our minds as he says here:

It appears Mr Shuster was not up-front with us in the beginning when he said:

From leaving when unable to convince others of his beliefs to bearing his testimony and linking to HIS pro-LDS it is quite obvious that he really had no intention of exchanging ideas, he was here to proselytize in spite of the forum rules against it.

If you look at his first post, it seems as if he was here to promote his book, since he began posting here after it was mentioned. I assume he has some way of knowing when his book is mentioned on a website (I’ve noticed this elsewhere).

Either way, I’m glad that he posted here so that we could show his fundamental misunderstandings of what Catholic teaching and practice are.

 

[Michael_Francis]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)