Mormon-evangelical detente?

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zaffiroborant said:
I don’t believe for a second that the notion that Mormon have horns is firmly implanted in anyone’s mind let alone someone who is well educated. Stories like this are Mormon tall tales and if they do actually occur it’s because people are pulling one over on you. It’s a big joke on the interwebz.
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Agreed. I grew up in Texas (still live here) and never faced much “persecution”. No one ever thought I had horns. It was more of a Mormon joke than anything. The worst thing I ever faced was that the children who attended one particular Baptist church wouldn’t talk to me or any of the Catholics at school. The pastor of this church was very anti-Mormon and anti-Catholic. It was the exception rather than the rule.

I was actually treated worse by fellow Mormons while I attened BYU because I grew up in “Babylon”, went there for an education instead of a husband, and didn’t go on a mission. :eek:
 
LiberalPrincess said:
Yes, and most American Catholics agree (60%-31% according to a recent Quinnipiac Poll) with me that gays should be allowed to marry. :rolleyes:
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  1. That doesn’t make it right regardless of how many people support it.
  2. Where is that poll? I can’t find it.
ow only if evangelical Christians would have a detente with gays and their allies who are fighting for marriage equality and their civil rights.
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:rotfl:
  1. Marriage is not a Constitutional right
  2. Evangelical leaders won’t take their cues from Catholic progressives
  3. No matter how bad the activists want it, a gay relationship will never be equal to a straight one.
 
“American Catholics support same-sex marriage 60 - 31 percent, compared to the 56 - 36 percent support among all U.S. adults.”
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The sample was for registered, not likely voters.

However, it does capture an unfortunate trend in our culture today, even if more liberal Catholics were over-sampled.
Regardless of what the Vatican officially says, gay marriage right under the Constitution of the United States. You cannot have church policies dictate state policies.
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Marriage is not a Constitutional right.

We can have polices that are in the interest of the state.

So-called “gay marriage” is not in the interest of the state.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I don’t believe for a second that the notion that Mormon have horns is firmly implanted in anyone’s mind let alone someone who is well educated.
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Hey, I was surprised as anyone. It did happen over fifteen years ago, so hopefully there’s nobody left on earth who still believes it. But yes indeed, it was a real encounter that really happened really.
Stories like this are Mormon tall tales, and if they do actually occur it’s because people are pulling one over on you. It’s a big joke on the interwebz.
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I’d largely agree. There are often lighthearted jokes about mormons and horns. NonLDS folks have jokingly asked me about my horns, who of course didn’t believe it to be true. Mormons joke about it among ourselves, and with others.

But yes indeed - this guy honestly did believe we had them. If I’m remembering the story correctly, he had been told that mormon pioneer inbreeding had led to a congenital bone defect which manifested as bony protrusions on the cranium. He’d also heard that it was usually corrected surgically these days. One of the things he was asking my wife, was if she had the surgery at birth, or if they needed to wait until later in childhood after the skull bones stabilized.
Some people react that way when they’re bracing to be heavily proselytized.
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Indeed. And upon hearing the word ‘mormon’, she braced herself for an onslaught, despite having known us for over a year and never receiving that sort of treatment. Again, if we were really that hard-sell, you’d think we wouldn’t have taken over a year to start pressuring her. :rolleyes: BeProfOSX’s experience matches the way my wife and I try to live.
Again no one thinks you have horns, period.
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Again, I’m grateful for the current atmosphere of openness being discussed in the OP, because such endeavors will pretty much wipe out such silliness, if there’s any left.
 
iepuras said:
I was actually treated worse by fellow Mormons while I attened BYU because I grew up in “Babylon”, went there for an education instead of a husband, and didn’t go on a mission. :eek:
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Heh - this I can totally understand. BYU student culture stinks big time.

(So says NeuroTypical, proud graduate of the University of Utah)
 
NeuroTypical said:
Heh - this I can totally understand. BYU student culture stinks big time.

(So says NeuroTypical, proud graduate of the University of Utah)
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It does. I hated it. All my Mormon friends don’t understand why I didn’t like BYU when they had the time of their lives there. Well, they dated a lot and found their spouses there. They fit into the culture. Why wouldn’t they like it?

I applied to BYU to keep my parents off my back and I got a 100% tuition scholarship. The University of Texas didn’t give me any scholarship money, so I went to BYU. I got a good education and the professors in my academic program were great. They were very encouraging of women in the program. The older I got, the worse the social scene was for me. I had my small circle of friends so I did just fine. I could have done without all the stupidity that is BYU culture.
 
zaffiroborant said:
Again no one thinks you have horns, period.
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LOL. When I went through boot camp in Ft. Jackson and some of the guys in my company heard I was from Utah they asked " So do Mormons really have horns?" I had to laugh. I wonder where that comes from? It is quite funny.
 
You cannot have church policies dictate government policies.
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Really? Could you explain what George Washington meant when he said:

“Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens…Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.”
(Bolding mine).
Now, maybe I’m missing something here, but he seems to be saying that not only are religion and morality important for the nation, but that those who try to get rid of their influence cannot be true patriots.
 
iepuras said:
It does. I hated it. All my Mormon friends don’t understand why I didn’t like BYU when they had the time of their lives there. Well, they dated a lot and found their spouses there. They fit into the culture. Why wouldn’t they like it?

I applied to BYU to keep my parents off my back and I got a 100% tuition scholarship. The University of Texas didn’t give me any scholarship money, so I went to BYU. I got a good education and the professors in my academic program were great. They were very encouraging of women in the program. The older I got, the worse the social scene was for me. I had my small circle of friends so I did just fine. I could have done without all the stupidity that is BYU culture.
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I despised BYU and the Utah culture. The most revealing experience for me was my last two years there when I was granted a beard waiver (yes, you can get one). Having to shave every day wreaked havoc on my skin, so I was medically cleared to have facial hair at school. The thing is, BYU doesn’t allow men to maintain a groomed beard, so I had to let it grow wild and it didn’t take long for me to look like a homeless caveman. Almost every day I walked on campus I was the recipient of condescending and judgmental remarks from students and faculty walking by. I heard that I was following satan, unworthy, weak, lazy, apostate, or anti-Christ. It was eye opening in that I finally realized how judgmental the general membership was. The collapse of my testimony began long ago through this experience living in Utah and learning that the church is more culture than it is religion.
 
taylorf said:
I despised BYU and the Utah culture. The most revealing experience for me was my last two years there when I was granted a beard waiver (yes, you can get one). Having to shave every day wreaked havoc on my skin, so I was medically cleared to have facial hair at school. The thing is, BYU doesn’t allow men to maintain a groomed beard, so I had to let it grow wild and it didn’t take long for me to look like a homeless caveman. Almost every day I walked on campus I was the recipient of condescending and judgmental remarks from students and faculty walking by. I heard that I was following satan, unworthy, weak, lazy, apostate, or anti-Christ. It was eye opening in that I finally realized how judgmental the general membership was. The collapse of my testimony began long ago through this experience living in Utah and learning that the church is more culture than it is religion.
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That’s awful. Like you, my BYU experience definitely helped me to eventually leave. My husband has a beard. When we visited Utah, I considered taking him to BYU but decided against it. We would have gotten stares because of my husband’s well-groomed (and attractive :D) beard. Plus, on our trip this past summer, we were out of the LDS church and I was wearing a crucifix. The horror! :eek: I don’t think those poor BYU students would have been able to handle it!
 
The Constitution doesn’t define marriage either. Nor does it contain a right to “gay” marriage. And if the courts that gave us Dread Scott or Plessy say it does, well that is simply opinion, and opinion can change.
 
taylorf said:
I was granted a beard waiver (yes, you can get one).
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Taylorf, you’re my new hero. My whole time at the U, I was trying to think of ways to get beards on the Y campus. I seriously considered doing graduate studies at BYU, because I figured I could get a beard waiver also. I’ve always liked being a thorn in unrighteously judgmental people’s sides.
It was eye opening in that I finally realized how judgmental the general membership was. The collapse of my testimony began long ago through this experience living in Utah and learning that the church is more culture than it is religion.
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I can relate to a certain extent. I was glad to get out of Utah, and be around Mormons who hadn’t been brought up in mormon culture. I prefer being a minority religiously, and a majority politically. Here in Colorado, I buddied up with a lapsed Catholic, and we traded “you wont believe what my grandma taught me” stories. (I’ve done enough research on my own to know that her grandma had some rather incorrect views of what Catholicism had to teach.)

But college campuses are hardly where you discover things about “general membership” of the dominant demographics sending their kids to college.

My experience at the UofU was full of drunken fools at environmental sensitivity rallies, trying to hit on girls by talking about how “concerned with the environment” they were, while standing in piles of trash. If you were religious at all, you were mocked and scorned for being backwards denizens of a bygone age where we burned witches and used leeches to suck demons out of people.

I’ve gathered enough stories from college campuses outside of Utah to know ignorant zeal, unbridled hormones, foolish idealism, and self-righteous evil are what you get from a lot of college students in general - it’s hardly a Mormon-only phenomenon.
 
NeuroTypical said:
Taylorf, you’re my new hero. My whole time at the U, I was trying to think of ways to get beards on the Y campus. I seriously considered doing graduate studies at BYU, because I figured I could get a beard waiver also. I’ve always liked being a thorn in unrighteously judgmental people’s sides.

I can relate to a certain extent. I was glad to get out of Utah, and be around Mormons who hadn’t been brought up in mormon culture. I prefer being a minority religiously, and a majority politically. Here in Colorado, I buddied up with a lapsed Catholic, and we traded “you wont believe what my grandma taught me” stories. (I’ve done enough research on my own to know that her grandma had some rather incorrect views of what Catholicism had to teach.)

But college campuses are hardly where you discover things about “general membership” of the dominant demographics sending their kids to college.

My experience at the UofU was full of drunken fools at environmental sensitivity rallies, trying to hit on girls by talking about how “concerned with the environment” they were, while standing in piles of trash. If you were religious at all, you were mocked and scorned for being backwards denizens of a bygone age where we burned witches and used leeches to suck demons out of people.

I’ve gathered enough stories from college campuses outside of Utah to know ignorant zeal, unbridled hormones, foolish idealism, and self-righteous evil are what you get from a lot of college students in general - it’s hardly a Mormon-only phenomenon.
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may not be a “Mormon-Only” phenomenon, but other Universities do not spout the “We are Mormons and do not drink, smoke, etc etc etc.”
 
NeuroTypical said:
My whole time at the U, I was trying to think of ways to get beards on the Y campus.
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You can always invite the Robertsons of Duck Dynasty fame to BYU. Maybe Willie can speak to the Marriott School of Management or something. I would pay money to see Uncle Si walking around BYU campus with his pitcher of tea. :rotfl:
 
I hope nobody finds it odd that mormons can giggle at BYU almost as much as anyone else. I’ve heard enough “Nuns with rulers” jokes from Catholics to think I might be on safe ground.

Here’s a 2004 article about a guy at BYU with a beard: Bearded man a BYU oddity

And a more recent article about a guy selling beard T-shirts to students.

I just did a Facebook search and learned there’s a Beards for BYU facebook page.

😃
 
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