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JHow
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Why the animus towards facial hair? I always thought beards were a sign of wisdom and holiness. The prophets had beards.
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iepuras
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Mormons really eschewed the beard after WW2. My understanding is that the facial hair rules at BYU were put in place as a reaction to the sexual revolution and hippies in the 60’s. My parents attended BYU in the 70’s and were not even allowed to wear jeans. In fact, my mother was not allowed to wear pants. Women had to wear skirts or dresses. Ugh. There are urban legends of pants-clad women who were denied services on campus so they used their coats or jackets as makeshift skirts. Not sure if that ever happened but given the treatment of men with a 5 o’clock shadow at BYU, I would not be surprised if some of the stories are true.
After WW2, especially after David O. McKay became Mormon prophet, the LDS church became much more image conscious and really embraced the “corporate look” for men. There are stake presidents and bishops who think that all men should be clean shaven and enforce it in the respective jurisdictions, but today, there are not as many that are this hard core. I have never seen a stake president or a bishop with facial hair. My husband’s last calling was in the Young Men’s program. I was really afraid the bishop was going to ask him to shave. Fortunately, he never asked my husband to shave, but he did ask him to wear a tie. In LDS congregations, you will find a handful of men with facial hair, but in my experience, these men never have meaningful leadership positions.
I don’t understand the animus towards facial hair or even “long” hair on men. Even all the pictures of Jesus show Him with longer hair and a beard! Beards are a sign of manhood (in addition to wisdom and holiness). As soon as my husband was able to grow a beard, he grew one and has never looked back. He is under strict orders to never shave. I love his beard. The kids love it.
As an ex Mormon, I would say that the Mormon culture against facial hair, especially BYU’s strict rules, are a form of control.
After WW2, especially after David O. McKay became Mormon prophet, the LDS church became much more image conscious and really embraced the “corporate look” for men. There are stake presidents and bishops who think that all men should be clean shaven and enforce it in the respective jurisdictions, but today, there are not as many that are this hard core. I have never seen a stake president or a bishop with facial hair. My husband’s last calling was in the Young Men’s program. I was really afraid the bishop was going to ask him to shave. Fortunately, he never asked my husband to shave, but he did ask him to wear a tie. In LDS congregations, you will find a handful of men with facial hair, but in my experience, these men never have meaningful leadership positions.
I don’t understand the animus towards facial hair or even “long” hair on men. Even all the pictures of Jesus show Him with longer hair and a beard! Beards are a sign of manhood (in addition to wisdom and holiness). As soon as my husband was able to grow a beard, he grew one and has never looked back. He is under strict orders to never shave. I love his beard. The kids love it.
As an ex Mormon, I would say that the Mormon culture against facial hair, especially BYU’s strict rules, are a form of control.
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NeuroTypical
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Sorry iepuras, I had to giggle at this comment a little. Well of course culture and policies against facial hair is a form of control! It’s hardly like LDS kids are the only kids to suffer endless woe at the hands of administrators, parents, and policies requiring one to conform. That’s what kids do - they groan under the oppressive weight of chains of control imposed by authoritarians in their lives. (Also true of liberals of any age).
As I google around for catholic school dress code horror stories, there are plenty to be found. One thing I noticed, was that most of them seem to be told by bitter ex-Catholics, whereas about half of the LDS dress code stories come from faithful practicing LDS. I don’t know why - any guesses?
Full disclosure - I’ve had a goatee since at least 1996. In that time, I lived in Utah 4-5 years, got my temple recommend, have held numerous callings in numerous wards, including serving in a bishopric. I’ve attended a senior leadership training session hosted by an apostle while wearing a goatee, and nobody gave me as much as a weird look. I currently attend a ward lightheartedly known as “the most bearded in the stake”. In all my years with this thing on my face, I’ve gathered only a single experience of a Mormon taking issue with it. It was in the Hotel Utah, helping an RM buddy move in his old mission president. Said ex-mission president was vocally not impressed with my goatee. shrug
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BeProfOSX
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It’s exactly the same thing for the same reasons at Bob Jones and other like-minded Fundamentalist institutions.Mormons really eschewed the beard after WW2. My understanding is that the facial hair rules at BYU were put in place as a reaction to the sexual revolution and hippies in the 60’s. My parents attended BYU in the 70’s and were not even allowed to wear jeans. In fact, my mother was not allowed to wear pants. Women had to wear skirts or dresses. Ugh. There are urban legends of pants-clad women who were denied services on campus so they used their coats or jackets as makeshift skirts. Not sure if that ever happened but given the treatment of men with a 5 o’clock shadow at BYU, I would not be surprised if some of the stories are true.
After WW2, especially after David O. McKay became Mormon prophet, the LDS church became much more image conscious and really embraced the “corporate look” for men. There are stake presidents and bishops who think that all men should be clean shaven and enforce it in the respective jurisdictions, but today, there are not as many that are this hard core. I have never seen a stake president or a bishop with facial hair. My husband’s last calling was in the Young Men’s program. I was really afraid the bishop was going to ask him to shave. Fortunately, he never asked my husband to shave, but he did ask him to wear a tie. In LDS congregations, you will find a handful of men with facial hair, but in my experience, these men never have meaningful leadership positions.
I don’t understand the animus towards facial hair or even “long” hair on men. Even all the pictures of Jesus show Him with longer hair and a beard! Beards are a sign of manhood (in addition to wisdom and holiness). As soon as my husband was able to grow a beard, he grew one and has never looked back. He is under strict orders to never shave. I love his beard. The kids love it.
As an ex Mormon, I would say that the Mormon culture against facial hair, especially BYU’s strict rules, are a form of control.
Personally, I would like nothing more than to be able to rock an epic Presbyterian beard, but alas, genetics have conspired against me.
I mean… seriously… have you seen the cuttings of John Knox? Gandalf wished he had that beard.
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iepuras
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Well, I could draft a long list of how the LDS controls its members in not so benign ways, which I won’t go into here. The culture against facial hair is certainly not the worst way the LDS church controls its members. In any society or group, there are rules and there is a certain level of authority. Authority is not bad in an of itself. The problem is when the authority asserts its itself simply to exercise control and for no other valid purposes. It is one thing to have laws against stealing and murder or for parents to punish their children if they are fighting or hurting each other. It is another to exercise authority just because. It would be wrong for me to force my son to play with his cars when he really wants to read a book simply because I am his parent and authority figure.
The facial hair culture in the LDS church is improving. It has improved significantly in the last 20 years. Certain places are better than others. The bad stories I have heard about stake presidents visiting a ward and demanding a ward member to shave are older. I would not expect a current stake president to do something like that today, although I would not be surprised if a stake president asked a man to shave in order to be called as a bishop. I am not surprised that facial hair attitudes are different in out in the middle of nowhere Colorado than suburban Houston. I will give the men in our former ward some credit. Most of them were envious of my husband’s beard. Deep down inside, they wanted one. After a Boy Scout excursion trip, the men came back with facial hair and one of them continued to grow his beard out for a while. He really liked it and wanted to keep growing it out. I encouraged his wife to let him grow it out. I told her that it wouldn’t be long before his beard got nice and soft. A week later he was clean shaven.
Catholic school dress code horror stories? We looked at enrolling our son in Catholic school and the dress code was the least of our concerns. The uniform policy is not as flexible as at the public school but no biggie. My boys are still little so they would rather run around naked than be clothed. If they are ex Catholics, it is likely they have much bigger issues and are just criticizing every little thing possible.
I used to be one of those faithful LDS sisters who complained about modesty attitudes. Pants at church for women are a cultural no-no but certainly not officially banned. I did wear pants to church on the designated day last year and continued to do so until I left. There were some vocal women in the ward condemning the wearing of pants, but they are stay at home moms who probably don’t have a whole lot of professional pantsuits in their closets. I work at a bank so I have plenty of professional and reverent pantsuits to wear to church. Church was the only reason I kept skirts in my closet. I always wondered, why is a denim skirt with flip flops more appropriate at church than a pantsuit with pumps?
I think there are modesty extremes in certain LDS circles which is why faithful LDS will rightfully complain. My sister in law will put a white shirt underneath a sleeveless sundress on her baby (barely one year old). White shirts underneath camisoles and tank tops are a Utah fashion trend that needs to stop. There are LDS who think that girls need to wear swimsuits that would cover garments they are not old enough to wear yet. There are also inconsistencies in the modesty standards (official and cultural). The LDS culture can’t seem to handle seeing women’s shoulders yet a woman can wear skin tight clothing that covers the garments (Iknow because I can see the outline of the lace and the marks). There are inconsistencies in the standards and cultural expectations so it appears to be arbitrary and excessive. That is why faithful LDS women complain. Oh, I will also add that a lot of the excessiveness seems to come from other LDS women seeking to impose their beliefs onto others.
Oh, and maybe that ex mission president would have rather moved himself? So much for graciously accepting charity.
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RebeccaJ
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It was American culture. My oldest sister was not allowed to wear pants to elementary or jr. high. Skirts or dresses were required to be long enough that with your arms relaxed to the side, the hem of your skirt/dress would not be shorted than your fingertips. Girls were sent home if they wore pants or if their skirt/dress was too short. Social mores changed, and I was allowed to wear pants to the very same elementary school. Prior to the 50’s, women wore dresses or skirts. Period. Pants were something to be worn for sporting activities, never for every day dress.
I know of one man who grows a beard and mustache every now and then, just to keep from being called to “meaningful leadership” positions. Which, is also a funny Mormon kind of thing…this hierarchy of callings, and determining who is the most righteous in all the land by their calling.
I don’t understand the animus towards facial hair or even “long” hair on men. Even all the pictures of Jesus show Him with longer hair and a beard! Beards are a sign of manhood (in addition to wisdom and holiness). As soon as my husband was able to grow a beard, he grew one and has never looked back. He is under strict orders to never shave. I love his beard. The kids love it.
It’s keeping an image. Clean cut, all American, ala circa 1950. Will never work in areas of the world where a man without a beard is viewed as inferior.
The one that kills me is the injunction against more than one ear piercing per ear for girls/women. That is what Prophet Of God is for, to determine the uniform look of everyone.
BTW, Brigham Young declared that button-fly pants were of the devil.
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taylorf
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I get what college campuses are about, but I didn’t say college campuses (in general) are a good way to judge general membership. I said that BYU specifically is, I believe, a fair representation of how LDS perceive and interact with each other.
During my “exit interview” with the Bishop back in August, my BYU/Utah experience came up, and he quickly tried to dismiss it away as cultural phenomenon that is unique to Utah. I said nothing, but I firmly believe that the Utah Mormon culture/religion is, in fact, the true manifestation of how Mormon members interact with each other. If the church in the DC/Metro area here were to grow and become as predominant as say, Utah County, it wouldn’t take long for the church here to become just as judgmental, hypocritical, and unbearable as it is in Utah. I can’t prove it but I know it’s true.
And…despite the ‘persecution’ I faced having a beard, I admit I relished every second of it. I wore it proudly.
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JHow
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A proscription against more than one ear ring does seem odd given that ears typically come in pairs. Did I read that wrong?
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RebeccaJ
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The whole “Utah Mormon” thing doesn’t work for people who live in Utah.Seriously, Mormons outside of Utah are telling Mormons who live in Utah “you’re doing it wrong, we’re better than you.”? Just more judgement, Mormon to Mormon.
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RebeccaJ
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Yeah, I said one per ear.
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iepuras
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Did you have a burning in the bosom to tell you it is true?
I agree with you that BYU and Utah culture are a fair representation of how LDS perceive and interact with each other. If you look at places outside Utah where there is a critical mass of LDS, a Utah-like Mormon subculture develops. See Mormon-heavy areas in Idaho and Arizona. There is a reason why Mesa is referred to as “little Provo”.
You can even see Mormon subcultures develop in YSA wards and YM/YW groups in wards where everyone is friends with other LDS and they don’t really interact much socially with non-LDS. I didn’t get caught up in an LDS sub-culture in my ward in high school because there simply weren’t enough LDS in my high school nor were there enough youth in my ward in my age bracket for an LDS sub-culture to really develop. As the area where I grew up grew and more LDS moved to the area, an LDS sub-culture developed in my parents’ ward. My younger siblings got caught up in it. They had hardly any non-LDS friends. I was the opposite. I had hardly any LDS friends.
When I moved to Houston, I got involved in the YSA ward and ended up in the LDS sub-culture. I had hardly any non-LDS friends and grew increasingly frustrated because I did not fit in the LDS culture. I was not the model of the ideal LDS woman, and was thereby rejected as a potential life partner by LDS men. Interestingly, the culture of the YSA ward I attended became very similar to the culture at BYU, and not everyone in the ward had even attended BYU or lived for a significant time in Utah.
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NeuroTypical
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Yep - I heard you say it. And I stand by my confusion over why anyone would think such a thing.
- What you see on college campuses are not good ways to judge general membership.
- Except for BYU, which is a good way, for some reason.
Anyway, I am LDS, and I know a gazillion other LDS, and I’m stating quite clearly that my life and the lives of most other LDS I know, hold many stark contrasts to campus life at BYU.
And again, you’re still my hero for bringing bearded bliss onto the BYU campus and pushing a few zoobies up against their comfort zones.
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taylorf
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Good point, Mormon on Mormon crime exists on both sides. Utah Mormons looking down on those outside, and non-Utah Mormons looking down on Utahns. I used to fall into the latter. Now, it’s all the same to me - Mormonism is just false no matter what side you belong to.
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taylorf
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With every fiber in my beingDid you have a burning in the bosom to tell you it is true?
YES!!!
I knew someone would understand.
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taylorf
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Well, I don’t know a gazillion LDS members, so maybe you’re right and I’m wrong. And although my argument makes sense in my head, it just may be that my explanation is garbage (not the logic, of courseYep - I heard you say it. And I stand by my confusion over why anyone would think such a thing.
- What you see on college campuses are not good ways to judge general membership.
- Except for BYU, which is a good way, for some reason.
Anyway, I am LDS, and I know a gazillion other LDS, and I’m stating quite clearly that my life and the lives of most other LDS I know, hold many stark contrasts to campus life at BYU.
)What I mean to say is Utah Mormonism is the true manifestation of the LDS religion that is judgmental, prideful, elitist, and hypocritical. Members outside Utah want to label it “Utah” Mormonism, but it’s what would happen anywhere if you had a high concentration of members. Utah County is 80% LDS, BYU is 99%, and BYU-Idaho is probably similar. Each one of those environments is ridiculously unbearable and demonstrates the characteristics I previously mentioned.
So…build a city and populate it with 500,000 randomly selected members from across the world, and then observe the development of the culture. Repeat the random selection and observation an infinite amount of times, and you’ll see that “Utah Mormonism” is the result 100% of the time.
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debbie_h
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I don’t know about other stakes & countries, but they hand out ‘stake calendars’ to all those who have callings. A several years back when I was still living at home with my parents, I was looking through my dad’s calendar & I specifically remember seeing a dress code list for all members, including all men must be clean shaven & women must wear dresses & skirts for all Sunday activities. Funny though, looking through my dad’s current stake calendar the other day, this list is no longer in there…
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