Mormon missionaries at it again!

[Jerusha]

Be careful what you wish for.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=244918

I’m sure BULGARIA understands that slippery slope. :coffeeread:

 

[PaulDupre]

I am LDS (Mormon) and find it a disgrace that a couple of missionaries have acted in such an inappropriate manner (I assume the story is accurate). Please understand that such actions do not represent the LDS community as a whole.

pw,
I’m sure you are one of the good guys. But incidents like this involving Mormon “elders” are not uncommon. It is just that recently they are being reported. In former times, when people didn’t run to the media with every little thing, these incidents were not reported.

When I was an LDS missionary (in Taiwan 1977-1979), several elders boasted of doing this exact thing. My BIL boasted of doing it on his mission in New England. At BYU, I heard a number of RMs boast of doing it, too. Among the Mormon boys it’s considered a very macho thing to do.

The desecration of the Catholic shrine in Colorado is still fresh in our memories and the excuses and denials from the LDS were the same as the ones being offered in this case.

Deja Vu!

 

[Paul_G]

This story is more like the priest wants the Mormons out of the country and embellished a story to fit his agenda - to get the kind of reaction I am reading here I presume. It doesn’t appear that the good folks here are concerned whether a story is true or not, just so long as it enables a good finger waging. I have read two different accounts of this story and guess what, they’re different from each other.

Paul

 

[BartBurk]

I don’t believe this ever happened. This sounds to me like a priest who is trying to give bad publicity to the Mormon Church. No pair of missionaries that I have ever known would have done something like this. I simply think it is a false story. It was not unusual in Venezuela to hear stories like this from other religious leaders who were trying to hurt the Mormon missionary work.

 

[RC_Matt]

I don’t believe this ever happened. This sounds to me like a priest who is trying to give bad publicity to the Mormon Church. No pair of missionaries that I have ever known would have done something like this. I simply think it is a false story. It was not unusual in Venezuela to hear stories like this from other religious leaders who were trying to hurt the Mormon missionary work.

Well, whatever, but apparently their deportment was such that it came to the attention of the Priest during Mass, and that in itself indicates that their behavior was disruptive. According to the Priest, the missionaries had also been handing out Mormon pamphlets to parishioners waiting to enter the church for Palm Sunday Mass. That sort of thing is highly inappropriate and you can’t blame them for being aggravated. We’re grown accustomed to it here, but some people just aren’t going to have much tolerance for the deceptive hard-sell tactics of a goofy foreign cult. Particularly a cult which will demand 10% of the income from people who are already suffering economic deprivation, and a cult with tenets so ridiculous that a 12-year-old should know better than to accept them as anything other than sophomoric foolishness.

 

[Jerusha]

If it did happen, there were plenty of witnesses. Therefore, the problem should quickly resolve itself.

 

[Paul_G]

If it did happen, there were plenty of witnesses. Therefore, the problem should quickly resolve itself.

Jerusha your comments seem to be more level headed than most. There should absolutely be witness, that’s the problem, a story like this should have created the same stir as here, but there has been no follow up with the source first quoted, reporting statements of witnesses, however only what the priest insists has ever been reported.

Paul

 

[RebeccaJ]

Jerusha your comments seem to be more level headed than most. There should absolutely be witness, that’s the problem, a story like this should have created the same stir as here, but there has been no follow up with the source first quoted, reporting statements of witnesses, however only what the priest insists has ever been reported.

Paul

Could be the Bulgarian media doesn’t work in the way that we all wish media would.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Jerusha your comments seem to be more level headed than most. There should absolutely be witness, that’s the problem, a story like this should have created the same stir as here, but there has been no follow up with the source first quoted, reporting statements of witnesses, however only what the priest insists has ever been reported.

Paul

This isn’t must see news, it’s a tiny spat in a small church in a small corner of the world. Why do you think deep investigative journalism should be brought to bear. If the Methodists in Cynthiana IN were insulted by the tactics of some other religion would it make world news?

 

[cyberjacques]

I am LDS (Mormon) and find it a disgrace that a couple of missionaries have acted in such an inappropriate manner (I assume the story is accurate). Please understand that such actions do not represent the LDS community as a whole. My response to the article was a sense of disgust which I feel is similar to the reaction many of you had. Missionaries, as young as they are, can get caught up in immature emotions and ideas. I am truly sorry that something like this has happened. I personally have attended many other faiths out of curiosity and interest and have had wonderful experiences and interactions. I have nothing but the highest respect for these various religions and the strivings of their followers to live good faithful lives.

pw, your outrage is commendable, but it’s important that you realize that your sentiments are severely in the minority. Mormons as a whole seem more concerned with either making excuses for these and other missionaries, or simply denying that it ever happens at all.

 

[Paul_G]

pw, your outrage is commendable, but it’s important that you realize that your sentiments are severely in the minority. Mormons as a whole seem more concerned with either making excuses for these and other missionaries, or simply denying that it ever happens at all.

Well, we will wait and see, this news service thought is was a good enough story to go with in the first place, another service ran the story as well. It is more likely that with comments from other people present they decided not to go any further. I can appreciate that the priest in question, looking out for the interests of his flock, may have exaggerated his claim to rid his community of those that do not believe as he does. I get him, and I get those here who itch to use this kind of stuff to vent their indignation.

Paul

 

[Paul_G]

Could be the Bulgarian media doesn’t work in the way that we all wish media would.

Could be, they didn’t to be made to look foolish

Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

Follow-up story from SophiaEcho.com

(Note that the LDS Church does not deny that the incident occurred, they are just denying that it was an “invasion”.)

The incident with Mormons in Bourgas was not an invasion - church statement
21:14 Sat 07 Jun 2008 - Petar Kostadinov

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Bulgaria has reacted to media reports about a incident that happened on June 5 2008 in the town of Bourgas on the Black Sea.

Christian Orthodox priests claimed that Mormon ministers interrupted a service held at SS Cyril and Methodius church and had to be physically removed of the church.

The website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Bulgaria posted a statement on the issue in response to the news that was reported intensely by Bulgarian-language media.

“Missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not invade in SS Cyril and Methodius temple in Bourgas,” the statement said.

"Missionaries and members of the church [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints] are brought up to show respect and tolerance to the doctrines and members of other religions and this respect is reflected in the doctrine of the church [The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints].

“The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is officially registered in Bulgaria in compliance to the country’s laws and church members follow these laws completely.”

According to father Zahari Dachev from SS Cyril and Methodius church, a group of Mormons entered the church on June 5 during the service for Spassov Den (the day of the Ascension of Christ the Saviour, celebrated on the fortieth day after Easter). They interrupted the service by talking to people, he said.

Dachev entered into an argument with the Mormons and had them taken out. He said he had filed a complaint to the police and sent a letter to the US embassy in Bulgaria. He also asked for the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to be banned in Bulgaria.

According to the church website The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Bulgaria has a membership of a total of 2115 people, one mission and 21 congregations.

Church missionaries have been preaching in Bulgaria since 1990.

 

[Paul_G]

Follow-up story from SophiaEcho.com

(Note that the LDS Church does not deny that the incident occurred, they are just denying that it was an “invasion”.)

I did more checking around here is the Church statement on the matter

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released this statement: “Contrary to erroneous media reports, two missionaries serving in Burgas, Bulgaria, did nothing to disrupt the services of a local church, and when asked to leave, did so immediately. The missionaries were invited to attend the church service by a member of the congregation.”

Here is a comment by someone who appears to be more closely acquainted with the incident

"The missionaries were invited to the service by an investigator. They stood in the corner in the back…He saw them and immediately yelled at them. The lady who invited them protested that she had invited them, but the priest wouldn’t listen. The missionaries left immediately. There was no scene made by the missionaries, no material passed out, or attempts to preach. “

So there you have it

Paul

 

[RebeccaJ]

I did more checking around here is the Church statement on the matter

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints released this statement: “Contrary to erroneous media reports, two missionaries serving in Burgas, Bulgaria, did nothing to disrupt the services of a local church, and when asked to leave, did so immediately. The missionaries were invited to attend the church service by a member of the congregation.”

Here is a comment by someone who appears to be more closely acquainted with the incident

"The missionaries were invited to the service by an investigator. They stood in the corner in the back…He saw them and immediately yelled at them. The lady who invited them protested that she had invited them, but the priest wouldn’t listen. The missionaries left immediately. There was no scene made by the missionaries, no material passed out, or attempts to preach. “

So there you have it

Paul

It is more complicated than all that. Bulgaria has limited religious freedom. The Bulgarian Orthodox Church is the “traditional” religion, and it is written into their national constitution with that distinction.

A complaint against a foreign religion can be taken before a religious denomination dept, where all religions must be registered. Except the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. I don’t know all the rules for a foreign church. There are laws surrounding proselyting, and I don’t know what they are. But perhaps that is what the priest thought the missionaries were doing, proselyting.

It comes down to he said, she said, and unfortunately for the Mormon church, the Bulgarian Orthodox Church holds much more sway in these matters.

 

[Paul_G]

It is more complicated than all that. Bulgaria has limited religious freedom. The Bulgarian Orthodox Church is the “traditional” religion, and it is written into their national constitution with that distinction.

A complaint against a foreign religion can be taken before a religious denomination dept, where all religions must be registered. Except the Bulgarian Orthodox Church. I don’t know all the rules for a foreign church. There are laws surrounding proselyting, and I don’t know what they are. But perhaps that is what the priest thought the missionaries were doing, proselyting.

It comes down to he said, she said, and unfortunately for the Mormon church, the Bulgarian Orthodox Church holds much more sway in these matters.

That kind of fits with what the person was saying on the Sophia mission website that this particular “priest is aligned with the Ataka party and was previously involved in the attempt to remove all “outside” religions and “sects” from Burgas.” So there seems to be a pre-existing intolerance behind what happened.

Paul

 

[why_me]

And so, what do we have on this thread? A group of catholics who decided to prejudge an incident and use it against the lds faith. When in fact, the article shows the intolerance of the orthrodox priest in that town. Thus, we see that even in orthodoxy, priests are imperfect and very human in their imperfections.

Now can we all have some apologies by the judgemental catholics on this thread?

 

[why_me]

That kind of fits with what the person was saying on the Sophia mission website that this particular “priest is aligned with the Ataka party and was previously involved in the attempt to remove all “outside” religions and “sects” from Burgas.” So there seems to be a pre-existing intolerance behind what happened.

Paul

And that priest priest calls himself a christian. In many orthodox societies, ie, Russia, there is an intolerance toward other faiths by the orthodox church, especially toward the lds and JWs. There is a problem among some orthodox priests in accepting newness.

 

[ibkc]

And so, what do we have on this thread? A group of catholics who decided to prejudge an incident and use it against the lds faith. When in fact, the article shows the intolerance of the orthrodox priest in that town.

I dunno; I think it shows nothing beyond one party claiming one thing and the other party claiming another thing.

From my experiences with Mormon missionaries, I would tend to believe the explanations from the Mormons. It seems likely that the young men were in the church for whatever reason, not making a scene, and the priest simply got upset with their presence. On the other hand, I absolutely cannot blame the priest for that. If I saw guys dressed to identify themselves as Mormon missionaries in my church, I have to say that I would assume they were there to proselytize.

But all that is just a guess. It’s impossible to know what really happened with each side telling such different stories.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Well now we have 2 sides to the story. The thing is from the follow up story we have the LSD leaders (that were not there) telling us it did not happen as frist reported. I tend to believe the Priest in the first report as being closer to the truth (maybe a little over stated ) We do not know what had happened prior to this that may have contributed to the whole scene. I do know from the few LDS missionaries that i have run It is not a pleasant experience. I was stopped on the street by about 6 of them that started telling me how wrong the catholic church was. That the only church that contained the truth was the LDS the problem was that they were blocking my way i had to shove my way through them as they would not let me pass. So My experience tend to lead me to see the story of the the Priest as being closer to what really happened than that by LDS leaders that were not there.