Mormon missionaries vandalize and desecrate Catholic Shrine

[zerinus]

I am the people? Anyway, it is established that they did something wrong, they admitted to it, yet you deny it because they are Mormon.

I am not denying that they did something wrong. What I object to is you people acting as judge and jury of exactly what they did which was wrong, and how serious the wrong-doing was, and what the punishment should be, based on the evidence of the photobucket.

zerinus

 

[tundramom]

No.

I did just now. we’ll see if there’s a response about that.

 

[Meinrad]

First off, “you people” is antagonistic. Second, we are all just discussing what they did and how we feel about it. Of course, some of it is speculation. But most of this is just people’s opinions.

 

[rpp]

Where does it say that?

The perpetrators put the photos on the Internet. They wrote the captions.

The only conclusion that I draw from your reactions to this are really uncharitable and I will not post them.

But I refer to my earlier post, #32. You show that I was indeed wrong about the first sentence of that post. See, I can admit to being wrong.

 

[zerinus]

Thank you Z. I never ask a question just to antagonize someone. I really do ask because I need or want an answer ot something I missed or do not understand.

Annie

Thanks to you Annie. Your posts are being mixed up here with a lot of “anti-” posts, and I have to read them very quickly, and it is easy to get the wrong impression.

zerinus

 

[Jerusha]

That is just falsehood. Mormons don’t believe nor behave like that. If there are exceptions, they would have to be extremely rare.

zerinus

 

[Jerusha]

Where does it say that they actually broke the head of the statute? All I saw was a picture of one of them trying to put it back in its place. The head may have been severed before by somebody else.

zerinus

 

[flameburns623]

Not to ‘plug’ myself, but can forlks scroll back a page or two and read my last post on this subject. I think everyone needs to step back a little and give themselves time to gain a little perspective about this incident. It MAY NOT be as serious as initial reports first indicate. (Or it may be considerably worse). We really need to wait until more information is forthcoming about what actually happened. It seems clear there will be some consequences to this behavior. Let’s give people actually in a position to investigate the situation time to determine what those consequences ought to be. Let’s not react defensively because we happen to be LDS, nor howl for blood because we happen to be Roman Catholic. (In my case I am neither, which may help me have a bit more balance, admittedly). Let’s remember in any case that we consider ourselves Christian and that all of us, without respect to our other differences, believe in justice tempered by mercy.

 

[lukewarm]

To all Mormons defending these kids, by pretending to sacrifice each other on the altar is akin to someone running into a Mormon temple, taking a dump on some temple garments and tossing them into the celestial room or whatever it is. Actually for believing Catholics it’s considerably worse than that.

 

[tundramom]

To all Mormons defending these kids, by pretending to sacrifice each other on the altar is akin to someone running into a Mormon temple, taking a dump on some temple garments and tossing them into the celestial room or whatever it is. Actually for believing Catholics it’s considerably worse than that.

You are absolutely right!

 

[Meinrad]

I refer to my first post. We, as Christians, need to forgive. I think most have done that. However, to deny it is serious offends those of us who are Catholic. That’s like saying it’s not so bad for some arsonists to burn down a Mormon ward.

Also, as for the argument that the head may have already been broken, that was said by the guy in charge of the missionaries. Don’t you think the people who maintain the shrine would have known if it were broken before? Also, one report I read said that the head was missing at some point after the pictures were taken, later found, and put back in place.

 

[Annie_B]

To all Mormons defending these kids, by pretending to sacrifice each other on the altar is akin to someone running into a Mormon temple, taking a dump on some temple garments and tossing them into the celestial room or whatever it is. Actually for believing Catholics it’s considerably worse than that.

To ANYONE defending these “kids”…
there is no excuse whatsoever for this behavior…However, I do not think that your comparrison is fair or acurate. If someone were to do what you stated to a temple garment I think you would find plenty of LDS who would take the greatest offense. THe bottom line is that nobody should do this to anybody - no matter what their religion is.

Annie

 

[zerinus]

To ANYONE defending these “kids”…

To anyone condemning these “kids”. Let’s find out exactly what they did before condemning them.

zerinus

 

[Annie_B]

To all Mormons defending these kids, by pretending to sacrifice each other on the altar is akin to someone running into a Mormon temple, taking a dump on some temple garments and tossing them into the celestial room or whatever it is. Actually for believing Catholics it’s considerably worse than that.

Minor detail: nobody would be able to get into the LDS temple without a temple recommend . You can’t just “run in”

Annie

 

[Annie_B]

To anyone condemning these “kids”. Let’s find out exactly what they did before condemning them.

zerinus

You are right Z - the only problem is that we are going on what we read. We are assuming that what was in print is the truth. However, that may or may not be true. What else is there to go on Luckily none of us need to be the judge

Annie

 

[majick275]

I think the closest comparison you could make might be if a temple were open awaiting rededication after a major renovation and someone strayed from the tour and took pictures of the altar in an ordinance room in obvious garb of a different religion and with an antimormon book in hand preaching and then pretending to do human sacrifices on it. Then they take pictures of themselves trying to hide a damaged painting of moroni behind a vase.

Even then it still doesn’t portray the sense of sacrilege that a catholic would feel because of the LDS not believing in/understanding of the real presence.

I think I have a bigger problem with the LDS apologists trying to claim no wrongdoing or worse turning it into a soapbox to decry persecution of THEIR church than I do the actual acts of these missionaries.

This is wrong and people need to know just how wrong. the individuals who did this should face appropriate charges. (which may result in little or no punitive actions) and they as well as the mission president should apologize for the specific actions AFTER consulting with the pastor of that parish so that they understand what they are apologizing for and can then do so sincerely. I don’t see jail as a legitimate outcome her but I think an understanding of why this wrong gained from hearing those who were wronged is necessary as is a sincere apology from everyone involved.

 

[Annie_B]

<<Even then it still doesn’t portray the sense of sacrilege that a catholic would feel because of the LDS not believing in/understanding of the real presence.>>

I think it would be fair to say that just as the Mormon may not understand the sense of sacrilege that a Catholic feels, a Catholic may not understand how a Mormon would feel. Fair enough?

Annie

 

[zerinus]

You are right Z - the only problem is that we are going on what we read. We are assuming that what was in print is the truth. However, that may or may not be true. What else is there to go on Luckily none of us need to be the judge

Annie

Matthew 7:

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Luke 6:

37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven

John 7:

24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Moroni 7:

18 And now, my brethren, seeing that ye know the light by which ye may judge, which light is the light of Christ, see that ye do not judge wrongfully; for with that same judgment which ye judge ye shall also be judged.

Moroni 8:

19 For behold, the same that judgeth rashly shall be judged rashly again; for according to his works shall his wages be; therefore, he that smiteth shall be smitten again, of the Lord.

20 Behold what the scripture says—man shall not smite, neither shall he judge; for judgment is mine, saith the Lord, and vengeance is mine also, and I will repay.

zerinus

 

[ibkc]

It is not a reflection of how mormons are taught about catholics. But it is an example of how young men can make a wrong decision. I believe that it was Jesus who made it clear that those who were without sin can cast the first stone.

Jesus also said:

28I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. 29But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

Mark 3:28-29.

I think pretending to sacrifice a person on the altar of a shrine counts as very series blasphemy.

 

[LaMar]

Z is exhibiting classic behavior that I have encountered in Mormons in Utah. I don’t mean to be offensive, most of this I have seen at the University, and I am not saying ALL Mormons are like this, but a super-majority of the ones I have met: They are arrogant, narrow-minded, and refuse to accept they are ever wrong.

As a note to get BACK on the subject, we are talking about 3 Mormon missionaries who did something wrong. They admit it, one even apologized for it. So everyone, stop “throwing stones” and let’s have a discussion, can we? Or am I asking too much of you, Z?

I was born a Mormon and raised in a town called St. George.

This hate crime is not surprising. In fact, I have personally witnessed similar things throughout my life.

One example: during a family reunion we stopped in Carson City, Nevada, near the site of an old church. I was just a boy, but I witnessed my father and uncles go and “give a priesthood blessing” to a statue of the Virgin Mary outside. They laughed and joked about this, and boasted later that they had “cast out Satan”.

In context, it might help to understand that Mormons are taught from birth that the Catholic church is the “whore of babylon” mentioned in the Book of Revelations. The book Mormon Doctrine by the apostle Bruce R McConkie elucidates this idea quite plainly, and the author goes on with a prophesy that the anti-Christ will be appointed a pope in the future.

Mormons do not hate Catholic people, but we do feel sorry for them. We are taught that ours is the “one true church”. The Catholic church once had the truth, but has been changed into a Satanic counterfeit over the course of the centuries.

As an adult, I feel terrible about this incident, but I remember my youth and the attitudes we all grew up with, and I can sadly understand it. I see the same teachings and attitudes prevalent today. Even in this forum, there are those who would rather cover up or minimize the extent of the damage. This is the same dark, Satanic piety that motivated our church to commit the most horrible mass-murder in American History, until the terrorism of Oklahoma City. Until the CoJCoLDS can become honest about its own history, and quit demonizing and dehumanizing people of other faiths, the same sorts of tragedies (large and small) are likely to continue.