Mormon missionaries at it again!

[Paul_G]

We dont kick people out in the US the LDS church takes them to Court - They do there - read thier Constitution

You have your facts crossed, we did not instigate any court action it was taken out against us by the civil liberties folks, form there it took a normal course of events through the court system. Not the same thing at all. So what if the two countries systems are different your where trying to make a case for similar intent.

Paul

 

[dosdog]

You have your facts crossed, we did not instigate any court action it was taken out against us by the civil liberties folks, form there it took a normal course of events through the court system. Not the same thing at all. So what if the two countries systems are different your where trying to make a case for similar intent.

Paul

Mormon church appeals Main Street free-speech ruling

SALT LAKE CITY — The Mormon church filed an appeal yesterday seeking to overturn the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal’s ruling that the sidewalks of the church-owned Main Street plaza must remain open to free speech

On Oct. 9, the 10th Circuit ruled that Main Street plaza sidewalks are traditional public spaces. The court said restricting free speech on the Main Street sidewalks, even though owned by the church, was unconstitutional.
firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=3282

CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF BULGARIA
Art. 13.
Eastern Orthodox Christianity shall be considered the traditional religion in the Republic of Bulgaria.

 

[Paul_G]

Mormon church appeals Main Street free-speech ruling

SALT LAKE CITY — The Mormon church filed an appeal yesterday seeking to overturn the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeal’s ruling that the sidewalks of the church-owned Main Street plaza must remain open to free speech

On Oct. 9, the 10th Circuit ruled that Main Street plaza sidewalks are traditional public spaces. The court said restricting free speech on the Main Street sidewalks, even though owned by the church, was unconstitutional.
firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=3282

CONSTITUTION OF THE REPUBLIC OF BULGARIA
Art. 13.
Eastern Orthodox Christianity shall be considered the traditional religion in the Republic of Bulgaria.

How does this contradict my comments?

Paul

 

[dosdog]

How does this contradict my comments?

Paul

We have Mormons trying to violate the Constitution of 2 countries

 

[Paul_G]

We have Mormons trying to violate the Constitution of 2 countries

That is an interesting statement, could you explain to us how LDS are accomplishing this.

Paul

 

[dosdog]

That is an interesting statement, could you explain to us how LDS are accomplishing this.

Paul

1949 Denominations Act. The act is extremely prohibitive. Art. 23 prohibits all religious denominations with centers abroad from establishing missions, religious orders or
charitable organizations in Bulgaria.
forbids foreigners from proselytizing and administering religious services in the country.

‘Denominations Act’
2002 ‘Law on Foreign Persons’ The amendments for foreign national religious workers and missionaries no explicit visa category applies to them
ecmi.de/doc/Parallel_Reports_Database/download/Art_08.pdf

Council of Ministers (Art. 6). Art. 29, para. 2 forbids people doing alternative service to “conduct religious or atheistic propaganda.”

On Oct. 9, the 10th Circuit ruled that Main Street plaza sidewalks are traditional public spaces. The court said restricting free speech on the Main Street sidewalks, even though owned by the church, was unconstitutional.
firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=3282

 

[Paul_G]

1949 Denominations Act. The act is extremely prohibitive. Art. 23 prohibits all religious denominations with centers abroad from establishing missions, religious orders or
charitable organizations in Bulgaria.
forbids foreigners from proselytizing and administering religious services in the country.

‘Denominations Act’
2002 ‘Law on Foreign Persons’ The amendments for foreign national religious workers and missionaries no explicit visa category applies to them
ecmi.de/doc/Parallel_Reports_Database/download/Art_08.pdf

Council of Ministers (Art. 6). Art. 29, para. 2 forbids people doing alternative service to “conduct religious or atheistic propaganda.”

The Sophia mission is registered with the government of Bulgaria, and is there legally with the privilege to share the LDS message to those who will listen. That is what the priest is trying to do is to have them removed from the list of approved “creeds” in Bulgaria

On Oct. 9, the 10th Circuit ruled that Main Street plaza sidewalks are traditional public spaces. The court said restricting free speech on the Main Street sidewalks, even though owned by the church, was unconstitutional.
firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=3282

The church entered into a land purchase with certain expectations and requested certain reasonable conditions for behaviour. This was changed by a civil liberties group the Church is well within its rights to ask for these conditions, and have their day in court. What ever the decision the church will abide by it, this is not an attack on the constitution it is the exercise of it.

Paul

 

[Alma147]

1949 Denominations Act. The act is extremely prohibitive. Art. 23 prohibits all religious denominations with centers abroad from establishing missions, religious orders or
charitable organizations in Bulgaria.
forbids foreigners from proselytizing and administering religious services in the country.

‘Denominations Act’
2002 ‘Law on Foreign Persons’ The amendments for foreign national religious workers and missionaries no explicit visa category applies to them
ecmi.de/doc/Parallel_Reports_Database/download/Art_08.pdf

Council of Ministers (Art. 6). Art. 29, para. 2 forbids people doing alternative service to “conduct religious or atheistic propaganda.”

On Oct. 9, the 10th Circuit ruled that Main Street plaza sidewalks are traditional public spaces. The court said restricting free speech on the Main Street sidewalks, even though owned by the church, was unconstitutional.
firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=3282

October 3, 2005: Tenth Circuit Court issues its decision, ruling that the Main Street Plaza is no longer a public forum and that the city’s decision to sell the easement did not violate the Establishment Clause.

Your Oct 9th citation was from 2002, three years before the Federal Court’s final ruling. There’s a big difference between the “truth” and the “whole truth.”

BTW, the claims of the Bugarian Press are contested by LDS Church and missionaries involved. Looks to me like the missionaries were set up for a trap.
Alma

 

[dosdog]

The Sophia mission is registered with the government of Bulgaria, and is there legally with the privilege to share the LDS message to those who will listen. That is what the priest is trying to do is to have them removed from the list of approved “creeds” in Bulgaria

The church entered into a land purchase with certain expectations and requested certain reasonable conditions for behaviour. This was changed by a civil liberties group the Church is well within its rights to ask for these conditions, and have their day in court. What ever the decision the church will abide by it, this is not an attack on the constitution it is the exercise of it.

Paul

US STATE DEPARTMENT

1949, which is technically still in effect, and which forbids foreigners from proselytizing and administering religious services in the country.
state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2004/35446.htm

 

[Alma147]

Oh I dunno, seems to be a disingenuous stance by mormons. The only reason a mormon missionary agrees to go to Mass is that they are doing it as part of proselyting. In the spirit of, I’ll go to Mass if you go to a mormon sacrament meeting. They are proselyting and to act like it is just acting on an invitation with no proselyting motive behind it is lying.

The priest is acting within the laws of Bulgaria. That mormons don’t like the laws because it doesn’t suit their purposes is let-me-cry-a-river-for-you.

Hardly. As a missionary to Italy 30 years ago, I went to Catholic Mass because I wanted to see it for myself. I did no proselytizing, listened quietly and left quietly.

Alma

 

[dosdog]

Hardly. As a missionary to Italy 30 years ago, I went to Catholic Mass because I wanted to see it for myself. I did no proselytizing, listened quietly and left quietly.

Alma

Open your Temples then get back to me

 

[dosdog]

October 3, 2005: Tenth Circuit Court issues its decision, ruling that the Main Street Plaza is no longer a public forum and that the city’s decision to sell the easement did not violate the Establishment Clause.

Your Oct 9th citation was from 2002, three years before the Federal Court’s final ruling. There’s a big difference between the “truth” and the “whole truth.”

BTW, the claims of the Bugarian Press are contested by LDS Church and missionaries involved. Looks to me like the missionaries were set up for a trap.
Alma

Unfortunately, the city chose to protect the church’s religious use of the property and to prevent anyone with viewpoints other than those endorsed by the church to express them on what used to be downtown Main Street. acluutah.org/04report.htm

Lets all hope Bulgaria does the same
acluutah.org/04report.htm

 

[RebeccaJ]

Hardly. As a missionary to Italy 30 years ago, I went to Catholic Mass because I wanted to see it for myself.

Why?

 

[RebeccaJ]

I know you like to use the words disingenuous and lying almost in the same sentence and what you say may be true, after all that is what they leave home to do, but if there was a “proselyting motive” behind it, it would have been for the person who invited them, not the whole congregation, and certainly not with the intent of disrupting any service.

Well, if mormons weren’t disingenuous and lying then I wouldn’t be typing it out. You don’t disclose all of your beliefs to potential converts. Your missionaries attend other services when invited as part of their effort to convert the person. Pretending otherwise only makes you look DISINGENUOUS.

Maybe you would prefer if I use the term “lying for the Lord”?

The missionaries made everyone at Mass a part of this ruse. Expecting everyone to go along, and pretend that you are their because you are interested. When the only thing that interests a missionary is CONVERSION. That a priest objects to being made a part of this ruse is a big thumbs up for him, in my book.



Let me put it this way, I have had mormon missionaries jump me in a grocery store parking lot, asking me if they could “help” me carry my groceries. As if I don’t know that they are trying to convert me, and what, I should just play along and pretend like I don’t know what they are doing?

How stupid do you think I am?

I didn’t have a problem with the priest wanting them out the door, I believe he was well within his rights, as you point out, to ask, or even demand it. What I thought was over the top was to petition the government to have the church mission kick out of the country, that smacks of a political agenda.

Well yeah, as if the LDS church doesn’t engage in political agendas. I live in Utah. Hello.

The Main St. thing is a good example. The LDS switched the deal. They AGREED to keep the Main St. plaza open to the public, then, after the city agreed to the property switch, they changed the rules and determined that they could kick people off their property. And they got sued over it. So stop pretending like they were all the victim.

There is a link else where that shows a Protestant individual ranting around the congregation during a Catholic service, should the officiating priest go to the Governor and ask for this person’s church to be kicked of the state. I can be completely confident in saying no rational north American priest would do such a thing, as also I am sure that the priest in the video handled the real disruption to his service with Christian dignity.

I am sure if it happened repeatedly, the priest would file a complaint with the proper authorities and that person would be held to the law if they broke it.

The laws in Bulgaria are not the laws in the US. I thought mormons believed in obeying secular laws. Does that only mean US laws? Or laws that are to your favor?

 

[dosdog]

Rebecca how much did the councilmen get paid by the church for thier votes ? Big Bucks?

This is far from over a statement from a LDS website is not definitive

The website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Bulgaria posted a statement on the issue in response to the news that was reported intensely by Bulgarian-language media.

“Missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not invade in SS Cyril and Methodius temple in Bourgas,” the statement said.

 

[AmericanIDOLuvr]

I am not familiar with this “Colorado Shrine” incident. Could someone fill me in? What exactly is a shrine anyways? Is it some sort of idol or image of some kind for purpose of worship? I am new to this.

 

[dosdog]

I am not familiar with this “Colorado Shrine” incident. Could someone fill me in? What exactly is a shrine anyways? Is it some sort of idol or image of some kind for purpose of worship? I am new to this.

catholic.org/national/national_story.php?id=27141&cb300=vocations

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca how much did the councilmen get paid by the church for thier votes ? Big Bucks?

After the LDS started changing the rules for Main st and the entire state was pretty much in a cold war of non-mormon vs mormon, they made a deal. Main st was theirs to do as they please, as long as they made a land trade. So, the LDS traded some land they owned on the west side of SLC to the city.

Shortly after this the LDS church went after the Salt Lake Tribune, the former voice of the people who are not mormon in the state of Utah. The former owners made some blunders in their financial arrangements. They intended to sell the paper and then buy it back. The LDS church jumped in and bought the paper, effectively ending any reporting that is not pro-mormon in the state. As the only other major newspaper, the Deseret News, is pretty much a mormon religious rag.

[quoteThis is far from over a statement from LDS was is not definitive

The website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Bulgaria posted a statement on the issue in response to the news that was reported intensely by Bulgarian-language media.

“Missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not invade in SS Cyril and Methodius temple in Bourgas,” the statement said.
[/quote]

I agree, this looks like a statement written by lawyers.

 

[dosdog]

After the LDS started changing the rules for Main st and the entire state was pretty much in a cold war of non-mormon vs mormon, they made a deal. Main st was theirs to do as they please, as long as they made a land trade. So, the LDS traded some land they owned on the west side of SLC to the city.

Shortly after this the LDS church went after the Salt Lake Tribune, the former voice of the people who are not mormon in the state of Utah. The former owners made some blunders in their financial arrangements. They intended to sell the paper and then buy it back. The LDS church jumped in and bought the paper, effectively ending any reporting that is not pro-mormon in the state. As the only other major newspaper, the Deseret News, is pretty much a mormon religious rag.

[quoteThis is far from over a statement from LDS was is not definitive

The website of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Bulgaria posted a statement on the issue in response to the news that was reported intensely by Bulgarian-language media.

“Missionaries of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints did not invade in SS Cyril and Methodius temple in Bourgas,” the statement said.

I agree, this looks like a statement written by lawyers.
[/quote]

I feel for You our big paper is owned by The LA Times

Once the Bulgarian Govt. post a staement I’ll be sure check in

I am really tired of Mormon Whinners -& double standard garbage - You get what you give

 

[why_me]

Open your Temples then get back to me

You are more than welcome to visit a mormon temple before it has been dedicated. After that, no go. However, you are more than welcome to attend an lds church service. You can wear priest’s clothing if you wish. No one would care or boot you out but they would be curious.