Mormon doctrine in a nutshell!

[aquabatix]

if wine was so frowned upon, and Jesus is the ULTIMATE example for all of us, why did He drink it? This goes to show that, yes, drinking wine in excess, or to get drunk was not good. BUT, it was not a bad thing at it’s root. Jesus drank it, and so had many many prophets and Holy men and women before Him. The Mormon practice of completely outlawing wine is misguided. Jesus did not outlaw it, neither should we. When we celebrate the Eucharist, or for LDS have communion since they don’t believe in transubstantiation, we should use wine as instructed by Jesus Himself. As I stated before, using water is disrespectful and heretical.

 

[RC_Matt]

The Mormon practice of completely outlawing wine is misguided. Jesus did not outlaw it, neither should we. When we celebrate the Eucharist, or for LDS have communion since they don’t believe in transubstantiation, we should use wine as instructed by Jesus Himself. As I stated before, using water is disrespectful and heretical.

Mormons did use wine for sacraments up until about the turn of the century and I believe it is still technically permitted for that purpose only.

 

[ronald_g_w]

if wine was so frowned upon, and Jesus is the ULTIMATE example for all of us, why did He drink it? This goes to show that, yes, drinking wine in excess, or to get drunk was not good. BUT, it was not a bad thing at it’s root. Jesus drank it, and so had many many prophets and Holy men and women before Him. The Mormon practice of completely outlawing wine is misguided. Jesus did not outlaw it, neither should we. When we celebrate the Eucharist, or for LDS have communion since they don’t believe in transubstantiation, we should use wine as instructed by Jesus Himself. As I stated before, using water is disrespectful and heretical.

So a rehabilitated alcoholic can never partake of the Eucharist ?

 

[majick275]

So a rehabilitated alcoholic can never partake of the Eucharist ?

sure they can…one need only take one specie to fully receive God in the Eucharist. they need not take the wine.

the priest has to use wine in confecting the Eucharist and must consume the wine but in that case mustum can be used.

 

[why_me]

So a rehabilitated alcoholic can never partake of the Eucharist ?

The wine is optional. However, a problem emerges if the Mass is small and the priest decides to dip the host in the wine and offer it to the attendees. I have seen this done a couple of times. Then of course the alcoholic should refuse the host.

Also, it is possible for a priest to be an alcoholic. Then, of course he has an additional problem with the use of alcoholic wine at the communion.

 

[Jerusha]

Mustum is wine with the alcohol distilled off.

Inction (dipping the Host into the Wine) should be no problem for a recovering alcoholic with well-established sobriety. The body produces more alcohol than that in the normal digestive process.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I have to wonder whyme, what did you think of the readings at Mass yesterday? Jesus uses more than once analogies that are in references to wine. You whyme, are quite fond of saying mormons produce good fruit. Which, comes from Jesus saying He is the vine.

So, you think that Jesus was using all these teachings associated to wine but underlying it all, He was thinking that drinking wine is sinful???

Isaiah 5

1 Let me now sing of my friend, my friend’s song concerning his vineyard. My friend had a vineyard on a fertile hillside;
2 He spaded it, cleared it of stones, and planted the choicest vines; Within it he built a watchtower, and hewed out a wine press. Then he looked for the crop of grapes, but what it yielded was wild grapes.
3 Now, inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, judge between me and my vineyard:
4 What more was there to do for my vineyard that I had not done? Why, when I looked for the crop of grapes, did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 Now, I will let you know what I mean to do to my vineyard: Take away its hedge, give it to grazing, break through its wall, let it be trampled!
6 Yes, I will make it a ruin: it shall not be pruned or hoed, but overgrown with thorns and briers; I will command the clouds not to send rain upon it.
7 The vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah are his cherished plant; He looked for judgment, but see, bloodshed! for justice, but hark, the outcry!

Matthew 21

33 “Hear another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard, put a hedge around it, dug a wine press in it, and built a tower. Then he leased it to tenants and went on a journey.
34 When vintage time drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to obtain his produce.
35 But the tenants seized the servants and one they beat, another they killed, and a third they stoned.
36 Again he sent other servants, more numerous than the first ones, but they treated them in the same way.
37 Finally, he sent his son to them, thinking, ‘They will respect my son.’
38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and acquire his inheritance.’
39 They seized him, threw him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
40 What will the owner of the vineyard do to those tenants when he comes?”
41 They answered him, “He will put those wretched men to a wretched death and lease his vineyard to other tenants who will give him the produce at the proper times.”
42 Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the scriptures: ‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; by the Lord has this been done, and it is wonderful in our eyes’?
43 Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people that will produce its fruit.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The wine is optional. However, a problem emerges if the Mass is small and the priest decides to dip the host in the wine and offer it to the attendees. I have seen this done a couple of times. Then of course the alcoholic should refuse the host.

Also, it is possible for a priest to be an alcoholic. Then, of course he has an additional problem with the use of alcoholic wine at the communion.

If an alcoholic priest is among concelebrants he may simply receive the host and not partake of the chalice. Nevertheless, ordinaries may grant permission to use must or mustum to alcoholic priests who cannot ingest even the smallest quantity of alcohol. For this permission the priest must present a medical certificate.

Those who receive permission to use mustum are ordinarily prohibited from presiding at concelebrated Masses. But the decree provides for some exceptions. In such a case the alcoholic who presides may use mustum for his own Communion but he is to provide another chalice in which normal wine has been consecrated for the other celebrants.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

So a rehabilitated alcoholic can never partake of the Eucharist ?

As a person that was in AA I asked My sponsor not only about receiving Communion but about taking such medications that contain Alcohol and was told that in such case you are under the Grace of God and if you are receiving as the Body and Blood of the Lord you are ok. also if meds taken as directed and for the reason they are intended then you are ok. I never have had a problem for one thing in the Eucharist it is no longer wine , but the Blood of Christ.

 

[ronald_g_w]

As a person that was in AA I asked My sponsor not only about receiving Communion but about taking such medications that contain Alcohol and was told that in such case you are under the Grace of God and if you are receiving as the Body and Blood of the Lord you are ok. also if meds taken as directed and for the reason they are intended then you are ok. I never have had a problem for one thing in the Eucharist it is no longer wine , but the Blood of Christ.

thanks:thumbsup:

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

thanks:thumbsup:

your welcome.

 

[TFaith]

I have to wonder whyme, what did you think of the readings at Mass yesterday? Jesus uses more than once analogies that are in references to wine. You whyme, are quite fond of saying mormons produce good fruit. Which, comes from Jesus saying He is the vine.

So, you think that Jesus was using all these teachings associated to wine but underlying it all, He was thinking that drinking wine is sinful???

Isaiah 5

1 Let me now sing of my friend, my friend’s song concerning his vineyard. My friend had a vineyard on a fertile hillside;
2 He spaded it, cleared it of stones, and planted the choicest vines; Within it he built a watchtower, and hewed out a wine press. Then he looked for the crop of grapes, but what it yielded was wild grapes.
3 Now, inhabitants of Jerusalem and men of Judah, judge between me and my vineyard:
4 What more was there to do for my vineyard that I had not done? Why, when I looked for the crop of grapes, did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 Now, I will let you know what I mean to do to my vineyard: Take away its hedge, give it to grazing, break through its wall, let it be trampled!
6 Yes, I will make it a ruin: it shall not be pruned or hoed, but overgrown with thorns and briers; I will command the clouds not to send rain upon it.
7 The vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel, and the men of Judah are his cherished plant; He looked for judgment, but see, bloodshed! for justice, but hark, the outcry!

Matthew 21

33 “Hear another parable. There was a landowner who planted a vineyard, put a hedge around it, dug a wine press in it, and built a tower. Then he leased it to tenants and went on a journey.
34 When vintage time drew near, he sent his servants to the tenants to obtain his produce.
35 But the tenants seized the servants and one they beat, another they killed, and a third they stoned.
36 Again he sent other servants, more numerous than the first ones, but they treated them in the same way.
37 Finally, he sent his son to them, thinking, ‘They will respect my son.’
38 But when the tenants saw the son, they said to one another, ‘This is the heir. Come, let us kill him and acquire his inheritance.’
39 They seized him, threw him out of the vineyard, and killed him.
40 What will the owner of the vineyard do to those tenants when he comes?”
41 They answered him, “He will put those wretched men to a wretched death and lease his vineyard to other tenants who will give him the produce at the proper times.”
42 Jesus said to them, "Did you never read in the scriptures: ‘The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; by the Lord has this been done, and it is wonderful in our eyes’?
43 Therefore, I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people that will produce its fruit.

**
LOL… This just reminded me of my frist two mormon missionaries that came to my home when I firsst moved to Utah 12 years ago! I invited them in and this was my first question to them…needless to say, they didn’t have much to say and left…never to come back!
BTW… I do love and respect my fellow mormon friends, they are wonderful people with incredible family morals… juss misguided and lost. *

 

[why_me]

**

BTW… I do love and respect my fellow mormon friends, they are wonderful people with incredible family morals… juss misguided and lost. **

Really? They are lost? I don’t think so. If they have great family values and if they are wonderful people, I can’t say that they are lost.

If that were so, I wish that we had more lost people.

 

[why_me]

If an alcoholic priest is among concelebrants he may simply receive the host and not partake of the chalice. Nevertheless, ordinaries may grant permission to use must or mustum to alcoholic priests who cannot ingest even the smallest quantity of alcohol. For this permission the priest must present a medical certificate.

Those who receive permission to use mustum are ordinarily prohibited from presiding at concelebrated Masses. But the decree provides for some exceptions. In such a case the alcoholic who presides may use mustum for his own Communion but he is to provide another chalice in which normal wine has been consecrated for the other celebrants.

These days the problem could be solved with the use of non-alcoholic wine. No where does it say that wine needs to have an alcohol content, I believe.

 

[majick275]

Really? They are lost? I don’t think so. If they have great family values and if they are wonderful people, I can’t say that they are lost.

If that were so, I wish that we had more lost people.

this is obvious and shows a serious misunderstanding of christianity. being “wonderful people” and having “great family values” will not save anyone. that can be said of many muslims, sihks, pagans, etc. your actions here demonstrate your desire for others to become as lost as you are. what really needs to happen is for everyone to accept the true gospel, the fullness of which only exists in teh catholic church.

 

[majick275]

These days the problem could be solved with the use of non-alcoholic wine. No where does it say that wine needs to have an alcohol content, I believe.

that is not correct. you need to refer to canon law. (canon 924) mustum can be used which has extremely low alcohol content but actual fermented wine from grapes without additives or preservatives must be used.

 

[why_me]

that is not correct. you need to refer to canon law. (canon 924) mustum can be used which has extremely low alcohol content but actual fermented wine from grapes without additives or preservatives must be used.

But it can be non-alcohol contented, if it is pure.

 

[why_me]

this is obvious and shows a serious misunderstanding of christianity. being “wonderful people” and having “great family values” will not save anyone. that can be said of many muslims, sihks, pagans, etc. your actions here demonstrate your desire for others to become as lost as you are. what really needs to happen is for everyone to accept the true gospel, the fullness of which only exists in teh catholic church.

The reason why many mormons do have great family values and are wonderful people is because of the gospel that they follow. For a mormon, studying the bible and other mormon scripture is a part of a mormons daily life.

 

[AMDGtoo]

they have great family values

Boy, you need to stop taking your information from the commercials the LDS puts out and start talking to the non-LDS family members of converts! When you do, you’ll find that those “great family values” that are touted in the commercials only apply to the Mormon side of the family, if that. The LDS church has no problem insinuating itself in the lives of it’s members to the detriment of their families and their financial well-being.

 

[TFaith]

Really? They are lost? I don’t think so. If they have great family values and if they are wonderful people, I can’t say that they are lost.

If that were so, I wish that we had more lost people.

**

On the contrary… it just means that they are on to a great start.

Mormons are a few of the many lost sheep that hopefully will find there way back to the truth and the ways of Jesus Christ.

Only because a family has great moral value, doesn’t mean that they are saved. To be guided by a book that was written by man only over a century ago…doesn’t mean they are on the right path…it just means they are lost and we can only pray for them to find their way back.

God Bless and may the Lord shine upon you the truth. **