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zerinus
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Don’t you think the least you could have done was to read that article before asking that question?
zerinus
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PaulDupre
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I went over to the Mormon Apologetics discussion board to see what they are saying. They are all focusing on the statue and whether the head may have been broken off already.
None of them understand the much deeper crime described in the news report:
Paul
None of them understand the much deeper crime described in the news report:
These little jerks profaned a Catholic altar - the consecrated place where the Eucharist is confected. And pretending to do a human sacrifice on that altar is a reflection of how Mormons are taught that Catholics perform pagan cannabalistic rituals in our churches. None of the Mormons seem to understand what the deeper problem is with this incident. Not surprising.
Paul
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Annie_B
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It does seem that Zerinus is exhibiting the behavior you encountered in Utah. This is sad, as I previously respected his opinion. Now I am not so sure
Annie
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Meinrad
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Don’t get me wrong, I have met quite a few Mormons I really liked and whom I respect a great deal. It’s just that I seem to have more that I don’t…It does seem that Zerinus is exhibiting the behavior you encountered in Utah. This is sad, as I previously respected his opinion. Now I am not so sure
Annie
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Annie_B
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I understand and I do think that it was horrible what was done. I also find it sad that Mormons are defending these guys just because they are Mormon! It is time for cookie-cutter Mormons (and Catholics, Baptists, Methodists etc…) to break out of their mold and stand up for what is right. Many of them do; most here do not.
Annie
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zerinus
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Yes, when out of your wits, make a silly joke! That will hopefully get you off the hook.ok children stop throwing stones
zerinus
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Annie_B
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flameburns623
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Look, let’s not engage in ‘trial by Internet’. Despite the caption under the photo, the head of the statue may have been broken already, and the missionary shown holding it may simply have picked it up from it’s base to pose with it. The caption could be a misstatement for any number of reasons. We don’t know the exact details of what the one missionary has confessed to: he simply acknowledges some measure of wrongdoing.
Most of the other photos show the missionaries engaged in poses of various kinds. In which case the young men may be guilty of minor sacrilege but not outright vandalism. Let’s wait and see what the discovery process determines. I think the justice system can be counted upon to be reasonably fair and impartial, especially given the length of time that has elapsed since the incident took place.
The severity of the punishment meted out to the young men by the LDS Church will be tempered by a Church investigation to determine what they actually did, as well as by whatever the investigation of the legal authorities determines and makes public for the church court to evaluate. The young men themselves will be closely questioned by a Church court, I believe. I stand by my earlier statements that the punishment could be relatively severe and lengthy in contrast to what other churches are wont to impose for similar bad behavior. Mormons place a high store on the idea that repentance should not merely be emotional or verbal remorse for wrongdoing, but should include a period of time in which the person actually displays true repentance–a real change of heart–by their behavior.
RebeccaJ:
And the RCC used to impose much stricter and much lengthier penances for even relatively minor infractions. I’m not quite sure when things began to change, but there was a time when Catholics guilty of mortal sins could be forbidden to take Holy Communion for months, and required to do something like clean the local church every week for reparation. I think it was the influence of the Jesuit order which led to the encouragement of frequent communion as well as rather more lenient penances.
Majick275: I could be mistaken but I just do not think the LDS Church will ‘circle the wagons’ to defend these boys. Some sort of penalty will be imposed upon them, and these actions are likely to derail their progression within the LDS Church for years to come. It may well be a very long time before they will be allowed to serve in significant positions of leadership. This wouldn’t be related to any specific Church discipline, it would simply follow from the fact that this behavior will be recorded on their Church records and will make any Church authority reluctant to appoint them to such roles.
Of course, some of the boys may have ‘connections’ within the LDS Church which can offset that. Or one or more of the boys may be so virtuous and diligent in their Church service that they overcome this one act of miscreance by the very saintliness of their character. But for the most part, the public nature of this incident, not to mention that it happened while they were representing their Church on a mission, will handicap these boys long after the episode is forgotten to the public mind.
Most of the other photos show the missionaries engaged in poses of various kinds. In which case the young men may be guilty of minor sacrilege but not outright vandalism. Let’s wait and see what the discovery process determines. I think the justice system can be counted upon to be reasonably fair and impartial, especially given the length of time that has elapsed since the incident took place.
The severity of the punishment meted out to the young men by the LDS Church will be tempered by a Church investigation to determine what they actually did, as well as by whatever the investigation of the legal authorities determines and makes public for the church court to evaluate. The young men themselves will be closely questioned by a Church court, I believe. I stand by my earlier statements that the punishment could be relatively severe and lengthy in contrast to what other churches are wont to impose for similar bad behavior. Mormons place a high store on the idea that repentance should not merely be emotional or verbal remorse for wrongdoing, but should include a period of time in which the person actually displays true repentance–a real change of heart–by their behavior.
Actually, in LDS theology if one or more of the young men were to die while repentant but while under a decree of Church discipline they would be restored to their former position in the afterlife. Not entirely unlike Purgatory, though one should not derive unwarranted parallels between the LDS afterlife and the RCC view of the afterlife.
And the RCC used to impose much stricter and much lengthier penances for even relatively minor infractions. I’m not quite sure when things began to change, but there was a time when Catholics guilty of mortal sins could be forbidden to take Holy Communion for months, and required to do something like clean the local church every week for reparation. I think it was the influence of the Jesuit order which led to the encouragement of frequent communion as well as rather more lenient penances.
Majick275: I could be mistaken but I just do not think the LDS Church will ‘circle the wagons’ to defend these boys. Some sort of penalty will be imposed upon them, and these actions are likely to derail their progression within the LDS Church for years to come. It may well be a very long time before they will be allowed to serve in significant positions of leadership. This wouldn’t be related to any specific Church discipline, it would simply follow from the fact that this behavior will be recorded on their Church records and will make any Church authority reluctant to appoint them to such roles.
Of course, some of the boys may have ‘connections’ within the LDS Church which can offset that. Or one or more of the boys may be so virtuous and diligent in their Church service that they overcome this one act of miscreance by the very saintliness of their character. But for the most part, the public nature of this incident, not to mention that it happened while they were representing their Church on a mission, will handicap these boys long after the episode is forgotten to the public mind.
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Annie_B
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I read the two articles posted by the op. Apparently I missed something. That is why I asked the question.
Annie
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Meinrad
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Oh, yeah, I’ve had a room mate, a few co-workers, and at least one person on this forum who is nice, respectful, and who I can and do respect for their opinion.Glad there are at least some that you liked
ANnie
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zerinus
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Meinrad
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I am the people? Anyway, it is established that they did something wrong, they admitted to it, yet you deny it because they are Mormon.
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why_me
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It is not a reflection of how mormons are taught about catholics. But it is an example of how young men can make a wrong decision. I believe that it was Jesus who made it clear that those who were without sin can cast the first stone.
Young people do studid things for all the wrong reasons. And this was a case in this incident.
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why_me
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They might be defending them because they were young men in the process of maturing. These actions can not be defended but they can be understood in context.I understand and I do think that it was horrible what was done. I also find it sad that Mormons are defending these guys just because they are Mormon! It is time for cookie-cutter Mormons (and Catholics, Baptists, Methodists etc…) to break out of their mold and stand up for what is right. Many of them do; most here do not.
Annie
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Meinrad
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Still, they were there representing their church.
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zerinus
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You are right Annie! I have re-read your posts, and I was mistaken in my original impression of it. Sorry for the ofense caused!
zerinus
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tundramom
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Annie_B
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PaulDupre
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No.
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Annie_B
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Thank you Z. I never ask a question just to antagonize someone. I really do ask because I need or want an answer ot something I missed or do not understand.You are right Annie! I have re-read your posts, and I was mistaken in my original impression of it. Sorry for the ofense caused!
zerinus
Annie
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