S
SirThomasMore
Guest
That certainly excludes the LDS I have seen here…except maybe MurdockPahoran;6970801 [QUOTE said:
- Status
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smad0142
Guest
You spoke of Private Revelation a lot, but I would argue that Mr. Smith recieved the BoM from Private Revelation. Jesus was seen and known by everybody, to the point that Roamn historians at the time mention him in their writings. Mr. Smith’s claims are based solely on his claims, i.e. private revelation.SMAD0142,
Another aspect of being able to see when the “precepts of men” have gotten in the way of personal revelation from God, is when a person would say that your grandma is “not a Christian” because she is a Mormon. This is a sure evidence that such a person making such a comment has been taught to make that comment by the “precepts of men.” They have not been taught to make that comment through personal revelation from the Holy Ghost. It simply would not happen. It means they are being guided by the precepts of men in order to have such a belief and make such a comment.
Have a wonderful day, and I hope you have learned to understand your grandma’s beliefs a little bit better, and can thus have great, kindly interactions with her.
I also got totally confused about your traditions of men comment.
Also a creed much earlier than Nicea, which I suppose must also be rejected by this Personage, is:
I believe in the Father almighty, and in Jesus Christ, our Savior; and in the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, in the holy Church, and in the remission of sins.
What do Mormons find objectionable in this creed?
*This comes from Denzinger who is quoting French and German archeaological (sp?) texts from the years 150-180 AD.
Thank you Parker, your kindness and paitence are a welcome respite from the usual tone of these threads.
C
catholic-rcia
Guest
First there is no better breed of people Parker…all fallen
You are sounding very Catholic. Not meant to be a jab
He is speaking to the Pharisees, and also teaching His disciples. He is also speaking to us today. Each one of us. For instance the story about the prodigal son is not about the fool over yonder, no it’s about all of us.
When you read the New Testament some want to say oh, he is speaking about them. In reality it is to us as well. If you are too much into do this and that you can miss Jesus. I tell those learning about the Catholic faith that I cannot follow the Ten Commandments and any one who tells you they can is lying. What I do to make up the difference is follow Jesus because He is the Ten Commandments.
My relationship with the Church is not about laws, how I wash my hands, how I dress, etc. .It’s about my relationship with Jesus. I always point to Confession Parker because that is what has set me free. Still does today, will tomorrow as well.
We do go through the beautiful motions of the Mass because of our praise to Jesus, because at its very core is Jesus Himself.
Parker you are sounding very Catholic, sanctification and all. Do you see the Holy Trinity here? Just a little bit? When you know that Christ in you is the only thing good about you where is the room for vain glory? It gets pushed away because of our reliance on Jesus. No other reason. If we think we can do it ourselves……vain Glory!
Of course it does creep in daily as we counter with our daily bread (Jesus) along with our confessions. I would by a book called the lives of the Saints and look for vain glory in them. Of courser they are sinners as well but they got what you are posting. For me the fear of God means distancing your self from His love, I fear this most. This is why I go to Confession and Communion. I remember from whence I came and do not want to ever go back. The fear of God is a love of God. Many do not understand this because God is not at the center of their lives where each sin is clearly seen, where middle ground is sought. If you are going to encounter your fallen nature, even though you think you’re pretty good. You better have a relationship with Jesus otherwise you will do everything you can to not show it or know it, on to ignoring it. This is where life gets distorted.
If you can die to yourself, allow Christ to come forth (Trinity) through you, step aside and let His works be done along with having a disdain for flattery and praise of any kind then you are on the right path. But at this point in spirituality your not checking your hands to make sure they are clean, or worried about what others may think when you mow your lawn on Sunday. You just love and you know where this love originates.
My Catholic faith has brought me to these understandings because of the Scriptures like the one you are pointing to. Yes I can become like Him, but only because He is present. I do understand the difference between God and being His creation. Jesus never being created like me. As he has always been one with His father. I Just get to share in what He has always had. I know my place Parker.
I am around other Catholics who have had the same revelations about what it means to follow Christ home. The same Revelations the Apostles received regarding whom He is. After a year of study it went from my head down to my heart and I was baptized into the family of believers. Its been twelve years now. Very easy to defend, yet it always has to be because of the love of people like you. Not afraid to say it Parker. With Christ I really do love you. No body here who is LDS has ever offended me. Although I wish some of the Catholics here would practice what the Church teaches and just love others to Christ. Why get angry? ….Vain Glory
There is a place of peace. I find this under the Crucifix looking up. His Church of sinners is imperfect in so many ways, yet He is percfect in it in so many ways. I never though I would say this looking back 12 years ago. And in my mind right now I can see Jesus on the Cross, “Farther forgive them for they know not what they do.” He meant it
N
nickybr38
Guest
WOW. How did this turn from ’ I’d like to learn more about your faith’ to ‘You have to defend your faith!’?
Sheesh.
I do have a question for the Mormons and I am not interested in debating. I just wish to know what you believe.
Where/what supports the idea that you each will be given your own planets to rule? (give biblical passages and/or BOM passages. I don’t mind either sources, I just wish to understand the reasoning)
Further, why believe in marriage after death when Jesus himself said there will be no marriage after death.
“In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage.” (Matthew 22:30)
I’m just curious to hear the LDS explanation for these two things. And I promise I won’t argue or debate the issue once you’ve given your answer but I can’t promise the same for other posters here. ):
I’ve read that Jesus is saying people do not MARRY in heaven but that doesn’t mean they cannot be married already… but that doesn’t make sense to me at all especially when considering the story given before he gives the above answer. Just curious to hear your interpretation.
Sheesh.
I do have a question for the Mormons and I am not interested in debating. I just wish to know what you believe.
Where/what supports the idea that you each will be given your own planets to rule? (give biblical passages and/or BOM passages. I don’t mind either sources, I just wish to understand the reasoning)
Further, why believe in marriage after death when Jesus himself said there will be no marriage after death.
“In the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage.” (Matthew 22:30)
I’m just curious to hear the LDS explanation for these two things. And I promise I won’t argue or debate the issue once you’ve given your answer but I can’t promise the same for other posters here. ):
I’ve read that Jesus is saying people do not MARRY in heaven but that doesn’t mean they cannot be married already… but that doesn’t make sense to me at all especially when considering the story given before he gives the above answer. Just curious to hear your interpretation.
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catholic-rcia
Guest
If you believe in the Christian Creed, that there is One God above all things and that by Him all things hold together, one creator of all things weather in all the heavens and of all the earths and of all powers and principalities, and that Jesus is the second person of the Godhead not created like us than we would have no problem calling you Christian. But these are not the beliefs of the LDS church. Your Church choose to go against all Christian churches because of one mans testimony against them. The contention started on the LDS side and continues. It originates with your Church and its prophet. I do see the Mormon Church becoming Christian in the future. You will loose a lot of members but those with open minds will stay and be rewarded with true humility. And then it may start to grow again as in the past. Offering not only a very clean family life but even more importantly offering it all up to Jesus and His Cross. As he did die for you Parker as well. Jesus needs to be your only hope in order to progress back to Him forever. Worshipping anything else but Jesus is worshipping false idols. This includes the family as well. We are all His. All worship goes to Him in Chritianity. When it does not we go to ConfessionSMAD0142,
Another aspect of being able to see when the “precepts of men” have gotten in the way of personal revelation from God, is when a person would say that your grandma is “not a Christian” because she is a Mormon. This is a sure evidence that such a person making such a comment has been taught to make that comment by the “precepts of men.” They have not been taught to make that comment through personal revelation from the Holy Ghost. It simply would not happen. It means they are being guided by the precepts of men in order to have such a belief and make such a comment.
Have a wonderful day, and I hope you have learned to understand your grandma’s beliefs a little bit better, and can thus have great, kindly interactions with her.
R
Returning_Home
Guest
It actually has nothing to do with Matthew because Smith was asking which church he should join. He was allegedly told none of them for they were all an abomination which, when combined with the chapter heading of 1 Nephi 14, makes it clear that there are only two churches: one of the Lamb, and of founded by Satan. If the church of the Lamb is the LDS, we know where the theology leaves the rest of us.
That said, it’s funny how the opinion of the church has changed now, trying so hard to appear Christian, when Christians have been denounced by Mormonism and are considered by the BOM, the very cornerstone of your faith, wrong in the sight of God.
I’ve asked this before and have never gotten an answer from you but here it is again: if all the churches on the face of the earth in 1820 were abominations before God, how have they ceased to be so now in our time? Is this just mere political correctness talking here?
And the underlying implication of your argument for santification is different when going from Mormon to Christian theology; to you that means becoming gods, for which there’s no Biblical support, but to us, it means receiving perfected bodies, though never achieving the level of Christ. Big difference.
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ParkerD
Guest
Catholic-RCIA,
That was exactly my point. All that language used in your post was taught you by the precepts of men, not by the Bible, and certainly not by the Holy Spirit through personal revelation. Peace to you.
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ParkerD
Guest
SMAD0142,
The point I glean from Christ’s words to the Pharisees where he quoted Isaiah, is similar to other times when He talked about the inward self versus outward appearances. A person can recite a “creed” such as the one you quoted here, and can do so on their deathbed, but may or may not have lived for one minute by the teachings of the Bible in how they treated others or how they really developed a relationship with the living Christ through the Holy Ghost enhancing and enlivening that relationship. It can be as though they think reciting the creed excuses behavior, or will excuse their behavior through how they will be judged, but they will be judged by their behavior and their repentance in the sincerity of their heart–not by what they said with their tongue. That was Christ’s message, over and over again.
One doesn’t find “creedal statements” in the Bible. The apostles didn’t teach them. Christ taught the Lord’s prayer as an example prayer, not as a creedal prayer to be memorized and recited except for purposes of teaching “how to pray”. He quoted scriptures from memory, thus showing that the scriptures ought to be in our minds and hearts, so that is different and if someone is going to memorize scripture and recite scripture while also engaging their heart in what they recite or teach, then I think that could be very worthwhile.
By the way, the word “Paraclete” is not in the Bible, nor are the words “the holy Church.” Also, if someone is going to be taught to live by beliefs from that quote, it ought to at least mention repentance rather than just “remission of sins”. Repentance and offering forgiveness to others are primary acts that a person ought to be involved with every day of their life, since we’re all imperfect and thus need those steps every day.
Thanks for your kindness also, SMAD. All the best to you. I hope you understand my comments, and will take it easy on your grandma.
P
ParkerD
Guest
NickyBR,
I only have a few minutes for quick answers here.
- The teaching is that men and women can become “like God and Christ” through the atonement of Christ, through sanctification by the Holy Ghost, and through making and keeping covenants, some of those involving priesthood-authorized and priesthood-administered ordinances. I haven’t read that the teaching doctrinally means “given your own planet to rule”, but it does mean “having a joint throne with Jesus Christ, the rightful Heir,” and does mean “bear rule” such as “make thee ruler over many things” and “power over the nations” as taught by the Savior (parable of the talents) and by John in Revelation.
- There have been a few threads on the subject of eternal marriage in recent months on this website, but to be brief:
Jesus answered the Sadducees that there would be no marriage in heaven for such persons as the unbelieving Sadducees, but that they would be “as the angels” instead.
Jesus had also taught that “what God hath joined together, let not man put asunder”, giving the example of the marriage of Adam and Eve who were married in an eternal union of marriage. You can look up those passages in Matthew. (If you want to read the older threads, let me know and I’ll find them in the past threads.)
Thanks for your kindness in asking, and wishing you all the best.
C
catholic-rcia
Guest
Dear Parker
The language I used came from the promtings of the Holy Spirit. What part is precepts of men? That there is only one God?
That is a pretty big judgment of my soul Parker. But that’s ok.
I would have no problem showing you the scriptures in context that support what I have written very clearly.
It was the Scriptures, the living words that helped me receive the revelation that I have received. What’s amazing about this is I am around many who have had the very same revelations. This includes the Apostles themselves. It was not hard for me to become Catholic because most of what I was taught about it through Apostolic Tradition and of course the Scriptures I had already thought about prior to becoming Catholic. After a years worth of studying the Scriptures, falling in love with Christ, I was baptized into Christ. After which all the dots of healing became to be seen more clearly. All the dots when connected form an image of Jesus. Let me know and I will get them . I really have a hard time believing you believe what you just wrote
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ParkerD
Guest
Catholic-Rcia,
I know you’re very sincere and that you’ve studied and feel strongly about your beliefs. But the Bible doesn’t specifically support many of those statements, particularly the exclusionary part. It’s not what the apostles taught, nor how they taught.
If you want to try and demonstrate the specific language (the wording phrases with the same kind of context) that matches yours from the Bible, then you can go ahead if you wish and when I get time, I’ll be interested in where you think you have seen those words.
Again, peace to you.
C
catholic-rcia
Guest
Take what I wrote and post it, then can you be more specific about what you consider precepts of men, please get right to the point. Then I will show you the Scriptures that support what I have written. But even though I will show you, you have to have the Holy Spirit in you to see these things clearly as I have been blessed to see them. It is not at all baout what I know, rather how it is passed on to others.
“Now in regard to spiritual gifts, brothers, I do not want you to be unaware. You know how, when you were pagans, you were constantly attracted and led away to mute idols.
Therefore, I tell you that nobody speaking by the spirit of God says, “Jesus be accursed.” And no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the holy Spirit. There are different kinds of spiritual gifts but the same Spirit; there are different forms of service but the same Lord; there are different workings but the same God who produces all of them in everyone”
God Bless
Rich
www.utahmission.com
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ParkerD
Guest
Catholic-Rcia,
I suppose that I owe you an answer to your request, so here you go using your earlier post that I had commented on:
not created like us than
The word “Christian” as used in the Bible deals with the kind of life the people lived who came into the fold of Christ and became His people. It does not deal with a creed. That is a precept of men.
That is a statement that uses language and context that are the precepts of men.
So, since you asked, there you go. Have a sweet and peaceful day.
I suppose that I owe you an answer to your request, so here you go using your earlier post that I had commented on:
There is no such “Christian creed” in the Bible, nor the use of the word “creed” to describe the beliefs and teachings, so this is a “precept of men.”
Not a quote from the Bible nor a statement consistent with Biblical teachings, so this is a “precept of men.”
He is, but that language is not from the Bible.
not created like us than
.
The word “Christian” as used in the Bible deals with the kind of life the people lived who came into the fold of Christ and became His people. It does not deal with a creed. That is a precept of men.
.
That is a statement that uses language and context that are the precepts of men.
Confession under that context is not described or taught in the Bible. That is a precept of men.
So, since you asked, there you go. Have a sweet and peaceful day.
C
catholic-rcia
Guest
**The Creed was not made from precepts of men. It was written to defend against heresy. It was what all Christians already believed. It is still e what all Christians believe Catholic or Protestants. They may not believe in Apostolic succession this is why they would use a Small c on Catholic where it is used. But we all believe in the same God, the Same Jesus and the Same Holy spirit. The creed was made to defend against others who would want to change these beliefs for their own power. Please look up the Scriptures I have placed throughout this Creed. I will post more tonight. It all fits so tightly together. It is what it is…TRUTH **
Will go over your own writings tonight one by one. Sons birthday today
God Bless
We Believe…
in one God, (Ex 20:2-3, Is 45:5, 1 Cor 8:4) the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, (Gen 14:19, Ex 20:2-3) of all that is seen and unseen. (Col 1:16)
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, (Luke 1:35) begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God. Begotten not made, one in Being with the Father. (Heb 1:3) Through Him all things were made. (John 1:2-3, Col 1:15-17))
For us men and for our salvation He came down from heaven: (John 3:13) by the power of the Holy Spirit He was born of the Virgin Mary, (Matt 1:18) and became man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; (John 19:16) he suffered, died, and was buried. On the third day he rose again in fulfillment of the Scriptures; (1Cor 15:3-4) he ascended into heaven (Luke 24:51) and is seated at the right hand of the Father. (Col 3:1) He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, (2 Tim 4:1) and his Kingdom will have no end. (Luke 1:33)
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, (Acts 2:17) who proceeds from the Father and the Son. (John 14:16) With the Father and the Son he is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets. (1 Peter 1:10-11)
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. (Rom 12:5) We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.(Acts 2:38) We look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the life of the world to come. (Rom 6:5) Amen
D
dianaiad
Guest
I’m sure that you will be very glad to learn that we don’t believe, or teach, that we will each 'be given our own planets to rule."
The way you couch your questions is interesting; formed as attacks, not simple requests for information. They are not “what do you believe about this and why,” but “why do you believe this when…???” The first is a request for understanding. The second forces the questionee into defense mode, simply by the form of the question.
We do not believe that there will be marriages (as in weddings performed" in heaven. They must be done here. We believe that marriages ‘sealed’ for eternity here will remain.
The problem is, nicky, you already DID argue about it, by the way you asked the question!!! Believe me, we’ve all 'been there, done that."
I understand that it ‘may not make sense’ to you. That does not, however, mean that it doesn’t make sense to us, or that the reasons we give are not the reasons we believe. You, as a Catholic, believe things that I don’t agree with, and the reasons for those beliefs seem to me to be invalid. That doesn’t mean that I dismiss them as lies.
C
catholic-rcia
Guest
Catholic-Rcia,
I suppose that I owe you an answer to your request, so here you go using your earlier post that I had commented on:
Quote Rich:
If you believe in the Christian Creed
Parker: There is no such “Christian creed” in the Bible, nor the use of the word “creed” to describe the beliefs and teachings, so this is a "precept of men."
Rich: To gather the Church together to proclaim in writing was is believed by the Church as a whole is not a precept of man. It is confirmation on what has been taught, what is believed, what has been believed from the beginning of the Church. it is guidence from the Advocate Jesus left His Church. Do you know the date of the Apostles Creed? Can you not see the scriptures clearly in this Creed? I find that hard to believe.
Quote Rich:
that there is One God above all things and that by Him all things hold together, one creator of all things weather in all the heavens and of all the earths and of all powers and principalities.
Parker: Not a quote from the Bible nor a statement consistent with Biblical teachings, so this is a "precept of men."
Col:1
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
He is the head of the body, the church. 9 He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he himself might be preeminent.
For in him all the fullness 10 was pleased to dwell,
and through him to reconcile all things for him, making peace by the blood of his cross 11 (through him), whether those on earth or those in heaven.
Quote Rich:
and that Jesus is the second person of the Godhead
Parker: He is, but that language is not from the Bible.
Rich: So explain to me what being the second person of the Trinity means to you. Is it the same as what Christians throughout the whole world believe? Have believed for 2 thousand years that Jesus is both our Lord and our God? That there is no other God besides Him? That He has no beginning and no end?
It is obvious is it not, we do not walk around quoting the Bible word for word when we speak. We know that Jesus has always been the eternal Son of God, and that through Him all things were created. (all things including the very hands you write with and the very mind you think with)
John 1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race”;
Take away His light and non of us would exist. But He would still remain; He would still be the light.
Quote Rich:
we would have no problem calling you Christian
.
Parker: The word “Christian” as used in the Bible deals with the kind of life the people lived who came into the fold of Christ and became His people. It does not deal with a creed. That is a precept of men.
Rich: Did not the Jews try to follow the law, a kind of holy life? Its more than just living a kind of life Parker. You have to know whos life you should be living. Yours or His?
It was these very people your speak of, these Christians who wrote the Creed so they were all clear on what they believed in order to fend off heresy.
I know these people Parker, 2000 years of them. They are all praying for you right now. They are all my family whether in heaven or on the earth. They all go to the same Mass I attend giving praise and Honor, worship to Christ our Lord.
Scroll all of these pages, these are whom you are speaking about. These are the Saints of the Church, those who came into the fold of Christ and became His people. And He said He would never abandon us, that He would not leave us orphaned, that He would be with us always.
catholiconline.com/saints/stindex.php
Continued
I suppose that I owe you an answer to your request, so here you go using your earlier post that I had commented on:
Quote Rich:
If you believe in the Christian Creed
Parker: There is no such “Christian creed” in the Bible, nor the use of the word “creed” to describe the beliefs and teachings, so this is a "precept of men."
Rich: To gather the Church together to proclaim in writing was is believed by the Church as a whole is not a precept of man. It is confirmation on what has been taught, what is believed, what has been believed from the beginning of the Church. it is guidence from the Advocate Jesus left His Church. Do you know the date of the Apostles Creed? Can you not see the scriptures clearly in this Creed? I find that hard to believe.
Quote Rich:
that there is One God above all things and that by Him all things hold together, one creator of all things weather in all the heavens and of all the earths and of all powers and principalities.
Parker: Not a quote from the Bible nor a statement consistent with Biblical teachings, so this is a "precept of men."
Col:1
He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
For in him were created all things in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things were created through him and for him.
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.
He is the head of the body, the church. 9 He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he himself might be preeminent.
For in him all the fullness 10 was pleased to dwell,
and through him to reconcile all things for him, making peace by the blood of his cross 11 (through him), whether those on earth or those in heaven.
Quote Rich:
and that Jesus is the second person of the Godhead
Parker: He is, but that language is not from the Bible.
Rich: So explain to me what being the second person of the Trinity means to you. Is it the same as what Christians throughout the whole world believe? Have believed for 2 thousand years that Jesus is both our Lord and our God? That there is no other God besides Him? That He has no beginning and no end?
It is obvious is it not, we do not walk around quoting the Bible word for word when we speak. We know that Jesus has always been the eternal Son of God, and that through Him all things were created. (all things including the very hands you write with and the very mind you think with)
John 1
“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be
through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race”;
Take away His light and non of us would exist. But He would still remain; He would still be the light.
Quote Rich:
we would have no problem calling you Christian
.
Parker: The word “Christian” as used in the Bible deals with the kind of life the people lived who came into the fold of Christ and became His people. It does not deal with a creed. That is a precept of men.
Rich: Did not the Jews try to follow the law, a kind of holy life? Its more than just living a kind of life Parker. You have to know whos life you should be living. Yours or His?
It was these very people your speak of, these Christians who wrote the Creed so they were all clear on what they believed in order to fend off heresy.
I know these people Parker, 2000 years of them. They are all praying for you right now. They are all my family whether in heaven or on the earth. They all go to the same Mass I attend giving praise and Honor, worship to Christ our Lord.
Scroll all of these pages, these are whom you are speaking about. These are the Saints of the Church, those who came into the fold of Christ and became His people. And He said He would never abandon us, that He would not leave us orphaned, that He would be with us always.
catholiconline.com/saints/stindex.php
Continued
C
catholic-rcia
Guest
You are speaking about the followers of Christ. All Protestants as well who believe in His divinity, that He is their source of life itself. . It was not a Good man who died for you so you can be risen in Him Parker…It was your Creator who lessoned Himself, took on flesh and died for you with all of your own sins in Him. The second person of the Godhead, the Son of God through whom you were created.
Quote Rich:
even more importantly offering it all up to Jesus and His Cross
Parker: That is a statement that uses language and context that are the precepts of men.
…the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
1 Corinthians 1:18
by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."
Colossians
“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
Colossians 2:14
Rich: I offer all up to Jesus upon the Cross where He died once for me. I give Him my joys and my struggles. But mostly I give Him my sins through personal and sacramental confession when needed because only He can take my sins away and make me whole. He is my doctor, I know I have a cancer that is my sinful nature. Would I be better off if I hid this fact? Should shame keep me from Him? Do I convince myself that I am good, that I have no need of the doctor? I am Catholic Parker. Precepts of men?
More here at my site
http://utahmission.com/pages/Cross_scripture.html
Quote Rich:
When it does not we go to Confession
Parker: Confession under that context is not described or taught in the Bible. That is a precept of men.
Johns Gospel
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
Rich: After being a Catholic for 12 years I could not imagine Christ’s Church without the Sacrament of Confession where we go to refresh our souls, to hear the words of absolution in order to continue the good fight while knowing how much we are loved in spite of our failings. Only Satan Himself would want me to believe otherwise as He hates the Sacrament of confession. Sorry to put it so bluntly Parker. The word Sanctification comes to mind when I think of confession. When I am speaking to the LDS here in Utah and I mention Confession they always say oh we have that to. I don’t correct them, I let it go. I have heard many stories about that type of confession. I have one myself but I will refrain. So that was just a little with the time I have. The scriptures are fully laced with such truths. The Catholic Church and the Holy Scriptures are one together. Apostolic Tradition is far different that traditions / precepts of men.
Quote Rich:
even more importantly offering it all up to Jesus and His Cross
Parker: That is a statement that uses language and context that are the precepts of men.
…the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God."
1 Corinthians 1:18
by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."
Colossians
“…having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.”
Colossians 2:14
Rich: I offer all up to Jesus upon the Cross where He died once for me. I give Him my joys and my struggles. But mostly I give Him my sins through personal and sacramental confession when needed because only He can take my sins away and make me whole. He is my doctor, I know I have a cancer that is my sinful nature. Would I be better off if I hid this fact? Should shame keep me from Him? Do I convince myself that I am good, that I have no need of the doctor? I am Catholic Parker. Precepts of men?
More here at my site
http://utahmission.com/pages/Cross_scripture.html
Quote Rich:
When it does not we go to Confession
Parker: Confession under that context is not described or taught in the Bible. That is a precept of men.
Johns Gospel
Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.”
Rich: After being a Catholic for 12 years I could not imagine Christ’s Church without the Sacrament of Confession where we go to refresh our souls, to hear the words of absolution in order to continue the good fight while knowing how much we are loved in spite of our failings. Only Satan Himself would want me to believe otherwise as He hates the Sacrament of confession. Sorry to put it so bluntly Parker. The word Sanctification comes to mind when I think of confession. When I am speaking to the LDS here in Utah and I mention Confession they always say oh we have that to. I don’t correct them, I let it go. I have heard many stories about that type of confession. I have one myself but I will refrain. So that was just a little with the time I have. The scriptures are fully laced with such truths. The Catholic Church and the Holy Scriptures are one together. Apostolic Tradition is far different that traditions / precepts of men.
P
ParkerD
Guest
Rich,
That passage is talking about the Son of God, mostly, but also about God the Father (described as “the invisible God” because we can’t see Him from the earth). The apostles of course had seen the Savior. Christ was indeed “the Firstborn of every creature”.
So the disconnect is that your statement said “One God above all things”, but the passage talks about the “invisible God” (God the Father) and the Son of God, through whom the Father created “all things”.
Agreed that there is no other Savior besides Christ, and that He is without beginning of days or end of years, and is Alpha and Omega. “Second person of the Trinity” are not words from the Bible.
Agreed.
P
ParkerD
Guest
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