Mormon/LDS and Divorce

[ParkerD]

Stormy,
If you choose to believe wrong information, then that’s your choice.

You have no sealing regarding your marriage unless both of the couple are true and faithful to all their covenants. So you both, in effect, “canceled” your own sealing–no one else needs to do that, you already did it.

 

[dianaiad]

I cannot get the sealing canceled unless he agrees…point blank…while I’m alive it’s a moot point, I am Catholic…when I die it will also for me be a non factor, I am Catholic, I live by the teachings of the RC so I know where I will then…

It’s absolutely insane that they can baptize you after you are dead and you can’t say no…and seal you to people when you can’t say no…but that’s the work done in the Temple when it’s not used for marrying people. Talking about that along with sealing…it makes no sense to me but perhaps someone can explain it.

But it seems if he can get our marriage sealing canceled then so should I be able to with no problems…but that isn’t the case.

In no way do run down the Mormon religion…if it works for them fine…it just doesn’t work when you don’t get the information you need before you convert…

My RCIA gave me ALL the info on the Catholic Church, the good, the bad, and the ugly…and any question was answered immediately…the way it should be so you truly know if this is the way you want to be with God…

Even my own Mormon husband didn’t tell me what he should of…

This is one reason other religions look at Mormons with a quizzical eye.

stormy

You are not sealed to the man. The only person he is shackling, if that’s the word you want to use here, is himself.

Nothing he does, either here in life or afterwards, will ‘bind’ you in any way without your willing permission.

Unlike Catholics, who baptise infants without asking them…and declare that baptism leaves an indelible mark upon their souls, anything done by the CoJCoLDS absolutely depends upon the willing acceptance and permission of the person for whom the work is done.

So please excuse me, Stormy, if I don’t seem as empathetic as you think I should be here: from OUR POV (the Mormons who you neither like and from the LDS doctrine which you no longer believe in ) you are absolutely free of any promise you may have made. Nothing your ex does, or can do, will make any difference to you without your direct and absolute permission.

Now…when Catholics cease to baptise infants without their permission, and cease believing that this baptism DOES ‘stick’ whether or not that infant later accepts it, THEN I might see some sense in a Catholic objecting to LDS proxy work.

…but not until. I hope that you can see why that would be.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Maria, I see that you have had answers from several people…all of whom are giving you information through a particularly angry, bitter and very biased viewpoint. (shrug)

According to this,a 1993 study in Demography magazine shows that “Mormons marrying within their church are least likely of all Americans to become divorced.” That is, 13% of these marriages end after five years of marriage, as opposed to 20% of divorces among Catholics who marry one another. However, when Mormons marry outside their faith, the divorce rate goes up to 40%, according to the same study.

This is what I saw on that page:

*Brigham Young University professor Daniel K. Judd computed in the year 2000 that only 6% of those Mormons who marry in a temple ceremony subsequently go through a temple divorce. This is a small fraction of the rate in the general American population. 3 Unfortunately, the value may not be accurate:

Most Mormons who have their marriage sealed in a temple ceremony and who subsequently divorce do so in a civil ceremony. This avoids the rather complex temple “cancellation of sealing” (divorce) procedures. Thus, their divorce is not counted in the above figure.

Some Mormons marry in a temple ceremony, divorce in a civil procedure and subsequently remarry in a second temple ceremony. This would count as two temple marriages and zero temple divorces – thus reducing the apparent divorce rate.
*

 

[RebeccaJ]

It should be noted that sealing cancellations only apply to women. Since the OP is talking about a male friend, he can be sealed to another woman, no cancellation of a previous sealing is required.

 

[dianaiad]

This is what I saw on that page:

*Brigham Young University professor Daniel K. Judd computed in the year 2000 that only 6% of those Mormons who marry in a temple ceremony subsequently go through a temple divorce. This is a small fraction of the rate in the general American population. 3 Unfortunately, the value may not be accurate:

Most Mormons who have their marriage sealed in a temple ceremony and who subsequently divorce do so in a civil ceremony. This avoids the rather complex temple “cancellation of sealing” (divorce) procedures. Thus, their divorce is not counted in the above figure.

Some Mormons marry in a temple ceremony, divorce in a civil procedure and subsequently remarry in a second temple ceremony. This would count as two temple marriages and zero temple divorces – thus reducing the apparent divorce rate.
*

Apples and oranges, as is the note by Judd. You are referring to two different studies. The one I referenced referred only to legal, CIVIL divorces. After all, a sealing cancelation is a non-issue when Mormons marry non-Mormons, since only Temple worthy Mormons MAY get “Temple” marriages, or sealings.

At least, sir, I gave the unvarnished facts and didn’t attempt to whitewash the high divorce rate for LDS/non-LDS marriages. The fact that you are equivocating sealing cancelations with civil divorces simply confirms my claim; you are presenting your views of Mormonism through a biased viewpoint.

“Biased” is expected; everybody is, when discussing religion. However, when that bias is so strong that that one feels justified in deliberately presenting falsehoods in order to discredit the target faith, one puts oneself solidly in the ‘anti’ catagory, and destroys ones own credibility.

 

[tundramom]

Maria, I see that you have had answers from several people…all of whom are giving you information through a particularly angry, bitter and very biased viewpoint. (shrug)

.

I don’t think I was angry or bitter in my explanation. Why did you say “all”?

Steph

 

[dianaiad]

I don’t think I was angry or bitter in my explanation. Why did you say “all”?

Steph

You are absolutely right, Steph. Your explanation was clear, short, and factual, and I should not have said ‘all,’ including you. I’m sorry!

 

[tundramom]

shaw: Apology accepted, and none really needed my dear.

Just wanted to let you (and others) know that I have no anger about it.

Steph

 

[stormy99]

Now when did baptism enter in a divorce conversation?

So baptising children at age 8 when they are still a minor is ok but infant baptism isn’t?
No difference there, in both instances the parents make the choice and the children have no say in it.

And I’m not saying either religion is right in doing it the way they do…everyone adheres to the doctrines of their church.

And for the record, I do not dislike Mormons. They are like every other group, there are super wonderful people and then there are those that aren’t. They are no different than any other religious or cultural group in that respect. True?

You don’t have to emphasize…I never asked for it nor do I need it. I have been in Mormonism and I’m sure his parents, sister, and his bishop told me the Facts on Sealings…both for marriage and for the Dead…I don’t believe they would lie.

Because if what you say is true…they all lied…each and everyone of them…

stormy

 

[Todd520]

WOW, I can’t believe how competitive or judgmental everyone gets on the RC vs LDS threads.

• Who has the higher divorce rate, and with what nuances
• Which is easier – annulment or unsealing
• Etc.

Let’s stop competing and just share honest information

 

[Maria1212]

The short answer is that Mormons can be married either by a civil marriage, which ends in death; or married in a Mormons temple for eternity, which doesn’t end in death. If they are married by a civil marriage, then they can also get a civil divorce, like everybody else can, without the involvement of the Church. If they are sealed in a Mormon temple for eternity, then the procedure is a bit more complicated than that. The only way to undo a sealed marriage is to file a special request to the First Presidency of the Church, and it will be decided at their discretion. In practice, however, things can get a bit more complicated still because a Mormon temple marriage necessarily also has a civil aspect associated with it; but I would be making it unnecessarily complicated to go into that detail.

Thanks for your reply zerinus. (BTW, the capital z is broken on my keyboard-I mean no disrespect by using lower case). I was taken aback by the hostility by both Catholics and Mormons (and former Mormons/LDS) so I appreciate your succinct response. The more I read everyone`s responses, the more confused I got. I think I need to reread everything.

Sincerely,

Maria1212

 

[zerinus]

Thanks for your reply zerinus. (BTW, the capital z is broken on my keyboard-I mean no disrespect by using lower case).

No worries. I don’t capitalize z either. It is not my real name anyway, so who cares!

I was taken aback by the hostility by both Catholics and Mormons (and former Mormons/LDS) so I appreciate your succinct response.

Unfortunately this board is dominated by former Mormon apostates who (like former Catholic apostates), have turned against their former religion, and have nothing but hostility to show towards it; and Mormons who have become so caught up in the “anti-Mormon” debate that they have lost the ability to recognize and give simple and straightforward answers to a simple, honest, and straightforward inquiry. But I am glad you found my answer helpful.

The more I read everyone’s responses, the more confused I got. I think I need to reread everything.

I wouldn’t recommend it, unless you are fond of torturing yourself needlessly!

 

[Todd520]

I did some research on this topic and was shocked at the lack of official information on LDS Temple divorces (unsealings). It’s discussed in forums but not mentioned on LDS.org etc.

In contrast, it’s extremely easy to find clear information on how the Catholic Annulment process works.

 

[zerinus]

I did some research on this topic and was shocked at the lack of official information on LDS Temple divorces (unsealings). It’s discussed in forums but not mentioned on LDS.org etc.

In contrast, it’s extremely easy to find clear information on how the Catholic Annulment process works.

What kind of information were you looking for? “Unsealing” a Mormon temple marriage is a rare occurrence that would only affect Mormons, and any Mormon finding him/herself in that situation can easily find out the procedure for that by talking to his/her local bishop or stake president. I don’t see what need there is for the LDS Church to put out information about that on the Internet.

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Some far older women was interested in me (she’s LDS). Anyway, I told her I was leaving the church, most likely. I then asked if she still wanted to meet. She said she just met a new man a she’s fallen hard for him. So brought him to church. She posted on her facebook page how much in love she is, with a man she’s known for under two weeks. Now she’s posting she’s getting married! lol. I knew when she contacted me she wanted to introduce me to the LDS church and get married, just to fit in with the other LDS people - go to the temple, get sealed, exulted! etc… LOL. After two weeks she’s getting married. Only in the LDS church. lol. Amazing.

 

[Todd520]

What kind of information were you looking for? “Unsealing” a Mormon temple marriage is a rare occurrence that would only affect Mormons, and any Mormon finding him/herself in that situation can easily find out the procedure for that by talking to his/her local bishop or stake president. I don’t see what need there is for the LDS Church to put out information about that on the Internet.

zerinus, the possible rarity of temple unsealings is not a justification for hiding the process from investigators or members of other faiths that are curious about how LDS operate. Lack of clarity leads to misinformation and rumors.

Why shouldn’t the process be made clear to investigators or even catholics?

 

[Todd520]

I knew when she contacted me she wanted to introduce me to the LDS church and get married, just to fit in with the other LDS people - go to the temple, get sealed, exulted! etc… LOL. After two weeks she’s getting married. Only in the LDS church. lol. Amazing.

Tiki, I am TOTALLY AMAZED at your ability to read minds. Is this something you picked up at a charismatic revival, or is it genetic (think MEDIUM).

Or are you just making up the background story to stroke your ego (sin of PRIDE)

 

[TikiTokiguy]

Tiki, I am TOTALLY AMAZED at your ability to read minds. Is this something you picked up at a charismatic revival, or is it genetic (think MEDIUM).

Or are you just making up the background story to stroke your ego (sin of PRIDE)

Nope. All true. All my claims can be backed up. I’m sure all of my personal claims have been experienced by other ex-LDS also.

Nothing wrong with meeting a guy and agreeing to being married in a few weeks. It’s a free country. And I’m not 100% certain on this, but I’m going to safely assume she’s getting married so quickly just because she’s had that same message jammed down her throat Sunday after Sunday and has the urge to fit in with the rest of the LDS women - married and go to the temple and praise God, Jesus and Joseph Smith.

I can safely assume this because I met a girl on a dating site and got her number. I did not tell her I was LDS but I did tell her I was looking for a new church.
A few days later she gave my email to her friend (the older LDS woman) and she emailed me saying she was interested in my profile. She brought up churches and said “I heard you are looking for a new church. You should try out the LDS church some time. I’m not trying to convert you but it’s a really nice church!”

I figured after reading that “I’m not trying to convert you” statement she really wanted me to join the church and get married. Reading about her new boyfriend and future marriage after only two weeks only reconfirms my belief and tells me I am right. Still, that’s OK. It’s a free country.

I’ve told her about the church’s past and she clearly said she does not care or even pays attention to the past even though she aware of the bad past. Well, at least she’s honest with that.

 

[zerinus]

zerinus, the possible rarity of temple unsealings is not a justification for hiding the process from investigators or members of other faiths that are curious about how LDS operate. Lack of clarity leads to misinformation and rumors.

Why shouldn’t the process be made clear to investigators or even catholics?

The procedure is simple. A request is made to the First Presidency for the cancellation of the sealing. Now whether there is a form to fill in, or it is done by writing a letter to the First Presidency office, I wouldn’t know, because I have never been involved in it. But just because the information is not made public doesn’t mean the Church is trying to “hide” something. That is just a silly accusation to make.

 

[Todd520]

The procedure is simple. A request is made to the First Presidency for the cancellation of the sealing. Now whether there is a form to fill in, or it is done by writing a letter to the First Presidency office, I wouldn’t know, because I have never been involved in it. But just because the information is not made public doesn’t mean the Church is trying to “hide” something. That is just a silly accusation to make.

zerinus, i only said lack of clarity leads to rumor and misinformation, but I do agree it creates an opening for ‘accusation’ by other parties.

Further Information must be clarified to help squash rumors:

• can both man or woman request unsealing
• what are the grounds for unsealing?
• etc.

Catholic annulment is also a very difficult process yet it is very easy to find details on the procedure and grounds to justify.