Mormon Bishop Hunger Strike Over Church Youth Interview Policy

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Horton said:
I can’t imagine these parents being alright with some man asking their children these types of questions. Are they that brainwashed?
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Yes most LDS are extraordinarily trusting of bishops and senior leadership. They are groomed to be that way from the time they are kids-- to see church leaders as spokesmen for God, and therefore it would never occur to most of them to be wary of such things. Unquestioning obedience is a virtue. Clearly this naivety on the part of parents can be dangerous.
 
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Have these worthiness interviews changed dramatically since the early aughts when I was an LDS teenager? All I remember were a couple to a few questions about chastity being asked in passing among all the other questions. They usually amounted to “Do you keep the Law of Chastity?” and after you answered “yes” the bishop would qualify that with “and you do not masturbate?”. After answering “yes” to that he goes on about tithing, praying, sustaining the brethren, etc. Is it different now? Is it (and has it been) different for women? I can’t say I ever felt traumatized after such. In fact, I’d say I’ve had some Catholic confessions far more traumatic than that!
 
Horton said:
They won’t make changes because then they would have to admit they’ve been doing something wrong.
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In this case I think it would be very easy for them to make the changes because they could just use the present day environment as reason enough. But this protest would probably have to blow over first so they wouldn’t be seen as capitulating to a dissenter.
 
I’ve heard some stories about sexual assault occurring, which is horrible, but has it risen to systemic proportions like it has in some parts of the Catholic Church? I would think allowing a parent inside would be sufficient, or for the LDS Church to more stringently “correlate” the process and forbid bishops from spending an inordinate amount of time on sexuality questions.

To be frank, I’m very reluctant to go gung-ho against the LDS Church over the SOP of worthiness interviews all the while much of the world wants to see the Catholic Church abolish the seal of the confessional.
 
Men who want to exploit children in a sexual way can make this anything they want it to be. There seem to be no rules at all. You may have been fortunate to have a bishop who didn’t have sexual deviant thinking.

As far as confession, how could it be more traumatic when you, the penitent is doing the confessing, initiating the conversation, and the priest doing the listening? You choose what you say in confession, not the priest.
 
Horton said:
Men who want to exploit children in a sexual way can make this anything they want it to be. There seem to be no rules at all. You may have been fortunate to have a bishop who didn’t have sexual deviant thinking.
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Very true, which is why I’m curious to what extent this is a systemic problem, and to what extent the LDS Church has already taken steps to decrease the risk. The LDS Church is one of the most centralized religions I can think of; a total “top down” organization. Salt Lake micromanages the heck out of the local churches and everything including the signs for the local wards, the architecture of the buildings, the educational media for catechesis, etc. is produced and propagated by the Church’s central offices. I can’t imagine that the LDS Church hasn’t also “correlated” the worthiness interview, but maybe I’m wrong.
As far as confession, how could it be more traumatic when you, the penitent is doing the confessing, initiating the conversation, and the priest doing the listening? You choose what you say in confession, not the priest.
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In particular, I’ve had priests begin asking me ridiculously (and uncomfortably) specific details about my sins that did not weigh on the gravity or frequency of them. It seriously felt like the priest was fetishizing my confession. Granted I had a wonderful recourse that Mormons do not have: I got up, left the confessional mid-confession, and sought out another confessor. Mormons can’t just go to another Mormon bishop for a worthiness interview.
 
Typical deflection from the LDS. The thread is about the LDS youth interview policy and the very real problems it has caused. There are several other threads on these forums discussing the grand jury report. If that is what you wish to discuss, post on one of those forums.
 
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Deflection? you can’t be serious. If we’re talking about clergy’s time spent alone with youth the Catholic Church clearly has a MUCH bigger problem with this, and should have MUCH more to be worried about than the LDS Church. It’s not even in the same ball park.

Matthew 7:1-5 1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.
 
Horton is right. This thread is about an LDS bishop’s campaign to get the Mormon church to change its policies on the interviews of minors. It’s not about comparing each church’s sexual abuse crimes. There are plenty of threads on these forums that discuss the sexual abuse scandals in the Catholic Church. And you don’t know the extent to which these crimes have occurred in the LDS church because nobody has as yet launched investigations of any significant scope, so I would be careful about making any assumptions. The LDS church mostly flies under the radar of the American public. Not many pay attention to what’s going on within it unless they have some sort of connection with it.
 
Your response is totally inappropriate. I have nothing more to say to you.
 
thedweh said:
Lemuel, you have said many times on this forum that you left the LDS Church because you found out some things that you felt the Church was hiding from you and that you felt betrayed.
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Well, that’s just a lie. I have never said that was the reason I left the church.
 
this is what you said when you first came on this forum, before you changed your name to “Lemuel”

anon82300119
Sep '17


Well, my reasons for leaving were personal. But basically, I started studying the history of Mormonism and realized that I had been lied to all my life. It made me quite angry, to be honest. I felt betrayed. I wandered for a couple of years and was at a point where I wasn’t even sure if there was a God. Over time, I felt my heart drawing me back. I attended several different churches, even giving the Mormons another chance. Then I walked into a Catholic mass with my wife and have never looked back. I can only say that the Spirit was there in ways I have never experienced in my 60+ years of living. I’m on my way home.
 
Chris-Wa1 said:
Your response is totally inappropriate. I have nothing more to say to you.
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Chris,
I saw your thread shortly after you posted it. I thought it was just ugly gotcha trash and I decided to not respond.
That being said, your thread screamed for a comparison between the problems LDS face and the problems the Catholic Church faces. I wouldn’t point this out with the words that offended you, but your invitation clear.

There are three folks at work who care enough about their Catholicism that I know they have some connection to Catholicism.
One says he is interested in the gospel of 1st and 10. He is a Notre Dame grad and may or may not attend mass.
One attends mass each week, but brags that his parish is not like his parents parish. His parish has LGBT groups and he says they are are not judgmental like other parishes.
The other is a wonderful Catholic young man with 4 young children. He attends mass weekly at a conservative Hispanic parish (he is not Hispanic BTW). I have been telling him to not over react to recent revelations in the courts concerning Catholicism. He is quite upset with all of this.

I consider your thread to be anti-Mormon gotcha trash, but also myopic in the EXTREME for a Catholic in a Catholic forum.
Charity, TOm
 
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Then you have no idea of the extent of the sexual abuse within the LDS community, the church, scouts, and families. I worked in the criminal justice system in a predominantly LDS city. Bishops abusing boys and girls, fathers abuse their own children and then grandchildren being covered up by church courts. In scouts alone, the cover up of sexual abuse is right up there with the Catholic Church. You are blind if you don’t see it.

You all can deny it all you want, it’s typical for the LDS to not recognize the failings within their own organization. But it is there. I have spoken to the victims of the sexual abuse. I’ve seen daughters shunned by their families for daring to protect their daughter from grandpa. I have interviewed young men that have molested boys in scouts who were molested themselves by their LDS scout leaders for years. I’ve interviewed LDS victims who reports abuse to LDS leaders and were told to keep quiet, to not make trouble, or worse yet, were told how sinful they were for saying such things about a leader.

So get off the high & might train here. Your LDS organization is not as pristine as you seem to believe it is. It’s just the world doesn’t really care enough about it to go after it like they do the Catholic Church.
 
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Well, Tom, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I fully acknowledge that the Catholic Church has a huge problem with regards to the sexual abuse scandals. There needs to be a massive reckoning on this matter. I hope every guilty priest and bishop still alive will not only be defrocked, but also thrown in jail by civilian authorities. I have a few thoughts as to how this all started in the first place, but that is for another thread. And as I’ve said at least two other times already on this thread, there are already multiple other threads currently discussing this issue. As this is the Non-Catholic Religions forum, the topic at hand is appropriate–Bishop Young’s attempts to get the LDS church to change its policies on youth interviews. He doesn’t think this subject is trash, nor do thousands of other LDS who have stories to tell.

I fully admit that the Catholic Church has many problems. Not one LDS poster here, by the way, has had anything to say even recognizing that this is a problem at all, which frankly is consistent with just about every other problem going on within the LDS church. All they have said is that it’s not worth discussing because the Catholic Church has large ongoing sexual abuse scandals. Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.
 
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I agree with most everything here. I don’t think though what she said was rude but truth. We do need to pray for their coming into the Catholic faith. There of course are those Mormons who lead good, moral lives but that will not save their souls.

It is better to pray for them and their souls than to join with them in prayer, especially with their extreme differences.
 
Chris-Wa1 said:
Well, Tom, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I fully acknowledge that the Catholic Church has a huge problem with regards to the sexual abuse scandals. There needs to be a massive reckoning on this matter. I hope every guilty priest and bishop still alive will not only be defrocked, but also thrown in jail by civilian authorities. I have a few thoughts as to how this all started in the first place, but that is for another thread. And as I’ve said at least two other times already on this thread, there are already multiple other threads currently discussing this issue. As this is the Non-Catholic Religions forum, the topic at hand is appropriate–Bishop Young’s attempts to get the LDS church to change its policies on youth interviews. He doesn’t think this subject is trash, nor do thousands of other LDS who have stories to tell.

I fully admit that the Catholic Church has many problems. Not one LDS poster here, by the way, has had anything to say even recognizing that this is a problem at all, which frankly is consistent with just about every other problem going on within the LDS church. All they have said is that it’s not worth discussing because the Catholic Church has large ongoing sexual abuse scandals. Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way.
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I will fully admit that the Joseph Bishop case is a problem. The response of law inforcement personnel and the response by LDS leaders failed to uncover the sexual abuse in this case and that is very bad.

I am thankful to not be a bishop and I do not anticipate such a challenge in my future. I refuse to be in a room by myself with youth of either sex who are not my children. I believe that in the vast majority of cases, Bishops have conducted these interviews appropriately. I would be shocked if there have not been inappropriate aspects of these interviews in a minority of cases. I am not sure what the proper solution should be, but if I was in charge and had no more communication from God than I normally enjoy; I would propose some changes. I think there are probably technological solutions to these problems. I for example would be very comfortable if youth were encouraged to record the interviews they had with their bishops AND there was a system in place that prevented physical contact (as an engineer, I would cause the door to open after 15 seconds and an alarm to sound, if the youth was not seated in a chair across the room and the bishop behind his desk).
I do not know the correct answer. If the chruch continues the interviews as currently constituted, my faith in the inspiration of chruch leaders will not be shaken. If issues get worse, and action is not taken, I will be concerned.

I do not reject the Catholic Chruch because of the horrible way Bishops and Cardinals have handled sexual assault, but I find it far more concerning than the way Stake Presidents and General Authorities have handled sexual assault in the CoJCoLDS. Perhaps I have blinders on, but I doubt it.

And I stand by my statement that if you didn’t know the response you got was likely, that was myopic on your part.
Charity, TOm
 
thedweh said:
Really? whats the reason you left?
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My reasons are personal. But I know that the 14th Article of Faith is, “We believe in gossip. The juicer the better.”

So, take your pick. I left because:

I got caught having an affair with the YW president and got excommunicated.

My ex-wife was having relations with the bishop and I didn’t like it.

My son was a flaming gay and I didn’t like the way the church treated him.

I was ostracized from the ward for my liberal blog.

I wanted to get a sex change.

I embezzled church funds and got caught.

I simply got fed up with everything and asked to have my name removed.

I came out in strong opposition to California’s Prop 8.

I think women should hold the priesthood.

I didn’t like knowing that Joseph Smith was a serial adulterer.

I prayed and found that the Book of Mormon was not true.

I loved drinking and bars more than being married.

I (fill in the blank).

Now, back to the beginning. I said it’s personal. That’s a nice way of saying, “it’s none of your business.” But certainly feel free to chose from the above list, any and as many as you like.
 
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