Mormon missionaries vandalize and desecrate Catholic Shrine

[LaMar]

“Mormons do these things often”?? Could you please back that up?
Thanks -
Annie

Oh please. The trashing of the one Catholic church in St. George (with toilet paper, usually) was an every weekend occurrence as I was growing up. Sad to admit, but I ran with the herd and took part a couple of times.

Annie said, someplace else:
I was Catholic, converted to LDS

Annie, why are you and other Mormons hanging out here, with a bunch of Catholics? I know the answer, of course, but I’d like to hear you explain it.

 

[Annie_B]

Oh please. The trashing of the one Catholic church in St. George (with toilet paper, usually) was an every weekend occurrence as I was growing up. Sad to admit, but I ran with the herd and took part a couple of times.

Annie said, someplace else:
I was Catholic, converted to LDS

Annie, why are you and other Mormons hanging out here, with a bunch of Catholics? I know the answer, of course, but I’d like to hear you explain it.

Yes, it is sad that you were a part of that group. As far as why we are here, did you miss the fact that this is a “Non Catholic Religions” board? And by the way, you have NO IDEA wht I am here and it is none of your business why. Even if I told you you would not believe me; you seem to assume all Mormons are the same. News flash: we are not!

Annie

 

[Meinrad]

Why was my post deleted? So many people have gone off-topic, and I went back on-topic at the end! Anyway, here is the end of what I posted…

I wish I could say I was surprised that the Mormons at work would turn themselves into the victims at something their own members did. I remember seeing some kids that had spray painted something on an LDS ward, and all the people who went there for church were standing outside, crying and staring at it.

No matter what happens with these three punks, the damage is done in two ways. Of course the statue will have to be repaired or replaced, if not already done so, but the bad publicity about Mormons is already out there again just waiting for anyone to stumble onto it.

 

[LaMar]

Yes, it is sad that you were a part of that group. As far as why we are here, did you miss the fact that this is a “Non Catholic Religions” board? And by the way, you have NO IDEA wht I am here and it is none of your business why. Even if I told you you would not believe me; you seem to assume all Mormons are the same. News flash: we are not!

Annie

“That group” consisted of nearly every Mormon in St. George Utah in the late 1980s. Sad that I was a part of our church? Perhaps.

Apparently you haven’t followed my participation. As a BIC LDS I already know we aren’t “the same”. I have no interest in being dishonest as I explore the relevant issues. In that regard I’m a very different person compared to most of the other Mormons here.

I have a very good idea why a convert to Mormonism would hang out here, and I appreciate the fact that it’s a sensitive issue to you. Thanks for answering the question with silence.

Again, to get back to the topic at hand, how do you explain the tendency for Mormons to paint themselves as victims after our missionaries are caught indulging in hate crimes? What do you think motivates these young men to defile things that are sacred to others?

 

[majick275]

I am not aware of this being a common occurrence anywhere.

I think some mormons have been very sympathetic towards the perpetrators because of the victim mentality that is inculcated in LDS churches with all of the focus on alleged early persecutions. (without going into who and more importantly why). Others perceive this type activity as commonly employed against LDS (usually by fundamentalists near temples)

I guess what bothers me here is that LDS don’t seem to be willing to make a distinction between the catholics (who have been persecuted quite a lot in many countries including the USA) and other groups. They just seem to lump all the “gentiles” together and then adopt an attitude of “it was wrong but you guys do it us more/worse”.

I don’t see this is an indictment of the LDS church as an institution. (although there is some indirect influence from the LDS church that could be seen as contributing to the culture that produced these guys) BUT…as they were acting as very visible representatives of the LDS church I think it appropriate to have local leaders who are/were/should have been responsible for these guys to issue a sincere apology that conveys some understanding of why this is so bad. (or at least an effort to gain such an understanding).

The rest is up to the courts and if there is evidence then they should order restitution to repair/replace what they damaged. any criminal charges that are proven should also result in appropriate punishment. (same punishment anyone else would face for such acts whether it be on a school, business or anything else)

I just don’t see very many LDS interested in that. the message I keep hearing (in a very small voice since few LDS appear to be commenting) is that this is all blown out of proportion because it’s mormons …which proves they are persecuted…which proves they are the true church…and it was just a prank and they should get a stern talking to and all the catholics who are offended by this should start defending the LDS church against persecution because of this. (since now they “know what it’s like”)

it really bothers me!!!

 

[LaMar]

I am not aware of this being a common occurrence anywhere.

Sadly, it’s very common in small town Utah/Idaho/Nevada, where such things don’t get taken seriously by the LDS authorities and the victims are laughed out of the station when and if they attempt to complain.

Littering and vandalism against the one Catholic church in my hometown is a very popular pastime with the youth of the church. As a kid, I thought this was funny myself and didn’t see the harm in it. (There isn’t much to do on a Saturday night, as a Mormon kid in Utah) I don’t know if it still happens to the extent it once did, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

I think that’s part of the culture which has caught so many of the faithful by surprise. People in Utah consider this sort of thing just a part of everyday life.

What, these young men vandalized a shrine? What’s wrong with that? It’s just a harmless prank… etc.

In my 20s I lived in Salt Lake City. My apartment looked down on the Cathedral of the Madeline. Cops were constantly being called there for similar “pranks” in progress. Nobody tried to burn the place down, to my knowledge, but there was plenty of public urination, littering, thrown rocks, etc.

 

[RebeccaJ]

it really bothers me!!!

Forgive those who trespass against us.

 

[Annie_B]

“That group” consisted of nearly every Mormon in St. George Utah in the late 1980s. Sad that I was a part of our church? Perhaps.

Apparently you haven’t followed my participation. As a BIC LDS I already know we aren’t “the same”. I have no interest in being dishonest as I explore the relevant issues. In that regard I’m a very different person compared to most of the other Mormons here.

I have a very good idea why a convert to Mormonism would hang out here, and I appreciate the fact that it’s a sensitive issue to you. Thanks for answering the question with silence.

Again, to get back to the topic at hand, how do you explain the tendency for Mormons to paint themselves as victims after our missionaries are caught indulging in hate crimes? What do you think motivates these young men to defile things that are sacred to others?

It is impossible for me to explain the behavior of others - Mormon or not. I have no idea what their motivations were.

As far as why I “hang out” here, I am always interested in the faith of others and the Catholic church is still close to my heart. I am not a “cookie cutter Mormon” and I have NEVER tried to “convert” anyone or change anyone’s mind on this board. I try my best to be polite and I ask honest - not hidden agenda type - questions. I have, at times, had less than friendly responses from those who are possitive that I have a hidden agenda etc. However there have been a few very kind people here who are willing to answer/discuss without judging me without knowing me.

Annie

 

[LaMar]

It is impossible for me to explain the behavior of others - Mormon or not. I have no idea what their motivations were.

Oh, come on. You don’t think being constantly indoctrinated with the idea that WE are GOOD and THEY are BAD might have had something to do with it?

I think this sort of behavior is sadly very understandable, given that we are taught from childhood that our birth into LDS homes is due to valiant deeds during the time of the war in heaven, in the pre existence. We are better than all other people. We have the truth in all its wonderful fullness.

Then we’re also taught that Catholics going to mass are worshiping the devil, and that they are either stupid people who can’t see the truth that is right in front of them, or they are evil servants of Satan.

I’m sure you and the other Mormons who are (quite inexplicably) posting here will respond with more “I don’t know that we teach that” obfuscation, so I’ll conclude by apologizing to any of the people who were affected by the latest eruption of insanity in Colorado. I hope (as do more Mormons than one might surmise) that our people will grow out of these infantile delusions of superiority someday soon, and I trust that we’ll all eventually come to see one another as brothers and sisters, despite our differences. May that day come soon.

 

[Annie_B]

Oh, come on. You don’t think being constantly indoctrinated with the idea that WE are GOOD and THEY are BAD might have had something to do with it?

I think this sort of behavior is sadly very understandable, given that we are taught from childhood that our birth into LDS homes is due to valiant deeds during the time of the war in heaven, in the pre existence. We are better than all other people. We have the truth in all its wonderful fullness.

Then we’re also taught that Catholics going to mass are worshiping the devil, and that they are either stupid people who can’t see the truth that is right in front of them, or they are evil servants of Satan.

I’m sure you and the other Mormons who are (quite inexplicably) posting here will respond with more “I don’t know that we teach that” obfuscation, so I’ll conclude by apologizing to any of the people who were affected by the latest eruption of insanity in Colorado. I hope (as do more Mormons than one might surmise) that our people will grow out of these infantile delusions of superiority someday soon, and I trust that we’ll all eventually come to see one another as brothers and sisters, despite our differences. May that day come soon.

Lighten up - you do NOT know me so you cannot “be sure” how I am going to respond to anything.

Annie

 

[PaulDupre]

As a former LDS missionary, I think I have some insight into their motivation. I was 23 years old when I went on my mission (convert at age 21) and was frequently dismayed at the behavior of the 19 year-olds in my mission.

An important facet of Mormonism is the attitude of superiority over other religions. Many Mormons have been taught from birth that other religions are at best ridiculous and at worst satanic. After all, Mormon are taught that Catholics worship statues and perform magical pagan rituals. These misconceptions cause Mormons to dehumanize non-members.

The young “elders” in my mission would often egg each other on to punish non-Mormons for their stupidity and error by engaging in disrespectful conduct. This can range from placing LDS tracts in the hands of Buddhist statues to disrupting Catholic masses or flattening the bicycle tires of competing Protestant missionaries (the Protestants flattened our tires, too).

They thought it was all good fun and never seemed to consider the hurt they caused others because, after all, they were just non-members so what did it matter?

Paul

 

[ibkc]

An important facet of Mormonism is the attitude of superiority over other religions. Many Mormons have been taught from birth that other religions are at best ridiculous and at worst satanic. After all, Mormon are taught that Catholics worship statues and perform magical pagan rituals.

That is really ironic, considering the strong influence of Freemasonry on LDS temple rituals. Freemasonry also strongly influenced ceremonial magicians like Aleister Crowley, and it also influenced Gerald Gardner when he was devising the rituals for his invented religion, Wicca. In this, the Mormons have far more in common with modern pagans than they do with any Christian group.

 

[PaulDupre]

Agreed. Every time I put on that green apron (which, according to the endowment, represents Satan’s “power and priesthoods”) I felt like a pagan.

Paul

 

[Meinrad]

I just have some questions on my mind… does anyone know if these three missionaries had ever studied Catholicism? Had they gone to a mass before? Did they understand Catholics, or were they brainwashed into thinking we are satanic?

 

[zerinus]

I just have some questions on my mind… does anyone know if these three missionaries had ever studied Catholicism? Had they gone to a mass before? Did they understand Catholics, or were they brainwashed into thinking we are satanic?

Neither. They are neither educated in Catholicism, nor told that Catholicism is Satanic.

zerinus

 

[Meinrad]

So you know these guys personally, or did they say that in a news report? What I mean is, is there somewhere I can read that or is that your opinion?

 

[why_me]

An important facet of Mormonism is the attitude of superiority over other religions. Many Mormons have been taught from birth that other religions are at best ridiculous and at worst satanic. After all, Mormon are taught that Catholics worship statues and perform magical pagan rituals. These misconceptions cause Mormons to dehumanize non-members.

The young “elders” in my mission would often egg each other on to punish non-Mormons for their stupidity and error by engaging in disrespectful conduct. This can range from placing LDS tracts in the hands of Buddhist statues to disrupting Catholic masses or flattening the bicycle tires of competing Protestant missionaries (the Protestants flattened our tires, too).

Paul

None of my mormon friends feel superior at all. In fact, they never give other faiths a second thought. To each his own is the motto. Of course, they would like non-members to convert but no one dehumanize non-members. In fact, mormons are known for their hard work and clean living. And in fact, companies often go to BYU to recruit perspective young employees.

And I might add that young mormon missionaries are known for their clean behavior and looks. It seems to me that you are misleading the lurkers on this thread.

 

[why_me]

That is really ironic, considering the strong influence of Freemasonry on LDS temple rituals. Freemasonry also strongly influenced ceremonial magicians like Aleister Crowley, and it also influenced Gerald Gardner when he was devising the rituals for his invented religion, Wicca. In this, the Mormons have far more in common with modern pagans than they do with any Christian group.

You can listen to the relationship between mormonism and freemasonary on this podcast:

mormonstories.org/?p=14

I think that you may may be surprised…

 

[PaulDupre]

None of my mormon friends feel superior at all. In fact, they never give other faiths a second thought. To each his own is the motto. Of course, they would like non-members to convert but no one dehumanize non-members. In fact, mormons are known for their hard work and clean living. And in fact, companies often go to BYU to recruit perspective young employees.

And I might add that young mormon missionaries are known for their clean behavior and looks. It seems to me that you are misleading the lurkers on this thread.

why me,

Don’t presume to tell me what I experienced on my mission. You are incredibly naive if you think that the majority of 19-20 year-old LDS missionaries are well-behaved all the time.

Paul

 

[why_me]

LOL! LOL! LOL!

How is it persecution to be caught committing petty crimes against the people and property of those who disagree with us?

Well let me put it this way: Three missionaries commit an act. Catholics on this board use it to bash the lds church. Do you get the picture? Let him or her without sin cast the first stone…