W
why_me
Guest
So now Joe wrote the book? I thought that you were a rigdon as author fan. Please tell me how Joe wrote the book. I am curious to hear your opinion.
- Status
W
why_me
Guest
Not exactly. He also wants us to be on our toes, doing works of charity and making a difference in our communities. But yes, sometimes he wants us to be on our knees. But not always.
W
why_me
Guest
Well, the mormon god is different from your god. How so? And the mormon god is contrary to the christian god of the trinity. How so? And of course, people are conned into becoming mormon? How so? I think that the mormon explanation is a simple one about who god is and what god is. I see no con going on.
That god was once a man is a beautiful concept. To understand that god was once like me shows that he has a deep personal understanding of who I am. I see nothing wrong with that perspective. Mormons have discussed this in their first priesthood lesson for this year. I see no con going on.
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why_me
Guest
You may not know this tom but Joseph Smith edited the book of mormon in 1837 to say ‘pure and delightsome’. The change in 1981 was just to return to that translation.
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why_me
Guest
Here is how the book was written from various newspapers of that period:
Everybody will have an opinion, but the best thing to do is look at the primary sources of the information. FAIR has been collecting every primary source quotation we can find related to the translation of the BoM, and there are quite a few of them. We have been listing the instrument used (Nephite interpreters, seer stone, etc.), whether or not a curtain is mentioned, and who the scribe was at the time. One of the interesting things that we found was that it appears that even the Nephite interpreters (prior to the use of the seer stone) were placed in a hat by Joseph Smith. The curtain isn’t mentioned much…I believe it was only used in the beginning. The bulk of the BoM was translated using the seer stone in the hat.
The accounts are posted in the FAIR Wiki in these subarticles:
en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Method/1829-1835
en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Method/1836-1840
en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Method/1841-1845
en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Method/1846-1900
en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Method/1900-2000
Here’s the earliest list for 1829–1835 (I didn’t include the footnotes, but they are listed in the wiki article):
1829
Hostile news account 11 August 1829
and after penetrating “mother earth” a short distance, the [Golden] Bible was found, together with a huge pair of spectacles! He had been directed, however, not to let any mortal being examine them, “under no less penalty” than instant death! They were therefore nicely wrapped up and excluded from the “vulgar gaze of poor wicked mortals!” It was said that the leaves of the bible were plates of gold, about 8 inches long, 6 wide, and one eighth of an inch thick, on which were engraved characters or hyeroglyphics. By placing the spectacles in a hat, and looking into it, Smith could (he said so, at least,) interpret these characters.[1]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: “Spectacles” (i.e., Nephite interpreters)
- Method: Spectacles in hat
“In the autumn of 1827 a man named Joseph Smith of Manchester, in Ontario County, said that he had been visited by the spirit of the Almighty in a dream, and informed that in a certain hill in that town was deposited a Golden Bible, containing an ancient record of divine origin. He states that after the third visit from the same spirit in a dream he proceeded to the spot, removed earth, and there found the bible, together with a large pair of spectacles. He had also been directed to let no mortal see them under the penalty of immediate death, which injunction he steadfastly adheres to. The treasure consisted of a number of gold plates, about 8 inches long, 6 wide, and one eighth of an inch thick, on which were engraved hieroglyphics. By placing the spectacles in a hat and looking into it, Smith interprets the characters into the English language.”] [2]
- Scribe: Martin Harris
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: “Spectacles”
- Method: Spectacles in hat
W
why_me
Guest
1830
Martin Harris (eyewitness), paraphrased and reprinted in New-York Telescope 20 Feb 1830
…he proceeded to the spot, and found the bible, with a huge pair of spectacles…He is said to have shown some of these characters to Professor Samuel L. Mitchell, of this city, who could not translate them. Martin Harris returned, and set Joseph Smith to the business of translating them: who, “by placing the spectacles in a hat and looking into them, Joseph Smith said he could interpret these characters.” [3]
The inspired man who wrote the “Gold Bible” on “plates of brass,” in the “reformed Egyptian” language, on account of its brevity, as we are informed, through the medium of one of these psuedo prophets, never had half the trouble that we experience in deciphering the unseemly scrolls of this dark representative of old Pluto’s dominions. His letters and communications are all written in heathen Greek, and the characters so fine and imperfect, that notwithstanding the great power of our editorial spectacles, we have in one instance burnt the scrawl in despair! [4]
Martin Harris (eyewitness), paraphrased and reprinted in New-York Telescope 20 Feb 1830
…he proceeded to the spot, and found the bible, with a huge pair of spectacles…He is said to have shown some of these characters to Professor Samuel L. Mitchell, of this city, who could not translate them. Martin Harris returned, and set Joseph Smith to the business of translating them: who, “by placing the spectacles in a hat and looking into them, Joseph Smith said he could interpret these characters.” [3]
- Scribe: Martin Harris
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: “Spectacles”
- Method: Spectacles in hat
The inspired man who wrote the “Gold Bible” on “plates of brass,” in the “reformed Egyptian” language, on account of its brevity, as we are informed, through the medium of one of these psuedo prophets, never had half the trouble that we experience in deciphering the unseemly scrolls of this dark representative of old Pluto’s dominions. His letters and communications are all written in heathen Greek, and the characters so fine and imperfect, that notwithstanding the great power of our editorial spectacles, we have in one instance burnt the scrawl in despair! [4]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: “Spectacles”?
- Method: Not specified
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why_me
Guest
Hostile news account circa May 1830
A fellow by the name of Joseph Smith, who resides in the upper part of Susquehanna county, has been, for the last two years we are told, employed in dedicating as he says, by inspiration, a new bible. He pretended that he had been entrusted by God with a golden bible which had been always hidden from the world. Smith would put his face into a hat in which he had a white stone, and pretend to read from it, while his coadjutor transcribed. [5]
Now the rest of the acts of the magician [Walters], how his mantle fell upon the prophet Jo. Smith Jun. and how Jo. made a league with the spirit, who afterwards turned out to be an angel, and how he obtained the “Gold Bible,” Spectacles, and breast plate–will they not be faithfully recorded in the book of Pukei?” [6]
Hostile news account 7 July 1830
BOOK OF PUKEI.—Chap. 2. Contents.—…8 spectacles-breastplate-Oliver, &c…[Joseph] art chosen to interpret the book, which Mormon has written, to wit, the gold Bible? 8. “And lo! I answered the spirit of the money diggers saying, how can these things be, as I can neither read nor write? And he said unto me” ‘I will give thee a breast plate, to keep thee from evil, and I will send thee an assistant, even Oliver, the pedagogue.’[7]
A fellow by the name of Joseph Smith, who resides in the upper part of Susquehanna county, has been, for the last two years we are told, employed in dedicating as he says, by inspiration, a new bible. He pretended that he had been entrusted by God with a golden bible which had been always hidden from the world. Smith would put his face into a hat in which he had a white stone, and pretend to read from it, while his coadjutor transcribed. [5]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Stone
- Method: In a hat
Now the rest of the acts of the magician [Walters], how his mantle fell upon the prophet Jo. Smith Jun. and how Jo. made a league with the spirit, who afterwards turned out to be an angel, and how he obtained the “Gold Bible,” Spectacles, and breast plate–will they not be faithfully recorded in the book of Pukei?” [6]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Spectacles and breast plate [Walters the magician is said to have had a “magic stone” which he took with him.]
- Method: Not specified
Hostile news account 7 July 1830
BOOK OF PUKEI.—Chap. 2. Contents.—…8 spectacles-breastplate-Oliver, &c…[Joseph] art chosen to interpret the book, which Mormon has written, to wit, the gold Bible? 8. “And lo! I answered the spirit of the money diggers saying, how can these things be, as I can neither read nor write? And he said unto me” ‘I will give thee a breast plate, to keep thee from evil, and I will send thee an assistant, even Oliver, the pedagogue.’[7]
- Scribe: Oliver Cowdery
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Spectacles and breast plate
- Method: Not specified
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why_me
Guest
Hostile news account 2 August 1830
the vices and follies of others, if rightly appreciated are full of instruction, & we only require JO SMITH’S Magic Spectacles, or some other powerful optical instrument to turn them to our own advantage. [8]
…which is said to be translated from Egyptian Hieroglyphics, on metal plates, by one Smith, who was enabled to read the characters by instruction from Angels… [9]
According to the narrative given by one of these disciples—Oliver Cowdery—at their late exhibition in Kirtland, this pretended Revelation was written on golden plates, or something resembling golden plates, of the thickness of tin—7 inches in length, 6 inches in breadth, and a pile about 6 inches deep. None among the most learned in the United States could read, and interpret the hand-writing, (save one, and he could decipher but a few lines correctly,) excepting this ignoramus, Joseph Smith, Jr. To him, they say, was given the spirit of interpretation; but he was ignorant of the art of writing, he employed this Oliver Cowdery and others to write, while he read, interpreted, and translated this mighty Revelation.[10]
You have probably heard of the Gold Bible taken from the earth by Joseph Smith, the money-digger. This he has translated from the Egyptian reformed language to English, by a pair of stone spectacles (provided by an angel) and a dark hat before his eyes.[11]
the vices and follies of others, if rightly appreciated are full of instruction, & we only require JO SMITH’S Magic Spectacles, or some other powerful optical instrument to turn them to our own advantage. [8]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: “Spectacles” (i.e., Nephite interpreters)
- Method: Not specified
…which is said to be translated from Egyptian Hieroglyphics, on metal plates, by one Smith, who was enabled to read the characters by instruction from Angels… [9]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Not specified
- Method: Taught by angels
According to the narrative given by one of these disciples—Oliver Cowdery—at their late exhibition in Kirtland, this pretended Revelation was written on golden plates, or something resembling golden plates, of the thickness of tin—7 inches in length, 6 inches in breadth, and a pile about 6 inches deep. None among the most learned in the United States could read, and interpret the hand-writing, (save one, and he could decipher but a few lines correctly,) excepting this ignoramus, Joseph Smith, Jr. To him, they say, was given the spirit of interpretation; but he was ignorant of the art of writing, he employed this Oliver Cowdery and others to write, while he read, interpreted, and translated this mighty Revelation.[10]
- Scribe: Oliver Cowdery
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Not specified
- Method: Spirit of inspiration
You have probably heard of the Gold Bible taken from the earth by Joseph Smith, the money-digger. This he has translated from the Egyptian reformed language to English, by a pair of stone spectacles (provided by an angel) and a dark hat before his eyes.[11]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Stone spectacles
- Method: Hat before eyes
W
why_me
Guest
Hostile news account 4 December 1830
In the Fall of 1827, a man named Joseph Smith of Manchester, Ontario county, N.Y. reported that he had three times been visited in a dream, by the spirit of the Almighty, and informed that in a certain hill in that town, was a Golden Bible, containing an ancient record of a divine nature and origin. On going to the spot he found buried the Bible with a huge pair of spectacles: The leaves (he said, tho’ he was not permitted to shew them) were plates of gold, about 8 inches long, 6 wide, and 1-8th of an inch thick, on which were engraved characters or hieroglyphicks, which with the spectacles he could interpret. Martin Harris an industrious farmer, caught the contagion, took some of the characters to different learned men to translate, but without success. He returned, set Smith to work at translating it, and has had it printed.[12]
Some year or two since the crdulous were amused with the tale that, guided by inspiration, some one had found many golden plates buried in the earth near Palmyra, Wayne county, in this state, upon which were revealed,in an unknown tongue, (an odd sort of revelation one would think) the whole duty of man. This the finder and comrade were enabled, by supernatural agency, to translate since which the book has been printed and travelling preachers have gone forth with it, to enlighten the world.[13]
This new Gospel they say was found in Ontario co. N.Y. and was discovered by an Angel of light, appearing in a dream to a man by the name of Smith, who, as directed, went to a certain place and dug from the earth a stone box, containing plates of gold, on which this gospel was engraved in characters unknown. The said Smith though a man so illiterate that he cannot write, was, by divine inspiration, enabled to give the true interpretation, and the man who wrote from the mouth of Smith, is one of the four mentioned above.[14]
In the Fall of 1827, a man named Joseph Smith of Manchester, Ontario county, N.Y. reported that he had three times been visited in a dream, by the spirit of the Almighty, and informed that in a certain hill in that town, was a Golden Bible, containing an ancient record of a divine nature and origin. On going to the spot he found buried the Bible with a huge pair of spectacles: The leaves (he said, tho’ he was not permitted to shew them) were plates of gold, about 8 inches long, 6 wide, and 1-8th of an inch thick, on which were engraved characters or hieroglyphicks, which with the spectacles he could interpret. Martin Harris an industrious farmer, caught the contagion, took some of the characters to different learned men to translate, but without success. He returned, set Smith to work at translating it, and has had it printed.[12]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Spectacles
- Method: Not specified
Some year or two since the crdulous were amused with the tale that, guided by inspiration, some one had found many golden plates buried in the earth near Palmyra, Wayne county, in this state, upon which were revealed,in an unknown tongue, (an odd sort of revelation one would think) the whole duty of man. This the finder and comrade were enabled, by supernatural agency, to translate since which the book has been printed and travelling preachers have gone forth with it, to enlighten the world.[13]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Not specified
- Method: Supernatural agency
This new Gospel they say was found in Ontario co. N.Y. and was discovered by an Angel of light, appearing in a dream to a man by the name of Smith, who, as directed, went to a certain place and dug from the earth a stone box, containing plates of gold, on which this gospel was engraved in characters unknown. The said Smith though a man so illiterate that he cannot write, was, by divine inspiration, enabled to give the true interpretation, and the man who wrote from the mouth of Smith, is one of the four mentioned above.[14]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Not specified
- Method: Supernatural agency
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why_me
Guest
Hostile news account 18 December 1830
At a recent period, an angel appeared to a poor ignorant man residing in, or near Palmyra, in Ontario county, in the State of New-York, and directed him to open the earth at a place designated, where he would find the new revelation engraved on plates of metal. In obedience to the celestial messenger, Smith repaired to the spot, and on opening the ground, discovered an oblong stone box, tightly closed with cement. He opened the sacred depository, and found enclosed a bundle of plates resembling gold, carefully united at one edge with three silver wires, so that they opened like a book. The plates were about seven inches long and six broad, and the whole pile was about seven inches long and six broad, and was about six inches deep; each plate about the thickness of tin. They were engraved in a character unintelligible to the learned men of the United States, to many of whom it is said they have been presented. The angel afterwards appeared to the three individuals, and showed them the plates. To Smith was given to transcribe the character which he was enabled to do by looking through two semitransparent stones, but as he was ignorant of the writing, Cowdry and others wrote as Smith interpreted. They say, that part of the plates escaped from them in a supernatural manner, and are again to be revealed when the events of time shall require them.[15]
Hostile news account 7 February 1831
He that touched these stones appeared unto the brother of Jared, and said: “Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.” Two of these stones were sealed up with the plates, and became the spectacles of Joseph Smith, according to a prediction uttered before Abraham was born…This prophet Smith, through his stone spectacles, wrote on the plates of Nephi, in his book of Mormon, every error and almost every truth discussed in New York for the last ten years…[it] is, without exaggeration, the meanest book in the English language: but it is a translation made through stone spectacles, in a dark room, and in the hat of the prophet Smith, from the reformed Egyptian!!![16]
At a recent period, an angel appeared to a poor ignorant man residing in, or near Palmyra, in Ontario county, in the State of New-York, and directed him to open the earth at a place designated, where he would find the new revelation engraved on plates of metal. In obedience to the celestial messenger, Smith repaired to the spot, and on opening the ground, discovered an oblong stone box, tightly closed with cement. He opened the sacred depository, and found enclosed a bundle of plates resembling gold, carefully united at one edge with three silver wires, so that they opened like a book. The plates were about seven inches long and six broad, and the whole pile was about seven inches long and six broad, and was about six inches deep; each plate about the thickness of tin. They were engraved in a character unintelligible to the learned men of the United States, to many of whom it is said they have been presented. The angel afterwards appeared to the three individuals, and showed them the plates. To Smith was given to transcribe the character which he was enabled to do by looking through two semitransparent stones, but as he was ignorant of the writing, Cowdry and others wrote as Smith interpreted. They say, that part of the plates escaped from them in a supernatural manner, and are again to be revealed when the events of time shall require them.[15]
- Scribe: Oliver Cowdery and others
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Two semitransparent stones [the Nephite interpreters?]
- Method: Not specified
Hostile news account 7 February 1831
He that touched these stones appeared unto the brother of Jared, and said: “Behold I am Jesus Christ. I am the Father and the Son.” Two of these stones were sealed up with the plates, and became the spectacles of Joseph Smith, according to a prediction uttered before Abraham was born…This prophet Smith, through his stone spectacles, wrote on the plates of Nephi, in his book of Mormon, every error and almost every truth discussed in New York for the last ten years…[it] is, without exaggeration, the meanest book in the English language: but it is a translation made through stone spectacles, in a dark room, and in the hat of the prophet Smith, from the reformed Egyptian!!![16]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Spectacles (two stones); “stone spectacles.”
- Method: In a dark room, in the hat
W
why_me
Guest
Hostile news account 7 March1831
the surface of which was covered with hieroglyphic characters, unintelligible to Smith, the finder, who could [218] not read English. However the angel (ghost!) that discovered the plates to him, likewise informed him that he would be inspired to translate the inscriptions without looking at the plates, while an amanuensis would record his infallible reading…[17]
Harris declares, that when he acted as amanuenses, and wrote the translation, as Smith dictated, such was his fear of the Divine displeasure, that a screen (sheet) was suspended between the prophet and himself… [18]
During the trial it was shown that the Book of Mormon was brought to light by the same magic power by which he pretended to tell fortunes, discover hidden treasures, &c. Oliver Cowdry, one of the three witnesses to the book, testified under oath, that said Smith found with the plates, from which he translated his book, two transparent stones, resembling glass, set in silver bows. That by looking through these, he was able to read in English, the formed Egyptian characters, which were engraved on the plates. So much for the gift and power of God. by which Smith says he translate his book. Two transparent stones, undoubtedly of the same properties, and the gift of the same spirit as the one in which he looked to find his neighbor’s goods.[19]
He [Joseph] has 10 year’s translating to do; he looks in a small stone he has, and there reads the will of the Lord and writes it for the good of his fellow men.[20]
the surface of which was covered with hieroglyphic characters, unintelligible to Smith, the finder, who could [218] not read English. However the angel (ghost!) that discovered the plates to him, likewise informed him that he would be inspired to translate the inscriptions without looking at the plates, while an amanuensis would record his infallible reading…[17]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Not specified
- Method: Inspired; results would be “infallible”
- Plates: not necessary to look at while translating
Harris declares, that when he acted as amanuenses, and wrote the translation, as Smith dictated, such was his fear of the Divine displeasure, that a screen (sheet) was suspended between the prophet and himself… [18]
- Scribe: Martin Harris
- Curtain: Present
- Instrument: Not specified
- Method: Not specified
During the trial it was shown that the Book of Mormon was brought to light by the same magic power by which he pretended to tell fortunes, discover hidden treasures, &c. Oliver Cowdry, one of the three witnesses to the book, testified under oath, that said Smith found with the plates, from which he translated his book, two transparent stones, resembling glass, set in silver bows. That by looking through these, he was able to read in English, the formed Egyptian characters, which were engraved on the plates. So much for the gift and power of God. by which Smith says he translate his book. Two transparent stones, undoubtedly of the same properties, and the gift of the same spirit as the one in which he looked to find his neighbor’s goods.[19]
- Scribe: Oliver Cowdery
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Two transparent stones with plates; distinguished from the seer stone or “peep” stone.
- Method: Looking through the stones
He [Joseph] has 10 year’s translating to do; he looks in a small stone he has, and there reads the will of the Lord and writes it for the good of his fellow men.[20]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: A stone; not clear if this is translation of Book of Mormon or other revelation
- Method: Not specified
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why_me
Guest
Ezra Booth (non-eyewitness) 27 Oct 1831
So also in translating.—The subject stands before his eyes in print, but it matters not whether his eyes are open or shut; he can see as well one way as the other…
These treasures were discovered several years since, by means of the dark glass, the same with which Smith says he translated most of the Book of Mormon.[21]
The preacher said he [Joseph] found in the same place two stones, with which he was enabled by placing them over his eyes and putting his head in a dark corner, to decypher the hieroglyphics on the plates![22]
Nancy Towel - visiting critic 1832
He accordingly went; and was directed by the angel to a certain spot of ground, where was deposited a “Box”— [138] and in that box contained “Plates,” which resembled gold; also, a pair of “interpreters,” (as he called them,) that resembled spectacles; by looking into which, he could read a writing engraven upon the plates, though to himself, in a tongue unknown.[23]
Smith with divine aid, was able to translate the plates…[24]
So also in translating.—The subject stands before his eyes in print, but it matters not whether his eyes are open or shut; he can see as well one way as the other…
These treasures were discovered several years since, by means of the dark glass, the same with which Smith says he translated most of the Book of Mormon.[21]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: “dark glass” (? “peep stone” variant)
- Method: Eyes open or closed
The preacher said he [Joseph] found in the same place two stones, with which he was enabled by placing them over his eyes and putting his head in a dark corner, to decypher the hieroglyphics on the plates![22]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Two stones (Nephite interpreters)
- Method: Place over eyes, in the dark
Nancy Towel - visiting critic 1832
He accordingly went; and was directed by the angel to a certain spot of ground, where was deposited a “Box”— [138] and in that box contained “Plates,” which resembled gold; also, a pair of “interpreters,” (as he called them,) that resembled spectacles; by looking into which, he could read a writing engraven upon the plates, though to himself, in a tongue unknown.[23]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Pair of interpreters/spectacles
- Method: Able to read the writing engraven on plates
Smith with divine aid, was able to translate the plates…[24]
- Scribe: Not specified
- Curtain: Not specified
- Instrument: Not specified
- Method: Divine aid
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why_me
Guest
There are many more hostile accounts of how the book of mormon came to be but people can search for them in the links. But to my knowledge no one reported on seeing a manucript before Joseph, nor did anyone claim that Joseph Smith was seen with pen and paper in hand going off to the woods to write a book.
But from the hostile news reports we can see why non-mormons would be just a little confused about Joseph Smith.
But from the hostile news reports we can see why non-mormons would be just a little confused about Joseph Smith.
P
PaulDupre
Guest
This particular passage has always stunned me (not in a good way). The bolded phrase makes it plain that the BOM author(s) assumed that a white person could not possibly find a black person “enticing” (i.e.: attractive). It is an incredibly shallow and racist 19th-century American assumption.
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PaulDupre
Guest
Why Me:
Wow! 14 posts in a row! That must be a new record.
Wow! 14 posts in a row! That must be a new record.
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why_me
Guest
(Edited)
[N]o press reports reported that Joseph Smith was intelligent and was seen with pen and paper in hand. I have no idea how Joseph Smith could have written the book without a manuscript. But since Tom is claiming that Joseph wrote the book, I hope that he can tell us.
[N]o press reports reported that Joseph Smith was intelligent and was seen with pen and paper in hand. I have no idea how Joseph Smith could have written the book without a manuscript. But since Tom is claiming that Joseph wrote the book, I hope that he can tell us.
R
Returning_Home
Guest
I’m fully against the falsehoods of Mormonism and I have no problem saying the Smith was an intelligent con-man. While he may not have had much formal education, he still had the raw stuff that makes one of at least average intelligence. We also know that he had a very vivid imagination, too.
Another matter to point out is that magic rocks were common in Mormonism’s early days as they were in American folk magic preceding Mormonism.
As far as Smith writing the BOM, refer to the PM I sent you, the one detailing just a few of the New Testament references found in the BOM, some used about 600 years before they were written. Not only that, but they weren’t references to just any Bible, but specifically to the KJV first published in 1611, clearly indicating that the BOM authors had ready access to the text, coincidentally the same one that Smith is known to have owned.
R
Returning_Home
Guest
This sentence should have an asterisk next to it because it has to be translated to non-Mormons; it implies the “one in purpose” bit attributed to the LDS version of the Godhead, something that’s nowhere in any of the standard works.
R
Returning_Home
Guest
I can answer that one. According to the BOM, the Bible is missing many ‘plain and precious things,’ a phrase used seven times in 1 Nephi 13:24-42 so as not to be misunderstood about its position on the matter. While the church has canonized it, it also places great doubt on it, and tries to clarify it through the lense of the BOM.
It then makes sense to ask why God would give us faulty scriptures. The Mormon God told Joseph Smith to ‘retranslate’ the Bible, which he claims to have done, though the church doesn’t use it. (it’s actually one of the slowest moving books sold at Deseret Book CO)
Why? Because as the Mormons were packing up to head west, Brigham Young sent men to get the Joseph Smith Translation from his widow, Emma, who refused to give the the full manuscript. She did, however, give them some notes that Smith made.
Since the Bible is incomplete or in error, it leaves the church free to insert whatever they like and simply tell the congregation that it has been ‘restored.’ The church says that it values the Bible, but it’s actually somewhere below the BOM as far as reliabiity goes.
That said, the church still uses whatever it likes from the Bible and simply discards the rest as a mistranslation or mistake. Without a correct version, however, they have no idea what they’re quoting is correct or not.
Does that clear it up for you?
R
Returning_Home
Guest
That all said, when’s the last time anyone actually quoted the Book of Abraham? The church has worked pretty hard to distance itself from the notions of Kolob and that blacks are inferior to whites, never attaining the priesthood until *after *Christ’s return.
And what of the mistake that Jesus made in 3 Nephi 23-20:22? He was trying to quote Moses (Deut 18:15) but instead, quoted the author’s words (most likely Peter) that paraphrased that very statement in Acts 3:22-23.
How could the real, true, and living Jesus Christ make such a mistake?
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