Mormon Christ "pretty close" to Christ of the Bible

[MelanieAnne]

I think the actual recommend question is “are you a full tithe payer?”

That raises a question. What is a tithe? It is 10% of what you EARN? According to the Bible it is 10% of your INCREASE, which would indicate it is a fraction of the increase of your net worth from one year to the next. Your “increase” takes into account the cost of living, the cost of food, housing, taxes, etc., and your “increase” is what you have left. If you have more than you had last year, then that is your increase. So take 10% of that and donate it. Makes sense.

Somehow I doubt that would fly at a tithing settlement.

When tithing was instituted in the Bible, it was the only form of payment to a central authority. Now people pay a variety of taxes to the government to pay for the sorts of things that churches used to provide. I’m not trying to be cheap here, but it seems rather unrealistic in today’s society when many are already paying over half their income to the government to then give 10% out elsewhere just so they can go to heaven.

I give what I can, and do so gladly and anonymously, but I don’t try to impoverish the family to do it.

 

[twopekinguys]

The catholic priest would be better than the bishop. The priest would know the parish member more than the bishop. The priest would certainly not mind depending on the circumstance. If a priest would disencourage me from attending mormon meetings to see my children, he would be encouraging shunning the lds service and my children. Or if he would encourage me to shun the mormons, he would be doing a disservice too.

But opus dei members and priests may see it differently and be very strict about such things.

Wrong yet again.

If the priest is not doing his job by telling you what you are doing is wrong, then he needs to be corrected by his Bishop.

Therefore, the proper step would be to seek the advise and council of the Bishop.

Gee, for someone who claims to be Catholic, I thought you would have known that.

Don’t look now, but your mormon bias is showing.

I will make you an offer. You send me a PM, and give me your name and diocese, and I will contact your Bishop for you, and see what he says.

 

[twopekinguys]

That raises a question. What is a tithe? It is 10% of what you EARN? According to the Bible it is 10% of your INCREASE, which would indicate it is a fraction of the increase of your net worth from one year to the next. Your “increase” takes into account the cost of living, the cost of food, housing, taxes, etc., and your “increase” is what you have left. If you have more than you had last year, then that is your increase. So take 10% of that and donate it. Makes sense.

Somehow I doubt that would fly at a tithing settlement.

When tithing was instituted in the Bible, it was the only form of payment to a central authority. Now people pay a variety of taxes to the government to pay for the sorts of things that churches used to provide. I’m not trying to be cheap here, but it seems rather unrealistic in today’s society when many are already paying over half their income to the government to then give 10% out elsewhere just so they can go to heaven.

I give what I can, and do so gladly and anonymously, but I don’t try to impoverish the family to do it.

I have seen varying opinions on this from different posters.

Some say it is 10% of gross income. Some say Net, some say increase.

Like so many other things in mormonism, it changes greatly.

 

[MelanieAnne]

I have seen varying opinions on this from different posters.

Some say it is 10% of gross income. Some say Net, some say increase.

Like so many other things in mormonism, it changes greatly.

The interesting thing is that, from what I’m told, the Mormon bishop has to take the member’s word for it. If the member claims it is 10%, then it is.

I’m taking the Bible literally and the Bible says “increase”. So, for example, if I had $500 last year in my savings account, and, after all was said and done this year, I managed to put another $100 in, 10% of my INCREASE ($100) would be $10. So that would be my tithe.

I suspect that the local Mormon hierarchy wouldn’t agree, but I’m not going to test it.

 

[zaffiroborant]

The catholic priest would be better than the bishop. The priest would know the parish member more than the bishop. The priest would certainly not mind depending on the circumstance. If a priest would disencourage me from attending mormon meetings to see my children, he would be encouraging shunning the lds service and my children. Or if he would encourage me to shun the mormons, he would be doing a disservice too.

But opus dei members and priests may see it differently and be very strict about such things.

I thought your children were on missions??
And no telling someone to not participate in the services of another religion is not asking that person to shun anyone. Geesh drama drama drama.

 

[zaffiroborant]

All this talk about shunning and the Catholics don’t realize that their own church has done shunning:

newadvent.org/cathen/05678a.htm

"Public excommunication in foro externo has two degrees according as it has or has not been formally published, or, in other words, according as excommunicated persons are to be shunned (vitandi) or tolerated (tolerati). A formally published or nominative excommunication occurs when the sentence has been brought to the knowledge of the public by a notification from the judge, indicating by name the person thus punished. No special method is required for this publication; according to the Council of Constance (1414-18), it suffices that “the sentence have been published or made known by the judge in a special and express manner”.** Persons thus excommunicated are to be shunned (vitandi), i.e. the faithful must have no intercourse with them either in regard to sacred things or (to a certain extent) profane matters**, as we shall see farther on. All other excommunicated persons, even though known, are tolerati, i.e. the law no longer obliges the faithful to abstain from intercourse with them, even in religious matters…**As to the vitandi, now reduced to the two aforementioned categories, they must be shunned by the faithful as formerly.
**

…

Civilia jura, i.e. the ordinary relations between members of the same society, outside of sacred and judicial matters. This privation, affecting particularly the person excommunicated, is no longer imposed on the faithful **except in regard to the vitandi. **The medieval canonists enumerated the prohibited civil relations in the following verse:

* Os, orare, vale, communio, mensa negatur,

namely:
(a) conversations, exchange of letters, tokens of benevolence (osculum);
(b) prayer in common with the excommunicated;
(c) marks of honour and respect;
(d) business and social relations;
(e) meals with the excommunicated."

Even if the Roman Catholic Church no longer does this, I don’t see how Catholics can be saying what they say in this thread when their own church has stated that a certain type of excommunicated people are to be shunned.

Oops! lol

This brings up the question are an LDS apostate and a Catholic ex-communicant equivalent?

 

[why_me]

I thought your children were on missions??
And no telling someone to not participate in the services of another religion is not asking that person to shun anyone. Geesh drama drama drama.

One is on a mission. To tell you the truth, I just don’t think it matters. God has more to think about than whether I attend both services or part of services. He has more things to be concerned about.

I am not a dogmatic person.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Thats ok. You do not need to apologize for being lukewarm…however,

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

The True God might feel differently

 

[PJM]

=why me;6744959]I don’t know if it really matters just how close mormons are to christ of the bible. What I do know is that they live very christlike lives. In general, they look out for their neighbor and show concern for the welfare of others. And, they pray in the morning as a family and in the evening as a family. Plus, they pray over their meals and attempt to teach their children good wholesome christian values.

Now that is ‘pretty close’ to christ. And in the end, it is really the only thing that matters.

Mark.3: [29] “but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin”

This means ALL who deny God [Christ is God] cannot and willnot be saved.

 

[pinay]

Hi all! I’m back. For a very short time. It is past 5AM and I just got done taking a quiz. I can’t sleep so I figured I’ll check back here. Peace to all and a very good morning!

TheQuestioner, THANK YOU so very much for explaining splendidly what I was trying to say. You completely understood my posts and you made my heart “lighter” for it - that I have somehow conveyed my meaning with my choice of words. English is only my 3rd language although I learned to write/speak it with formal schooling. I am a “she”, by the way.

Okay, I just hopped-and-skipped my way through the thread so I missed several posts. I just picked these ones to respond to:

Gosh Pinay are you sure about this? Because WhyMe claims to go to Catholic Mass AND to Mormon Sacrament meeting. SO… ??? Exactly what does that mean??

MelanieAnne, whyme is not LDS. My understanding is that he is Catholic but his children are LDS - I might be wrong about this. You are correct that he goes to Catholic mass and Sacrament meeting (with his children).

I was Catholic, now LDS - my family are Catholic. I oftentimes go to Catholic mass to be with my family.

But - I do not participate in the Eucharistic celebration - that is, I do not “eat the bread” and “drink from the cup”. I suppose one can fall in line and eat the bread without believing the truth of the matter, but I’m not one of those.

So, in my temple recommend interview, when the bishop asks:
“Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?”

I honestly say No because even though I go to Catholic Mass, I do not affiliate myself with Catholics - I go to be with my family as an LDS member and do not to participate in the Eucharist.

“Sympathize” in context of that interview question means that you agree with the contrary/opposing teaching. I don’t agree, therefore, even though I “sympathize” with the people holding such precepts, I do not “sympathize” with the precept itself.

This should clearly illustrate that in the matter of the temple recommend interview, the objective of the question is not to gauge whether I have sufficiently “shunned” the people but to gauge whether my testimony of the restored gospel is still intact.

 

[pinay]

Wait a minute, are you saying there is a tiered system of salvation for Mormons and that the rich people that can afford to tithe are somehow better people? Especially when some people are taxed in societies to over 50% to 70% of their income? So the Mormon Celestial Kingdom is for the rich? Not the “willy nilly” Mormon who can’t afford it? I’m disappointed.

That raises a question. What is a tithe? It is 10% of what you EARN? According to the Bible it is 10% of your INCREASE, which would indicate it is a fraction of the increase of your net worth from one year to the next. Your “increase” takes into account the cost of living, the cost of food, housing, taxes, etc., and your “increase” is what you have left. If you have more than you had last year, then that is your increase. So take 10% of that and donate it. Makes sense.

Somehow I doubt that would fly at a tithing settlement.

When tithing was instituted in the Bible, it was the only form of payment to a central authority. Now people pay a variety of taxes to the government to pay for the sorts of things that churches used to provide. I’m not trying to be cheap here, but it seems rather unrealistic in today’s society when many are already paying over half their income to the government to then give 10% out elsewhere just so they can go to heaven.

I give what I can, and do so gladly and anonymously, but I don’t try to impoverish the family to do it.

The interesting thing is that, from what I’m told, the Mormon bishop has to take the member’s word for it. If the member claims it is 10%, then it is.

I’m taking the Bible literally and the Bible says “increase”. So, for example, if I had $500 last year in my savings account, and, after all was said and done this year, I managed to put another $100 in, 10% of my INCREASE ($100) would be $10. So that would be my tithe.

I suspect that the local Mormon hierarchy wouldn’t agree, but I’m not going to test it.

As far as tithing goes, it is not so that only “rich” people can go to heaven. The principle of LDS tithing is the same as Catholic tithing. The difference is in the administration of the covenants. The LDS church is a “covenant-making” people. We start at baptism with the basic covenants. Then we make more covenants as we go along. You can juxtapose this to the Catholic ordinances - you first get baptized, then you receive the eucharist, then you get confirmed, then you get married or take holy orders, etc - at each stage you get more responsibilities. You can’t take on the sacrament of marriage unless you have been baptized first.

The Catholic Church is looser about giving a higher ordinance when a lower ordinance has not been perfected. Catholics can get married even if they don’t regularly receive communion, for example. In LDS, you are discouraged to make more covenants when you can’t even keep the ones you already have.

Tithing is part of your baptismal covenant just like chastity, keeping the Sabbath holy, etc. The covenants made at the temple are in addition to your baptismal covenant. So, you will need to keep your baptismal covenant first before you can add more covenants to it - this includes tithing.

So, is it Net, Gross, Increase, what-have-you? That is between you and God. The interview is - “Do you pay a full tithe?”. If you say Yes, then that’s that. The thing is, if you said Yes in all honesty, then you are set. If you say Yes in dishonesty then you cheated God - not the bishop. So, if after pleading in prayer to the Holy Spirit to gain understanding, your honest understanding of a full tithe is 1 chicken out of the 10 chickens that you hatched that morning, then that is your full tithe.

There is no “rich” or “poor” qualification. If you have to pay 60% of taxes to the government, that is not relevant to tithe - Render to Ceasar what is Ceasar’s. This is common between LDS and Catholic teaching.

Personally, even before I became LDS, I have always been a tithe-payer. When I lived in the Philippines I was poor. I’m not so poor now but it’s the same. When I was in high-school, our priest gave this sermon: “Do not say, I cannot pay tithe because I need new shoes. Rather, say, I cannot buy new shoes because I pay tithe.” That made an impression on me. I was working by then, so I started paying tithe and it just became part of my life. I wish more Catholics would take their tithing seriously. It is not so bad in the Philippines when I lived there, but America seem to be more indifferent to it.

Sorry this is such a long post…

Peace to you all.

 

[SirThomasMore]

As

far as tithing goes, it is not so that only “rich” people can go to heaven.

 

[pinay]

Sure it is. If you do not pay your tithing, ie. ticket to the temple, you can’t go to the temple. If you don;t go to the temple, you do not go to the highest level of heaven

So, you are saying only the rich can pay tithing. I don’t agree.

As Catholics, we do not have to buy a ticket to heaven

There was a time when that pretty much summed up what they did. I’m Filipino, remember? It is written in our history. And it wasn’t that long ago even. But, I don’t hold it against them.

Actually, you are a misguided people, being rolled to give your money to support the leaders

SirThomasMore, our leaders have jobs. Catholic priests don’t. You have to give your money to support your leaders lest they can’t eat. We don’t have to. Our leaders can support themselves. But, I also don’t hold it against the Catholics. The Catholic Priesthood Order holds my utmost respect.

Honestly, I do not understand why the Catholics in this forum, especially the moderators, let you go on about the Mormons like you do. But then, maybe they are just as tired of your version of Christianity as much as the LDS are. I apologize if this sounds harsh. It had to be said.

Peace, brother.

 

[SirThomasMore]

So, you are saying only the rich can pay tithing. I don’t agree.

 

[SirThomasMore]

Let me add that I know my words often appear harsh. There is no nice way to tell people they follow false gods. I am called to speak against the false religions and stand strong against those who follow false prophets. I have always been a plain speaker and I have always told like it is. I take no pleasure in speaking as I must about a false Church. I believe God allowed me to be LDS so I could learn from the inside. When I had learned what I needed to learn, God led me out.

I pray daily for those of you mired in the false church. It is my fervent prayer that you will someday be free of it as I was.

In all and total sincerity and love,

Steve

 

[PaulDupre]

SirThomasMore, our leaders have jobs. Catholic priests don’t.

Surely you jest. A Catholic priest works more hours per week at his job than anyone I ever met. And they are on call 24/7/365. Most get very little sleep as a result.

Catholic priests are employed by the diocese in which they serve, or by the order in which they serve. Many are teachers, doctors, lawyers, administrators, theologians, authors or therapists as well as priests. Their salary is typically very low. One does not become a priest for the money.

 

[PaulDupre]

English is only my 3rd language although I learned to write/speak it with formal schooling.

Pinay, I must say by way of compliment that for someone whose English is a 3rd language, you wield it very well. I am often amazed by people from other nations who have mastered the English/American language to the extent that you have. It is not an easy language to learn. Congratulations.

Paul

 

[SirThomasMore]

Agreed