Mormon church bans women from clergy and all male meeting

[andrewstx]

I support the LDS church in not allowing protesting on their private property and not letting the women attend the priesthood meeting. Last year, the LDS started publicly broadcasting the priesthood session on BYUTV, and I also believe on the internet like other sessions of general conference. These ladies can watch it at home with their husbands and sons rather than sending them off to the stake center.

Women not being ordained to the priesthood was never something I had an issue with. Polygamy, yes. General treatment of women, especially single women, yes. I don’t have an issue with a male-only priesthood.

I think the Ordain Women group actually have more of a case than the people who think the Catholic Church should ordain women to the priesthood. In the early LDS church, women actually blessed each other and their children openly. They were not ordained to the priesthood or have priesthood authority, but they certainly exercised priesthood power. Even today, women exercise priesthood authority in the temples to provide washings and anointings to other women. I did this when I was an ordinance worker at the temple.

When men and women marry in the LDS temple, they enter into the “patriarchal order” of the priesthood. While women are not ordained to the priesthood in the LDS church, there is an unspoken, untaught, implicit priesthood that women hold. This is why I believe that women will eventually be ordained to the priesthood in the LDS church. I do not believe the priesthood the women will hold will be the same or equal to the priesthood the men hold. It will be different. I believe the women will have different roles and responsibilities in their “priesthood offices”, but they will be ordained nonetheless.

The only place that women have in mormonism is the Relief Society. A mormon woman can’t even be resurrected unless she has a husband to take her over. No thanks and I say that as a man.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I support the LDS church in not allowing protesting on their private property and not letting the women attend the priesthood meeting. Last year, the LDS started publicly broadcasting the priesthood session on BYUTV, and I also believe on the internet like other sessions of general conference. These ladies can watch it at home with their husbands and sons rather than sending them off to the stake center.

Women not being ordained to the priesthood was never something I had an issue with. Polygamy, yes. General treatment of women, especially single women, yes. I don’t have an issue with a male-only priesthood.

I think the Ordain Women group actually have more of a case than the people who think the Catholic Church should ordain women to the priesthood. In the early LDS church, women actually blessed each other and their children openly. They were not ordained to the priesthood or have priesthood authority, but they certainly exercised priesthood power. Even today, women exercise priesthood authority in the temples to provide washings and anointings to other women. I did this when I was an ordinance worker at the temple.

When men and women marry in the LDS temple, they enter into the “patriarchal order” of the priesthood. While women are not ordained to the priesthood in the LDS church, there is an unspoken, untaught, implicit priesthood that women hold. This is why I believe that women will eventually be ordained to the priesthood in the LDS church. I do not believe the priesthood the women will hold will be the same or equal to the priesthood the men hold. It will be different. I believe the women will have different roles and responsibilities in their “priesthood offices”, but they will be ordained nonetheless.

The ERA was the hot topic when I was a Mormon. The excommunication of Sonja Johnson for publicly supporting the ERA by testifying in front of Congress was one of the nails in the coffin for me.

Coming into the Catholic Church, I took a good long looks at her male only priesthood. It is not comparable to the Mormon practice and beliefs at all, starting with, the function of a priest. In persona Christi cannot be overlooked or understated.

Then there is the Catholic teaching that all the baptized share in the Priesthood of Jesus Christ. ALL the baptized. Clergy have a very specific role, that isn’t for all men, and certainly isn’t for 12 year old boys! Not all the baptized, men and women, are priests as all men are in Mormonism. There isn’t a precedence for this in the Bible, anywhere.

To your point of women giving blessings…we bless ourselves every time we enter/exit a church and cross ourselves with holy water. We bless our children, often. In the morning when they leave for school, at night when they go to bed, at the same time we bless ourselves as we enter/exit a church, etc. in these actions we are sharing in the Priesthood of Jesus Christ. This belief is completely absent in Mormonism.

 

[iepuras]

The only place that women have in mormonism is the Relief Society. A mormon woman can’t even be resurrected unless she has a husband to take her over. No thanks and I say that as a man.

Pretty much. The inequality of women is was lead me out the door. I had serious issues with women having to go through a husband to get to Heavenly Father.

 

[iepuras]

The ERA was the hot topic when I was a Mormon. The excommunication of Sonja Johnson for publicly supporting the ERA by testifying in front of Congress was one of the nails in the coffin for me.

Coming into the Catholic Church, I took a good long looks at her male only priesthood. It is not comparable to the Mormon practice and beliefs at all, starting with, the function of a priest. In persona Christi cannot be overlooked or understated.

Then there is the Catholic teaching that all the baptized share in the Priesthood of Jesus Christ. ALL the baptized. Clergy have a very specific role, that isn’t for all men, and certainly isn’t for 12 year old boys! Not all the baptized, men and women, are priests as all men are in Mormonism. There isn’t a precedence for this in the Bible, anywhere.

To your point of women giving blessings…we bless ourselves every time we enter/exit a church and cross ourselves with holy water. We bless our children, often. In the morning when they leave for school, at night when they go to bed, at the same time we bless ourselves as we enter/exit a church, etc. in these actions we are sharing in the Priesthood of Jesus Christ. This belief is completely absent in Mormonism.

The priesthood of the faithful is a big reason why I am becoming Catholic. I love that I can bless my children. I found the fact that anybody can baptize to be compelling. Of course, we ordinarily have a priest or deacon baptize, but the fact that anyone can baptize in an emergency is important to me. Think of all the babies who died shortly after birth who were baptized by female midwives, nurses and doctors!

Another big reason why I am becoming Catholic are the teachings on Mary. As an LDS woman, I ached to know more about Heavenly Mother. When I learned that Jesus Christ gave us His mother to be our mother, I was overjoyed. A Mother in Heaven we can access! I thank Jesus Christ every day that He gave me His Mother.

 

[taylorf]

I also support the LDS church in this decision, however I cringe at some of the stuff church leaders have said. In one talk alone, GBH provided a slew of interesting comments…

"My dear sisters, you marvelous women who have chosen the better part, I stand in great admiration for all that you do. I see your hands in everything…You are mothers…You are companions…You are shoppers.…You are nurses…You are the family chauffeur.…And so I might go on…

They drive cars, they run computers, they attend the activities of their children, they cook and sew, they teach classes, and they speak in church…

Some of you, unfortunately, will never marry in this life…

Someone has said that there is no more beautiful picture than that of a good woman cooking a meal…"

This was a GC talk from 2004. You’d think he’d at least avoid pigeon-holing women into stereotypical roles.

 

[taylorf]

Pretty much. The inequality of women is was lead me out the door. I had serious issues with women having to go through a husband to get to Heavenly Father.

I love this quote from Rodney Turner, retired BYU religion professor …

Women are queens and priestesses but not gods. The Godhead, the ‘Presidency of Heaven,’ is a presidency of three male deities, similar to a stake presidency whose members each have wives who are responsible for domestic religious education but not ecclesiastical functions.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I also support the LDS church in this decision, however I cringe at some of the stuff church leaders have said. In one talk alone, GBH provided a slew of interesting comments…

"My dear sisters, you marvelous women who have chosen the better part, I stand in great admiration for all that you do. I see your hands in everything…You are mothers…You are companions…You are shoppers.…You are nurses…You are the family chauffeur.…And so I might go on…

They drive cars, they run computers, they attend the activities of their children, they cook and sew, they teach classes, and they speak in church…

Some of you, unfortunately, will never marry in this life…

Someone has said that there is no more beautiful picture than that of a good woman cooking a meal…"

This was a GC talk from 2004. You’d think he’d at least avoid pigeon-holing women into stereotypical roles.

Pigeon-holing women into stereotypical roles is just a tiny part in the mess you’ve quoted here. Women, they drive cars, they run computers, isn’t it just amazing who ever would have though they could manage to do those things. Really the women in your church don’t go WTF was that all about after listening to that? Read Pope John Paul II on women and their role you’ll see a man who truly respects women and knows what they are capable of and appreciates the work that women do both in the home and in the world.

 

[seamarfox]

Very interesting discussion, everyone. Thank you for the respectful tone exhibited by all.

Could I ask one change in the protocol of discussion?

There is no such thing as the mormon church. There never has been. You won’t find it in the phone book. From its founding on April 6, 1830 it has been properly called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The nickname “mormon” was given to us by our early enemies, the same ones who burned our homes, ordered our extermination and forced us to flee from the United States, where so many perished in the wilderness.

Just as it would be inappropriate to refer to the Jewish faith as the congregation of Moses, or to the Catholic Church as Peter’s church, most of us take quiet offense to our Church being identified by one of its prophets, rather than our Savior, whom we worship uppermost. I suppose we’ll always be called Mormons ourselves, but please refer to our Church by its proper name, or “LDS” if one needs to abbreviate.

Thank you,
Bill Wright

 

[seamarfox]

Like many others, I thirst for greater knowledge of Heavenly Mother, but I doubt the world is ready for Her just yet.

 

[taylorf]

Very interesting discussion, everyone. Thank you for the respectful tone exhibited by all.

Could I ask one change in the protocol of discussion?

There is no such thing as the mormon church. There never has been. You won’t find it in the phone book. From its founding on April 6, 1830 it has been properly called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The nickname “mormon” was given to us by our early enemies, the same ones who burned our homes, ordered our extermination and forced us to flee from the United States, where so many perished in the wilderness.

Hi Bill. I don’t want to derail the thread but just need to correct one point. The chronology of the church’s name is:

1830: Church of Christ
1834: The Church of the Latter Day Saints (this is on the Kirtland temple)
1838: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints

 

[TexanKnight]

Very interesting discussion, everyone. Thank you for the respectful tone exhibited by all.

Could I ask one change in the protocol of discussion?

There is no such thing as the mormon church. There never has been. You won’t find it in the phone book. From its founding on April 6, 1830 it has been properly called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The nickname “mormon” was given to us by our early enemies, the same ones who burned our homes, ordered our extermination and forced us to flee from the United States, where so many perished in the wilderness.

Just as it would be inappropriate to refer to the Jewish faith as the congregation of Moses, or to the Catholic Church as Peter’s church, most of us take quiet offense to our Church being identified by one of its prophets, rather than our Savior, whom we worship uppermost. I suppose we’ll always be called Mormons ourselves, but please refer to our Church by its proper name, or “LDS” if one needs to abbreviate.

Thank you,
Bill Wright

Sorry…but that is not totally true.

When I was LDS, the commercials from the Mormon Church were really nice. At the end, it would say, “From the the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints…The Mormons”

So, it is not just enemies…

 

[iepuras]

Very interesting discussion, everyone. Thank you for the respectful tone exhibited by all.

Could I ask one change in the protocol of discussion?

There is no such thing as the mormon church. There never has been. You won’t find it in the phone book. From its founding on April 6, 1830 it has been properly called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The nickname “mormon” was given to us by our early enemies, the same ones who burned our homes, ordered our extermination and forced us to flee from the United States, where so many perished in the wilderness.

Just as it would be inappropriate to refer to the Jewish faith as the congregation of Moses, or to the Catholic Church as Peter’s church, most of us take quiet offense to our Church being identified by one of its prophets, rather than our Savior, whom we worship uppermost. I suppose we’ll always be called Mormons ourselves, but please refer to our Church by its proper name, or “LDS” if one needs to abbreviate.

Thank you,
Bill Wright

What about the “I am a Mormon” campaign of the LDS church? Maybe you should remind them of the name of their church. When I was Mormon, I never knew any member of the LDS church who took offense over the term.

 

[iepuras]

Like many others, I thirst for greater knowledge of Heavenly Mother, but I doubt the world is ready for Her just yet.

I know the LDS church teaches that our spirits are literal children of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother. So what kind of father does not allow his children to know or communicate with their mother? When your children go off to college, do you allow them to talk to their mother when they call or is she too sacred to talk to or barely mention?

 

[iepuras]

Pigeon-holing women into stereotypical roles is just a tiny part in the mess you’ve quoted here. Women, they drive cars, they run computers, isn’t it just amazing who ever would have though they could manage to do those things. Really the women in your church don’t go WTF was that all about after listening to that? Read Pope John Paul II on women and their role you’ll see a man who truly respects women and knows what they are capable of and appreciates the work that women do both in the home and in the world.

Girls raised in the LDS church are taught that their role and their greatest aspiration is to be a wife and mother. They are taught that anything else is less than ideal. The teaching starts when they are very young. They are supposed to grow up, get married and raise children. It’s the husband’s job to work to support the family.

When I was in the Young Women program, I was taught that if I didn’t want to be a wife and mother, then I needed to pray for that desire, otherwise I would not reach my true potential. I heard this a lot because I was quite vocal in that I didn’t want to get married and have children. I wanted to go to college and see the world. I did go to college and saw the world. I also got married and have children.

In the LDS church, women are supposed to fill a certain role and if they don’t fulfill that role, then there is something “wrong” with them. On more than one occasion, I was told by an LDS man that I was selfish and wordly because I got a masters degree and have a professional career. Of course, LDS men who did the same thing were not told they were selfish and wordly because they have families to support. Women never, ever have to support their families. I didn’t meet my husband until I was 29. What was I supposed to do? Sit at home and wait for a man to come marry me?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Like many others, I thirst for greater knowledge of Heavenly Mother, but I doubt the world is ready for Her just yet.

Why should we fear your goddess?

 

[RebeccaJ]

Very interesting discussion, everyone. Thank you for the respectful tone exhibited by all.

Could I ask one change in the protocol of discussion?

There is no such thing as the mormon church. There never has been. You won’t find it in the phone book. From its founding on April 6, 1830 it has been properly called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The nickname “mormon” was given to us by our early enemies, the same ones who burned our homes, ordered our extermination and forced us to flee from the United States, where so many perished in the wilderness.

Just as it would be inappropriate to refer to the Jewish faith as the congregation of Moses, or to the Catholic Church as Peter’s church, most of us take quiet offense to our Church being identified by one of its prophets, rather than our Savior, whom we worship uppermost. I suppose we’ll always be called Mormons ourselves, but please refer to our Church by its proper name, or “LDS” if one needs to abbreviate.

Thank you,
Bill Wright

Bill, the main proselytizing website for your church uses the name “Mormon”.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Girls raised in the LDS church are taught that their role and their greatest aspiration is to be a wife and mother. They are taught that anything else is less than ideal. The teaching starts when they are very young. They are supposed to grow up, get married and raise children. It’s the husband’s job to work to support the family.

When I was in the Young Women program, I was taught that if I didn’t want to be a wife and mother, then I needed to pray for that desire, otherwise I would not reach my true potential. I heard this a lot because I was quite vocal in that I didn’t want to get married and have children. I wanted to go to college and see the world. I did go to college and saw the world. I also got married and have children.

In the LDS church, women are supposed to fill a certain role and if they don’t fulfill that role, then there is something “wrong” with them. On more than one occasion, I was told by an LDS man that I was selfish and wordly because I got a masters degree and have a professional career. Of course, LDS men who did the same thing were not told they were selfish and wordly because they have families to support. Women never, ever have to support their families. I didn’t meet my husband until I was 29. What was I supposed to do? Sit at home and wait for a man to come marry me?

The thing about degrading women for getting an education, is, at what point is a female education selfish and worldly? Should girls not learn to read or write because it is worldly and selfish? Should young women not go to high school or college because it is worldly and selfish? How much education is too much?

The same can be said for degrading women for having a career.

Are we living in 1914?

Misogyny seems to be alive and well in the LDS mind set.

 

[PaulDupre1]

Like many others, I thirst for greater knowledge of Heavenly Mother, but I doubt the world is ready for Her just yet.

Why???

When I was LDS, they taught us that Heavenly Father would not let us know anything about our Heavenly Mother(s) because we might take her name in vain or something, or they might disrespect her (like Mormons disrespect the Virgin Mary?).

Are your gods and goddesses that thin-skinned and emotionally fragile that they can’t take a little bad behavior from their children?

What small, weak gods you have.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)

 

[andrewstx]

Very interesting discussion, everyone. Thank you for the respectful tone exhibited by all.

Could I ask one change in the protocol of discussion?

There is no such thing as the mormon church. There never has been. You won’t find it in the phone book. From its founding on April 6, 1830 it has been properly called The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The nickname “mormon” was given to us by our early enemies, the same ones who burned our homes, ordered our extermination and forced us to flee from the United States, where so many perished in the wilderness.

Just as it would be inappropriate to refer to the Jewish faith as the congregation of Moses, or to the Catholic Church as Peter’s church, most of us take quiet offense to our Church being identified by one of its prophets, rather than our Savior, whom we worship uppermost. I suppose we’ll always be called Mormons ourselves, but please refer to our Church by its proper name, or “LDS” if one needs to abbreviate.

Thank you,
Bill Wright

To speak the truth Bill. mormon churches are always called mormon in the yellow pages of the phone book…always. Maybe it is just one word as opposed to nine. Face it it’s just easier to speak, and spell and takes up much less space.

And I will never call the mormons “saints” because to me not everyone is a Saint. Saint as I understand it is a somewhat special term, not for every Tom, Dick, and Harry.

 

[NeuroTypical]

The last time I checked, if you look at U.S. women getting college educations, Jewish women have the highest percentage, followed by LDS women. Various studies have linked religious affiliation pretty clearly with educational attainment, and whenever they look at mormon women, they seem to be near the top of the charts.

Also, ten minutes of googling for words like “woman education” over at lds.org, and all I can find is church leaders urging women to get education - the oldest source I found was 1965. Can anyone find anything from a church leader urging a woman get less education? I’d be happy to stack the quotes up against each other so folks can make up their minds.

On more than one occasion, I was told by an LDS man that I was selfish and wordly because I got a masters degree and have a professional career.

I believe you iepuras. I haven’t met someone like that in a while, but I have met them. Glad you didn’t fall for their line of unrighteous false nonsense.