Mormon FAQ!

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Zerinus writes in his new blog:

““Joseph Smith didn’t start Mormonism from the premise of the Apostasy. He didn’t say, “Christianity is apostate; therefore let’s start a new religion”. That may be the Protestant position, but it is not the LDS position. Joseph Smith was just 14 years old when he had his First Vision; and he didn’t go to the woods in order to start a new religion. He went there to inquire of the Lord to know which church was right, so that he could know which one to join.””

According to Richard Bushman in Joseph Smith, Rough Stone Rolling, there was considerable religious ferment both within the Smith family during Jr’s formative years, as well as in the community of Palmyra. Jr had “Methodist leanings” and for awhile was a participant in a probationary class of the Palmyra Methodist Church. Meantime, Lucy, Jr’s mother, joined the Western Presbyterian Church, where she attended services with Hyrum, Sophronia and Samuel. Sr was more apathetic, and probably feeling himself a failure due to financial misfortunes resulting both from events outside, as well as inside his own control. He stayed home from church, and Jr, Alvin, and William stayed home with him.

It is clear from Bushman’s account that the Smith family, like the Palmyra community, was religiously divided during an era of competition between protestant sects.

When one takes a closer look at the family circumstances of the Smiths, it becomes more clear that on the morning when Jr walked into the woods to pray, he had in fact been pondering the question of the so-called apostasy (even if he hadn’t yet arrived at that term for it). It is a lot more likely that the “visions” served more to confirm in the boy-mind conclusions he’d already reached at his tender age.

Then, seeing the manner in which the tale of the visions were unfolded beginning in 1832, twelve years later, is a strong indication that the entire vision story was a fabrication meant to reinforce Jr as a prophet, seer, revelator before his followers, who prior to 1832 had never heard of the First Vision.
 
Here is a FAQ that I see around here: If having a body is required to be deified, just as LDS say the Father has, why doesnt the Holy Spirit have a body?
Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith taught that the Holy Spirit was in a probationary period and that if he was ‘faithful to his calling’ he would progress and inherit a body of flesh and bone like the father and the son. (I’m currently on the road and will look up this exact source and get it to you if your interested - I believe it was in the Times and Seasons 1842).

Even more problematic is the fact that the Mormon version of Jesus attained godhood in the pre-mortal existence. If, as is clearly taught in the LDS missionary discussions, part of the ‘plan’ for us was to come to earth to progress w/ bodies of flesh & bone, how is it that the Mormon Jesus was able to side-step this whole ordeal?
 
Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith taught that the Holy Spirit was in a probationary period and that if he was ‘faithful to his calling’ he would progress and inherit a body of flesh and bone like the father and the son. (I’m currently on the road and will look up this exact source and get it to you if your interested - I believe it was in the Times and Seasons 1842

Even more problematic is the fact that the Mormon version of Jesus attained godhood in the pre-mortal existence. If, as is clearly taught in the LDS missionary discussions, part of the ‘plan’ for us was to come to earth to progress w/ bodies of flesh & bone, how is it that the Mormon Jesus was able to side-step this whole ordeal?

Just to answer your previous question, the above in bold is an example of “flapdoodle.”

American Heritage Dictionary: Flapdoodle
NOUN: Slang Foolish talk; nonsense:
 
You looked that up in the wrong Bible. You need to look it up in the monkey Bible to find that!

zerinus 😃
Actually, it is a direct quote from the Book of Mormon where it says “then it came to pass that my faithful servant Zerinus is full of flapdoodle.”
 
Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith taught that the Holy Spirit was in a probationary period and that if he was ‘faithful to his calling’ he would progress and inherit a body of flesh and bone like the father and the son. (I’m currently on the road and will look up this exact source and get it to you if your interested - I believe it was in the Times and Seasons 1842).

Even more problematic is the fact that the Mormon version of Jesus attained godhood in the pre-mortal existence. If, as is clearly taught in the LDS missionary discussions, part of the ‘plan’ for us was to come to earth to progress w/ bodies of flesh & bone, how is it that the Mormon Jesus was able to side-step this whole ordeal?
I would be very interested in the exact source and quote, especially if it is available online.
 
Interestingly enough, Joseph Smith taught that the Holy Spirit was in a probationary period and that if he was ‘faithful to his calling’ he would progress and inherit a body of flesh and bone like the father and the son.
Yes, I do recall reading a statement like that from him somewhere, although I cannot recall the exact source right now.
Even more problematic is the fact that the Mormon version of Jesus attained godhood in the pre-mortal existence.
Where does it say in LDS scripture that God cannot bestow divinity on a pre-mortal spirit before it has passed through the various stages of mortality, death, and resurrection?
If, as is clearly taught in the LDS missionary discussions, part of the ‘plan’ for us was to come to earth to progress w/ bodies of flesh & bone, how is it that the Mormon Jesus was able to side-step this whole ordeal?
He didn’t sidestep the ordeal. He had to go through the same ordeal; and for Him the ordeal was far greater than it was for anyone else. “To him that much is given, of him much is required”. His endowment of divinity in the pre-existence was necessary for Him to be able to accomplish the greater mission He needed to perform here on earth.

zerinus
 
Where does it say in LDS scripture that God cannot bestow divinity on a pre-mortal spirit before it has passed through the various stages of mortality, death, and resurrection? zerinus
When you say “God” are you referring to Heavenly Father? I assume you are.

Heavenly Father is supposed to have been a man of flesh and bone, and progressed to achieve godhood. Does he still exist as a man of flesh and bone, hair and teeth? Or is he now completely a spirit being?

Does all of this happen, this eternal progression, according to some impersonal universal imperative? Or is there a chief god somewhere else who provides the authority to the lesser gods, such as Heavenly Father, to “bestow divinity” on a pre-mortal spirit?

I reckon where I’m getting confused is in the consideration of Heavenly Father as not being the most powerful god in the neighborhood. If he was once a man, it must follow that there are more powerful gods out there than he is.
 
When you say “God” are you referring to Heavenly Father? I assume you are.

Heavenly Father is supposed to have been a man of flesh and bone, and progressed to achieve godhood. Does he still exist as a man of flesh and bone, hair and teeth? Or is he now completely a spirit being?

Does all of this happen, this eternal progression, according to some impersonal universal imperative? Or is there a chief god somewhere else who provides the authority to the lesser gods, such as Heavenly Father, to “bestow divinity” on a pre-mortal spirit?

I reckon where I’m getting confused is in the consideration of Heavenly Father as not being the most powerful god in the neighborhood. If he was once a man, it must follow that there are more powerful gods out there than he is.
This is a good question, either the “eternal progression” is required or it isnt.
 
Okay you guys, I have become absolutely sick to death of having to answer the same questions millions and millions of times! So I have created a “Mormon FAQ” Blog to post my answers to the most FAQs, to save me the trouble of having to answer them millions and millions of times! Click on my signature below to go to the site. I will add more material to it as time and occasion permits. Enjoy!

zerinus
That is weird! After I had posted my blog called The “Fountational Premise” of Mormonism, I just clicked on the four clips, and none of them worked! It seems that somebody here must have warned the guy about my blog, and he had reposted it or changed the URL! What is the matter? If what you are saying is true, why are you so afraid of people to respond to it? Well, tell him that if he changes it again a hundred times, I will fix it a hundred times to get the clips. Go back to my blog and you will see that it has now been fixed. 😃

zerinus
 
They work fine for me. Maybe the site went down momentarily. It happens. Why are you so paranoid?
 
They work fine for me. Maybe the site went down momentarily. It happens. Why are you so paranoid?
Was it you who told him to re-upload the files to change the URL? I wouldn’t be surprised! That is the kind of think you might do. Well, tell him I have bad nooos for him. I have saved the files! 😃 If he deletes them or changes them again, I will upload them there myself, with the original heading. Stop me if you can! 😛

zerinus :mad:
 
Was it you who told him to re-upload the files to change the URL? I wouldn’t be surprised! That is the kind of think you might do. Well, tell him I have bad nooos for him. I have saved the files! 😃 If he deletes them or changes them again, I will upload them there myself, with the original heading. Stop me if you can! 😛

zerinus :mad:
Honestly, Zerinus, I think you’re going off the deep end.

Ask yourself WHY anyone would be interested in doing such a thing? I’ve watched the first clip, and can see from doing so that your critique of it is half-baked and, like your Scriptural exegesis, is plain wrong.

I don’t know who “he” is, and even if I did, I wouldn’t favor anything that obstructed your process. People here are smart enough to make up their own minds about Mormonism based on what they read from Mormons themselves. One of your own Mormon compatriots recently commented here that you (Zerinus) are your own worst enemy. I do agree, but am sad to see a fellow religious nutcase, LOL, go into meltdown. Maybe it is time for another vacation?
 
And now the theme from “outer limits” is playing in the background!! 😃
 
Not at all, brother! You’re the best Christian apologist here. Please don’t go.
I have just added a very long new post to my blog about deification and plurality of gods. See how you like it! 😛

Other posts in the pipeline are about DNA and archaeological evidence—when I get the time! 😃

zerinus
 
I have just added a very long new post to my blog about deification and plurality of gods. See how you like it! 😛

Other posts in the pipeline are about DNA and archaeological evidence—when I get the time! 😃

zerinus
You get full marks for enthusiasm Zerinus, but in spite of all your efforts, I doubt that you will convince anyone but the very gullible or the very ignorant that mormonism is at best a bogus religion or at worst a very large cult. Your own “church” has spent millions trying to prove even a tiny part of the BOM and have failed miserably. But, I guess everyone has to have a hobby.
 
Oh, this I gotta see! :rolleyes:
This could be interesting, I hear that Zerinus may have found himself a peep stone. Or maybe a solid-state Urrim and Thummim. That’s about the only way that he is going to turn up anything new.:cool:
 
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