Mormon church bans women from clergy and all male meeting

[Corki]

Bill, the main proselytizing website for your church uses the name “Mormon”.

As do their TV commercials.

 

[TexanKnight]

The last time I checked, if you look at U.S. women getting college educations, Jewish women have the highest percentage, followed by LDS women. Various studies have linked religious affiliation pretty clearly with educational attainment, and whenever they look at mormon women, they seem to be near the top of the charts.

Also, ten minutes of googling for words like “woman education” over at lds.org, and all I can find is church leaders urging women to get education - the oldest source I found was 1965. Can anyone find anything from a church leader urging a woman get less education? I’d be happy to stack the quotes up against each other so folks can make up their minds.

I believe you iepuras. I haven’t met someone like that in a while, but I have met them. Glad you didn’t fall for their line of unrighteous false nonsense.

hmmm…

SALT LAKE CITY – Students across the country are heading back to college. Nationally, more women than men attend post-high school schooling – 57 percent to 43 percent. But in Utah, women are falling behind men in education.

According to a study commissioned by the Utah System of Higher Education, Utahns believe men should have more education than women. In fact, only 35 percent of women and 39 percent of men believe females should get a bachelor’s degree.

Read more at ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=12174929#xmgL1mBDSkyZbjuq.99

 

[NeuroTypical]

I dunno Texan, from where I’m standing, it sounds like there is no shortage of LDS church leaders actively speaking out such disturbing cultural trends, and are in some ways succeeding. What do you think?

Some of the stuff I’ve found:

Albrecht and Heaton (1984) compared the educational achievement of a large national sample of LDS to that of the general population. They found that 54% of the LDS men had some post–high school education, as compared to 37% for the general population. LDS women’s post–high school educational attainment significantly exceeded the national average, at 44% compared to 28%.

McClendon and Chadwick (2004) compared the educational attainment of men and women who have served missions to that of men and women in U.S. society of the same age. …] Over 40% of these LDS men and women graduated from college, compared to only 18% of the general population at the same age.

 

[SpeSalvi]

I was definitely encouraged to go get my higher education while in Young Women’s… So I could be a better wife and mother.

While the LDS Church does encourage women to get their education, the end goal is to be a wife and mother. There is no allowance for any other vocation, regardless of what your degree is in.

 

[gamewell45]

I support the LDS decision on this

 

[iepuras]

I was definitely encouraged to go get my higher education while in Young Women’s… So I could be a better wife and mother.

While the LDS Church does encourage women to get their education, the end goal is to be a wife and mother. There is no allowance for any other vocation, regardless of what your degree is in.

Thank you SpeSalvi! You beat me to it! I was at BYU when Gordon Hinckley was encouraging women to get their higher education, but the education was always to help become a better wife and mother, not to accomplish anything professionally or personally.

Yes, Gordon Hinckley encouraged women to get an education. Then he also said the below as quoted by taylorf in post # 25

"My dear sisters, you marvelous women who have chosen the better part, I stand in great admiration for all that you do. I see your hands in everything…You are mothers…You are companions…You are shoppers…You are nurses…You are the family chauffeur…And so I might go on…

They drive cars, they run computers, they attend the activities of their children, they cook and sew, they teach classes, and they speak in church…

Some of you, unfortunately, will never marry in this life…

Someone has said that there is no more beautiful picture than that of a good woman cooking a meal…"

What’s wrong with saying that women are leaders, problem solvers, and relationship builders? Those are things women do whether they are stay at home moms or have professional careers.

I got way more harassment for my educational and professional pursuits from LDS men my same age than from the older generations. I’m in my mid-30’s so men from my generation generally do not have a problem with women getting an education and having careers.

I got a degree in accounting at BYU. Probably about 25% of the accounting students were women. When I started working and got involved in recruiting at Texas schools, I found that 50% of the students in the accounting programs were women. LDS women are generally expected to get degrees in teaching, nursing, or social work - something that is “applicable” to being a wife and mother. They are not expected to become doctors, lawyers, engineers or accountants. Higher education and professional success are simply not valued in LDS women. The ability to be a good “homemaker” is. Somehow these things are often thought of as mutually exclusive when they are not. Attitudes are getting better but there is a long way to go.

 

[Sarcelle]

The thing about degrading women for getting an education, is, at what point is a female education selfish and worldly? Should girls not learn to read or write because it is worldly and selfish? Should young women not go to high school or college because it is worldly and selfish? How much education is too much?

The same can be said for degrading women for having a career.

Are we living in 1914?

Misogyny seems to be alive and well in the LDS mind set.

Lest we feel self righteous, there are some Catholics, even in this forum that think the same thing.

Either way, women are supposed to be barefoot, ignorant and pregnant.

 

[TexanKnight]

I dunno Texan, from where I’m standing, it sounds like there is no shortage of LDS church leaders actively speaking out such disturbing cultural trends, and are in some ways succeeding. What do you think?

Some of the stuff I’ve found:

not saying you are wrong. I have no idea. What I posted was an article from a Salt Lake News Source. Figured they would know…being in Utah and all

 

[zaffiroborant]

I dunno Texan, from where I’m standing, it sounds like there is no shortage of LDS church leaders actively speaking out such disturbing cultural trends, and are in some ways succeeding. What do you think?

Some of the stuff I’ve found:

Albrecht and Heaton (1984

Some of the stuff I found, all of it more recent than your quotes:

Deseret News 2012

SALT LAKE CITY — The number of college-age adults in Utah with a post-secondary degree rose by more than 5,000 from 2009 to 2010, according to the U.S. Census Bureau.

Officials say the numbers are promising, but more work is required to reach Utah’s education goals, especially among female students who continue to lag beyond their counterparts in other states in completing college.

The Salt Lake Tribune 2012

The gap between men and women attaining four-year degrees in Utah has grown to6 percent: A disparity that separates the Beehive State from the rest of the U.S.

Since the 1990s, post-secondary education enrollment figures for Utah women have steadily declined—a trend that’s resulted in Utah ranking 26th in the nation for higher education completion by women.

These and other statistics were presented to educators, community activists and women from across the state Tuesday in Salt Lake City at the United Way’s Women and Education Summit. The conference opened with keynote speeches from a data expert and from a local education advocate who set the tone for the event by communicating a problem: women in Utah are struggling to get college degrees.

From Utahwomenandeducation.org 2014

Cultivating an educated population requires creating a college-going culture and assuring that both men and women earn postsecondary certificates and degrees to the maximum extent possible. Yet, statistics from various sources show that the state and its residents should be particularly concerned about the completion rates of Utah women. A report from the Utah Department of Workforce Services stated, “While prior to 1990, Utah women showed a higher rate of college graduation than U.S. women, by 2000, Utah women had lost their ‘bachelor’s degree or higher’ educational edge. Utah shows by far the largest gap in the nation between male and female college-graduation rates”. The Utah Foundation reports that, although the number of women in Utah with a bachelor’s degree or higher has slightly increased since 2000, percentages are not keeping pace with the nation. This is particularly troubling since Utah men earn bachelor’s degrees or higher at a rate that exceeds the national average.
Finally, Pamela Perlich, Senior Research Economist at the University of Utah’s Bureau of Economic and Business Research stated, “Utah women are slightly less likely to have college degrees than are women in the rest of the nation. This lower overall rate is the result of significantly lower educational attainment of Utah’s younger women…So, while Utah young women start college studies at above average rates, they are less likely to complete their degrees.” The bottom-line is that this is a trend that Utah cannot afford to see continue – the resulting negative impact on the care of young children and upon the economy of the state will be long-lasting and pervasive.

And again from Deseret News 2010

Her study found that many Mormon girls are encouraged to go to college but not necessarily to finish. Some survey participants said they saw no urgency to graduate, believing they would finish “someday.” Others said that starting a family trumped college, and getting married ended their education.

 

[zaffiroborant]

The last time I checked, if you look at U.S. women getting college educations, Jewish women have the highest percentage, followed by LDS women. Various studies have linked religious affiliation pretty clearly with educational attainment, and whenever they look at mormon women, they seem to be near the top of the charts.

Also, ten minutes of googling for words like “woman education” over at lds.org, and all I can find is church leaders urging women to get education - the oldest source I found was 1965. Can anyone find anything from a church leader urging a woman get less education? I’d be happy to stack the quotes up against each other so folks can make up their minds.

I believe you iepuras. I haven’t met someone like that in a while, but I have met them. Glad you didn’t fall for their line of unrighteous false nonsense.

And how many words like Hinckley’s deplorable speech have leaders put out. Really!!! “They drive cars, they run computers” that’s like saying “men they dial phones and operate DVR’s” why in the world is it exceptional, worthy of mention that women drive cars and run computers??? I printed out Hinkley’s conference speech for my daughters, I have to say I was more than pleased with their reaction and we had a long discussion afterwards and I directed them to John Paul II’s address to women. The two addresses to women are light-years apart and after Hinckley’s they were quite impressed with JPII’s.

 

[marywarfield]

Thank you SpeSalvi! You beat me to it! I was at BYU when Gordon Hinckley was encouraging women to get their higher education, but the education was always to help become a better wife and mother, not to accomplish anything professionally or personally.

Yes, Gordon Hinckley encouraged women to get an education. Then he also said the below as quoted by taylorf in post # 25

"My dear sisters, you marvelous women who have chosen the better part, I stand in great admiration for all that you do. I see your hands in everything…You are mothers…You are companions…You are shoppers…You are nurses…You are the family chauffeur…And so I might go on…

They drive cars, they run computers, they attend the activities of their children, they cook and sew, they teach classes, and they speak in church…

Some of you, unfortunately, will never marry in this life…

Someone has said that there is no more beautiful picture than that of a good woman cooking a meal…"

What’s wrong with saying that women are leaders, problem solvers, and relationship builders? Those are things women do whether they are stay at home moms or have professional careers.

I got way more harassment for my educational and professional pursuits from LDS men my same age than from the older generations. I’m in my mid-30’s so men from my generation generally do not have a problem with women getting an education and having careers.

I got a degree in accounting at BYU. Probably about 25% of the accounting students were women. When I started working and got involved in recruiting at Texas schools, I found that 50% of the students in the accounting programs were women. LDS women are generally expected to get degrees in teaching, nursing, or social work - something that is “applicable” to being a wife and mother. They are not expected to become doctors, lawyers, engineers or accountants. Higher education and professional success are simply not valued in LDS women. The ability to be a good “homemaker” is. Somehow these things are often thought of as mutually exclusive when they are not. Attitudes are getting better but there is a long way to go.

I had a disturbing encounter with a Mormon contractor.
He came to my house to do some repairs and
while here began to criticize me to my husband
because in his mind I was wasting money by splitting
kindling for the fireplace.
He told my husband that women should be excellent
at conserving household budgets and that his wife
saved all the lint from the dryer and was adept at
soaking it and spinning it into firewood logs.
My daughter at the time was majoring in music
at a conservatory and he viewed this as an example
of my bad teaching of my daughter as the girl’s primary
goal should not be music but to find a husband. He
was thrilled his daughter was bringing home a prospect
after only two months at BYU. If the man was suitable
it would save her father a fortune in tuition.
He then asked my husband to meet him for
lunch the next day so he could explain how LDS
could help repair our family values.

How incredibly depressing!
My husband fired him.

 

[TexanKnight]

That’s good.
After all, we have freedom of religion.

They banned blacks from the priesthood until recently…until they received a “revelation” that it was time to lift that ban.

I trust that if they receive a “revelation” to lift the ban on female priests, you will support that too, yes?

.

I do not believe they receive revelations at all. I am not LDS. I simply believe that if you are LDS, be LDS. If you do not accept LDS teachings, then don’t be LDS. Protesting is useless. If the LDS church wants to ban the protests on temple square, I have no problem with that

 

[RebeccaJ]

I was definitely encouraged to go get my higher education while in Young Women’s… So I could be a better wife and mother.

While the LDS Church does encourage women to get their education, the end goal is to be a wife and mother. There is no allowance for any other vocation, regardless of what your degree is in.

The BYU MRS department.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Lest we feel self righteous, there are some Catholics, even in this forum that think the same thing.

Either way, women are supposed to be barefoot, ignorant and pregnant.

Yes, I’ve seen it as well.

 

[iepuras]

The BYU MRS department.

I’m still waiting on my tuition refund from BYU as I did not graduate with my MRS.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I had a disturbing encounter with a Mormon contractor.
He came to my house to do some repairs and
while here began to criticize me to my husband
because in his mind I was wasting money by splitting
kindling for the fireplace.
He told my husband that women should be excellent
at conserving household budgets and that his wife
saved all the lint from the dryer and was adept at
soaking it and spinning it into firewood logs.
My daughter at the time was majoring in music
at a conservatory and he viewed this as an example
of my bad teaching of my daughter as the girl’s primary
goal should not be music but to find a husband. He
was thrilled his daughter was bringing home a prospect
after only two months at BYU. If the man was suitable
it would save her father a fortune in tuition.
He then asked my husband to meet him for
lunch the next day so he could explain how LDS
could help repair our family values.

How incredibly depressing!
My husband fired him.

LOL! I’m sitting her wondering about all the toxins introduced into ones home by burning lint as fire fuel.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I’m still waiting on my tuition refund from BYU as I did not graduate with my MRS.

You were ripped off.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I dunno Texan, from where I’m standing, it sounds like there is no shortage of LDS church leaders actively speaking out such disturbing cultural trends, and are in some ways succeeding. What do you think?

Some of the stuff I’ve found:

Both are occurring, but the LDS leaders are out of touch with reality. The only people.who set out to get a higher education with no intention of using it on a career path are the very wealthy and apparently LDS women. It becomes an economic choice, as higher ed is costly, and the costs rise more every year. LDS are also taught to not get into debt, so, the prudent decision for a LDS woman is to not take on student loans, therefore, the rates for women college grads in Utah is low.

 

[iepuras]

Both are occurring, but the LDS leaders are out of touch with reality. The only people.who set out to get a higher education with no intention of using it on a career path are the very wealthy and apparently LDS women. It becomes an economic choice, as higher ed is costly, and the costs rise more every year. LDS are also taught to not get into debt, so, the prudent decision for a LDS woman is to not take on student loans, therefore, the rates for women college grads in Utah is low.

What I saw with a good number of my married female peers at BYU is that they would drop out to work full time to pay for the husband’s college education to avoid debt as much as possible. The intent was always for the woman to go back to finish after her husband graduated, but it didn’t always work out that way due to babies and/or moving for the husband’s job. This is why BYU now has a an online Bachelor of General Studies program. ce.byu.edu/bgs/ One of the slogans next to a picture of a middle-aged woman is “Is it **your **turn?”

 

[PaulDupre1]

They don’t call BYU “the happy hunting ground” for nothing.