Mormon Confusion

[hosemonkey]

Yep, and here’s good ol’ hosemonkey, who constantly posts rude comments and assertions without any sort of support from the Bible, church fathers, catechism, historical studies, or, well…anything.

You go, hosemonkey! Because it’s all about how big your mouth is, not how good your argument is.

Everything that you people drag up again has already been very well refuted on these forums long since. You offer no new arguments to support your false religion or your false “prophet”. Debating mormon “theology” with useless because you hide behind a veil of lies, evasions and BS. My mission is to expose your cult for what it is, an organization dedicated to controlling and stifling the truth under the guise of “apologetics”, which are not apologetics at all, but a blatant attempt at proselytising unsuspecting inquirers. I dislike liars and evaders intensely, especially when a person’s eternal salvation is at stake. You guys are attempting to sell snake-oil under the cover of “explaining mormon beliefs.” "If it looks like a skunk, if it walks like a skunk and if it smells like a skunk, it’s probably a skunk."I do not need the Bible (which you pervert), the Church Fathers or anything else but history, to tell me that you are phony. Error has no rights. Full stop. Shame on you.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I guess we’ll see what happens, then.

You bringing up Steve Benson brought back a memory of this exmormon I knew once. He decided to test the LDS teaching that you know truth by “feeling”. So, he got into a lot of different beliefs, really deep into them not surface, with the sole intent of seeing if he got the Holy-Ghost-I-feel-the-truth feeling that Mormons are jonesing after all the time. He got it, everywhere he went, and he went some very strange places (purposely).

He used to make me laugh, with all the things he was into, but I told him he was wasting his time, as I already knew from long experience that you can get that feeling from a Hallmark card commercial.

 

[BDawg]

Everything that you people drag up again has already been very well refuted on these forums long since. You offer no new arguments to support your false religion or your false “prophet”. Debating mormon “theology” with useless because you hide behind a veil of lies, evasions and BS. My mission is to expose your cult for what it is, an organization dedicated to controlling and stifling the truth under the guise of “apologetics”, which are not apologetics at all, but a blatant attempt at proselytising unsuspecting inquirers. I dislike liars and evaders intensely, especially when a person’s eternal salvation is at stake. You guys are attempting to sell snake-oil under the cover of “explaining mormon beliefs.” "If it looks like a skunk, if it walks like a skunk and if it smells like a skunk, it’s probably a skunk."I do not need the Bible (which you pervert), the Church Fathers or anything else but history, to tell me that you are phony. Error has no rights. Full stop. Shame on you.

That’s right, hosemonkey! You don’t need to support your points. Why should you? Everyone who disagrees with you is so obviously lying that it would be superfluous to actually make an argument for your accusations. All you really need to do is draw attention to the cesspool of deception by using awesome words like “evaders,” telegram jargon like “Full stop,” and down-home expressions about skunks.

So keep it up, hosemonkey! Don’t listen to the nay-sayers who deny the eternal value of your skunk-detecting skills. If you smell a skunk, it’s damned sure a skunk, even if you can’t even articulate what the hell a skunk is.

 

[po18guy]

Yep, and here’s good ol’ hosemonkey, who constantly posts rude comments and assertions without any sort of support from the Bible, church fathers, catechism, historical studies, or, well…anything.

You go, hosemonkey! Because it’s all about how big your mouth is, not how good your argument is.

Well, it’s useless, since Mormons and Christians speak two different languages related to two different religions. What’s the point?

Besides, hosemonkey used all of the spar varnish back when he was on the boats, so there’s none left to varnish the truth with.

Ecumenical discussions might produce some fruit. Theological discussions are a waste of time.

 

[hosemonkey]

That’s right, hosemonkey! You don’t need to support your points. Why should you? Everyone who disagrees with you is so obviously lying that it would be superfluous to actually make an argument for your accusations. All you really need to do is draw attention to the cesspool of deception by using awesome words like “evaders,” telegram jargon like “Full stop,” and down-home expressions about skunks.

So keep it up, hosemonkey! Don’t listen to the nay-sayers who deny the eternal value of your skunk-detecting skills. If you smell a skunk, it’s damned sure a skunk, even if you can’t even articulate what the hell a skunk is.

 

[RebeccaJ]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jlv/lowres/jlvn124l.jpg

 

[hosemonkey]

All you really need to do is draw attention to the cesspool of deception

by using awesome words like “evaders,” telegram jargon like “Full stop,” and down-home expressions about skunks.

“Cesspool of deception.” Thank you, you articulated my thoughts exactly. That is perfectly what mormonism is; **“A cesspool of deception.” **Do I need to explain further, or did you get that part?

 

[hosemonkey]

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jlv/lowres/jlvn124l.jpg

Priceless! A
true mixed marriage, a JW and a mormon. (The mods will probably get me for that, but I’ll take the hit.)

 

[BDawg]

I have tried to make my points very clear to you so that you do not have to peer through a smokescreen to get my meaning. You have a problem with comprehension? Do you not understand the skunk analogy? I know very well what a skunk is. Let me explain. A skunk is a small furry mammal. not very bright and carrying a powerful stench. I say that those of your ilk bear a strong resemblance to this creature. That’s what a skunk is. Snake oil sir, that is what you purvey. Again, full stop.

 

[hosemonkey]

What are you so bitter about, Oh Fount of Every Insult?

Not bitter, by all means. I dislike liars and evaders intensely, I dislike slickers who use obfuscation to deceive. I dislike those who do not state all the facts up front. If you believe something, be man enough to say so without trying to conceal material facts. Do not attempt to evade by telling me that when your "prophet speaks, “it is only his opinion” as other mormons have done. Do not pee on my leg and tell me that it is raining. This is the way you people do business and because of this fact, you have NO credibility. I will continue to stomp on your tail as necessary.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hi hosemonkey, that was more in support of po180guy’s post. lol. I think some sort of picture association/psychology thing just emerged from there, somewhere.

Hi BDawg, yes even the most rabid ex-mormon is capable of thinking. Should I explain where the pricks are coming from? You hold this semi-ECF/Tertullian argument in your “my most favorite documents I’ve ever written in my life” file, tell us you won’t be so rude as to start a thread, but look for any opportunity to unroll your scrolls across the desk…doesn’t matter the discussion, you have the same argument.

Now, I don’t hold this against you, as I tend to wait around to see what it is you are doing. I suspect that you are trying to undermine the faith of all good Catholics, which I think is a hopeful point for you, where you could do a quick shuffle and bring out the best “God loves you and has a plan for you, that’s how much he loves you” shpeel.

or

I wonder if you teeter on the edge, an inkling, and idea, that there is something up with those Catholics, maybe they know something, but what about Tertullian?

Whatever it is, it gets under the skin of us former Mormons, who recognize these tactics as common Mormon proselyting techniques. Hosemonkey apparently couldn’t hold his breath any longer. I know Mormons, and sure, I agree with Hosemonkey, but what I haven’t figure out yet, is if you are doing this on purpose or not, as many an RM has this so ingrained into them, they don’t even realize it when they are doing it. Sort of like, a personal tick, everyone notices that you clang the change around in your pockets, but you have no idea.

In the meantime, may I recommend reading the Gospel of John…my favorite.

 

[zaffiroborant]

He used to make me laugh, with all the things he was into, but I told him he was wasting his time, as I already knew from long experience that you can get that feeling from a Hallmark card commercial.

And then you have Bonneville International with their Heartsell (registered trade mark) program. Great use of RM’s.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And then you have Bonneville International with their Heartsell (registered trade mark) program. Great use of RM’s.

Same thing.

 

[BDawg]

If you believe something, be man enough to say so without trying to conceal material facts. Do not attempt to evade by telling me that when your "prophet speaks, “it is only his opinion” as other mormons have done.

I’m sorry–do you have some information I don’t? Are you saying that Mormons actually do believe that every word that comes out of the prophet’s mouth is Absolute Truth? Well, if that’s what you are saying, then you are flatly WRONG. And here’s the thing–I’m actually going to offer some support for my assertion. If you click here, you will be taken to a discussion of this point in an LDS Church Educational System manual.

Once again, you have no idea what you are talking about, but you want to get by on insults and unsubstantiated accusations.

 

[BDawg]

You hold this semi-ECF/Tertullian argument in your “my most favorite documents I’ve ever written in my life” file, tell us you won’t be so rude as to start a thread, but look for any opportunity to unroll your scrolls across the desk…doesn’t matter the discussion, you have the same argument.

Hi Rebecca,

You know, different people show up on this forum, and often ask the same questions. Why shouldn’t I re-use an argument that nobody could refute last time? Do you expect me to come up with a brand new argument every time someone new shows up asking about the LDS doctrine of God?

Now, I don’t hold this against you, as I tend to wait around to see what it is you are doing. I suspect that you are trying to undermine the faith of all good Catholics, which I think is a hopeful point for you, where you could do a quick shuffle and bring out the best “God loves you and has a plan for you, that’s how much he loves you” shpeel.

Lost me there. But notice that I typically only post on threads where people are asking or making comments about Mormonism. If that’s my sneaky strategy for undermining the faith of all Catholics, it seems fairly inefficient.

I wonder if you teeter on the edge, an inkling, and idea, that there is something up with those Catholics, maybe they know something, but what about Tertullian?

Lost me there, too. What about Tertullian?

Whatever it is, it gets under the skin of us former Mormons, who recognize these tactics as common Mormon proselyting techniques.

Wow. Quoting Tertullian is a common Mormon proselyting technique? Or was it re-using the same argument when the same point comes up at a later time? Boy, I feel so dirty!

Hosemonkey apparently couldn’t hold his breath any longer. I know Mormons, and sure, I agree with Hosemonkey, but what I haven’t figure out yet, is if you are doing this on purpose or not, as many an RM has this so ingrained into them, they don’t even realize it when they are doing it. Sort of like, a personal tick, everyone notices that you clang the change around in your pockets, but you have no idea.

I’ll come clean for you, Rebecca. I am PURPOSEFULLY quoting Tertullian and other ECFs, REPEATEDLY. And here’s my nastiest little secret. I would LOVE it if Catholics around the world flocked to the LDS Church because of my posts on this forum. But I don’t really expect that, so I would be satisfied if my posts helped some people understand what Mormons believe and why they believe it. So while I am a skulking, nasty RM who can’t stop my urge to proselytize, at least I’m a minimalist about it.

 

[hosemonkey]

I’m sorry–do you have some information I don’t? Are you saying that Mormons actually do believe that every word that comes out of the prophet’s mouth is Absolute Truth?

You did not read my post carefully, did you? I said that while mormons believe that they have a living “prophet,seer and revelator,” they will evade scrutiny by saying that “well, the prophet is only stating his own opinion” while at the same time believing that he speaks with the “voice of God.” Is this not mormon belief? If not, why bother listening to some old man in Salt Lake City? It is only when you people get backed against the wall that you attempt to weasel out by saying that the “prophet” does not speak for God, but for himself. Who IS the authority in your “church?” Or does everybody “roll your own?”

 

[hosemonkey]

Hi Rebecca,

You know, different people show up on this forum, and often ask the same questions. Why shouldn’t I re-use an argument that nobody could refute last time?

a skulking, nasty RM who can’t stop my urge to proselytize, at least I’m a minimalist about it.So, you admit that you are here to proselytise? Do you know that you are violating forum rules?

[/QUOTE]

 

[zerinus]

zerinus,

THe point is that the passages I cited (as published by the church in order to teach new members) supported what I said, when you said they did not. If you choose to disregard official church teachings because you disagree, that’s your business I suppose, but I’m on firm ground claiming that it’s something that Mormons must grapple with. After all, this is information presented to new members in Sunday School in an official capacity. Your restrictions are artificial and very much your own.

Actually, they are not. That is what Church leaders have counselled us to do. I refer you to this post on my Blog for further explanation:

zerinus.blogspot.com/2007/08/what-constitutes-official-lds-doctrine.html

With regard to Joseph Smith’s teaching in the King Follett discourse, Gordon B. Hinckley has made some comments about that which has already been discussed here several times, such as in the following posts:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3872977
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1779012

See the discussion that followed the second link.

zerinus

 

[BDawg]

You did not read my [post carefully, did you? I said that while mormons believe that they have a living “prophet,seer and revelator,” they will evade scrutiny by saying that “well, the prophet is only stating his own opinion” while at the same time believing that he speaks with the “voice of God.” Is this not mormon belief? If not, why bother listening to some old man in Salt Lake City? It is only when you people get backed against the wall that you attempt to weasel out by saying that the “prophet” does not speak for God, but for himself. Who IS the authority in your “church?” Or does everybody “roll your own?”

, in which Pope Innocent IV authorized the torture of heretics? Do you believe heretics ought to be tortured? Or was the Pope simply speaking as a fallible human being in this instance? Oh, so he was just speaking as a fallible human being?

[Note: The following is a direct quotation of hosemonkey, with words like “prophet” replaced by “Pope” and “mormon” replaced by “Catholic.” For those inclined to take this argument seriously, please realize that I am parodying hosemonkey’s point to show that said point is utterly worthless, coming from a Catholic. I’m not holding my breath for him to get it, though.]

While Catholics believe that they have an “infallible” Pope, they will evade scrutiny by saying that “well, the Pope is only stating his own opinion” while at the same time believing that he speaks “infallibly.” Is this not Catholic belief? If not, why bother listening to some old man in the Vatican? It is only when you people get backed against the wall that you attempt to weasel out by saying that the “Pope” does not speak for God, but for himself. Who IS the authority in your “church?”

So what do you say, hoseweasel? Your back is against the wall–are you going to own up to accepting every word of every Papal statement as infallibly correct? Be a man!

[/QUOTE]

 

[BDawg]

I could not care less what mormons believe or why they believe it. I do know that mormons are duped by a carefully thought-out sales program that does not tell them the truth. It’s the dishonesty that chaps me.