Mormon missionaries vandalize and desecrate Catholic Shrine

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J_C said:
whyme has a good point about the youthfulness of these mormon missionarys. theyre’ just kids, they should be allowed some forgiving leeway.

Just kids?? THEY DESTROYED PROPERTY!

I do however begin think there is something built in to mormonasm on race. I have gotten to know a coup;le of mormons here and they are terribly and vocally racist, it doesn’t take but a word or two to get them ranting aobut blacks and mexicans or for that matter chinese.

**Typical WASPs -“White Anglo-Saxon Protestants” **

but what the heck none of us is p;erfect. While we’re p;ointing fingets at the mormons it migh be worthwhile to do a examination of conscience each to ourselves. I know I sure am not clean.
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Well, I don’t destroy the property of others, and there are no teachings in the Catholic Church which could be construed as ‘racist’. There ARE, however, in Mormonism.
 
xulu said:
I joined this because it appeared that everybody was quite nice, and you decide to paint me with a non-Christian brush?
I wasn’t even a member for an hour when you said this.:confused:

I will be the first to say though, there are some who could use a good lesson in what it means to be Christlike in my church, but I think that is true in all churches. You have the good, then the ones who ruin it for everybody.
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Being a follower of Christ in the sense of embracing some of his teachings is one thing (as in Mormonism), but being an active participant in the Body of Christ is a whole other matter. Unfortunately, a Mormon’s understanding of God and of the Church itself is way off base in error. I certainly am not implying that you are ‘unChristian’ by any means. As I said, following some of the teachings of Christ is very noble. But you are entrapped within a system that is far removed from the Gospel, and a group far removed from Christ’s Church, yet attempts to mimic it as much as possible.
 
zerinus said:
Well, according to the Catechism it is:
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Part 2, Section 2, Chapter 1, Article 3, SubSection 5, Heading 2

1367 The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice: “The victim is one and the same: the same now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different.” “And since in this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.”

zerinus

zerinus own post proves him wrong. ONE sacrifice​
 
ibkc said:
Post that quote. With a link, please. It certainly isn’t in the portion of the Catechism you posted earlier this morning.

Post it, or admit that your understanding of the Eucharist is flat-out wrong.
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I have posted it, and it is “in the portion of the Catechism” I posted earlier. It seems a bit silly to post it again. You just want to close your eyes to it.

The Catechism defines Mass as a sacrifice, period. That sacrifice is repeated every time the Mass is offered. That is what the Catechism says; and it is not biblical. Jesus did not institute the Sacrament as a sacrifice; but as a remembrance of His sacrifice. There is a difference between doing something in remembrance of something, and doing it as being the thing itself. If you can’t understand that, then I am afraid I cannot help you.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I have posted it, and it is “in the portion of the Catechism” I posted earlier. It seems a bit silly to post it again. You just want to close your eyes to it.
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No, zerinus. It was ONE sacrifice, nearly 2000 years ago. The Catechism says this plainly.
 
why_me said:
Are catholic priests perfect? Have catholic priests ever made a mistake? And so, if I see a priest living an imperfection should I also claim all bets are off? As one nun explained to me: people should see nuns and priests as human beings too.

I certainly do not want to discuss the imperfections of certain priests. :o
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Catholic priests don’t go around desecrating the sacred places of other denominations. Get real.
 
yes it is a sacrifice. BUT Jesus is sacrificed ONCE for all. That sacrifice is memorialized in the mass and through the sacrament it is made present. it is still ONE sacrifice. the only repeated sacrifices are the ones that WE make, bread, wine, time/talent/treasure (offertory), repentance.

this is all a diversion anyway. what these men did was a desecration. it was wrong. (it is also against colorado law) it was offensive and immoral. it also deserves an apology from these three which, in the case of two of them, is still lacking.
 
ibkc said:
It is a re-presentation of the sacrifice which occurred 2000 years ago. It is not a re-sacrifice of Jesus each time the Mass is said.
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The Catechism says that that is what it is:

The victim [Christ] . . . now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. . . . the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.

The Mass is at the same time . . . the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated *.

They should be encouraged to . . . attend the Sacrifice of the Mass,* . . .

zerinus
 
majick275 said:
yes it is a sacrifice. BUT Jesus is sacrificed ONCE for all. That sacrifice is memorialized in the mass and through the sacrament it is made present. it is still ONE sacrifice. the only repeated sacrifices are the ones that WE make, bread, wine, time/talent/treasure (offertory), repentance.

this is all a diversion anyway. what these men did was a desecration. it was wrong. (it is also against colorado law) it was offensive and immoral. it also deserves an apology from these three which, in the case of two of them, is still lacking.
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People keep asking, “How do you know that the Christian church apostatized?” These are some of the many reasons. As Isaiah has said: “The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant” (Isaiah 24:5).

zerinus
 
peary said:
Catholic priests don’t go around desecrating the sacred places of other denominations. Get real.
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I don’t think that you want me to go there do you? I can have a pretty good comeback if I did.
 
zerinus said:
The Catechism says that that is what it is:

The victim [Christ] . . . now offers through the ministry of priests, who then offered himself on the cross; only the manner of offering is different. . . . the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and offered in an unbloody manner. . . this sacrifice is truly propitiatory.

The Mass is at the same time . . . the sacrificial memorial in which the sacrifice of the cross is perpetuated *.

They should be encouraged to . . . attend the Sacrifice of the Mass,* . . .

zerinus

Again your ignorance is showing.

Main Entry: per·pet·u·ate
Function: transitive verb
Pronunciation: p&r-'pe-ch&-"wAt
Inflected Form(s): -at·ed ; -at·ing
Etymology: Latin perpetuatus, past participle of perpetuare, from perpetuus
: to make perpetual or cause to last indefinitely

Does not mean what you think.
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Originally Posted by why me:
it is not a crime to offer a fake human sacrifice on a catholic alter. It is a stupid and insensitive act however.

You’re KIDDING, right? And the word is ALTAR.
 
which is what the LDs church did and keeps doing.

The sacrifice for sin was integral to the mosaic covenant. Christ fulfilled it LITERALLY when he told us this IS my body, etc. he taught us that unless you eat of his flesh and drink his blood you have no life. that teaching was so hard that many of disciples left.

you still don’t seem to understand what the catechism is saying. your last post of it was VERY specific that Jesus sacrifice is a singular event. the sacramental grace resulting from the priest’s actions transcends space/time to make it present for us. the full section of the catechism elaborates on the other sacrificial elements of the mass quite nicely.

once again…you are dodging the OP. this act of the mormon missionaries is a desecration. it is wrong. it deserves an apology. yet the person who who posted this photos (thus bragging of his deeds) has yet to give us one. where is the mormon call for him to issue one?
 
majick275 said:
I am interested in seeing what whyme has to say about zerinus opinion that the holy mass is a grossly sacrilegious act that is against divine law.
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Zerinus is just like you guys except that he is mormon. As you all whip the lds church, Zerinus whips the catholic church.

I think that the Mass is a beautiful act of devotiion to Christ. I just attended a pre-vatican II Mass (Trindentine) and it was also beautiful. I like the Trindentine Mass better than the more modern Mass.

However, I say: Let Mormons worship as they wish and let catholics worship as they wish. And as far as the shrine is concerned: it was a mistake for these missionaries to act improperly. But such are the imperfections of human beings. In the news, it was reported that a young Finnish tourist on Easter Island was arrested for chopping off a piece of ear of a ancient statue. He was 25 years old. He wanted it as a tourist souvenir. People do stupid things all the time. Such is being human.
 
why_me said:
I don’t think that you want me to go there do you? I can have a pretty good comeback if I did.
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I knew you would ignore the anticatholic attacks here and add some of your own. go ahead, we do not fear truth. give us your comeback with verifiable references.
 
why_me said:
Zerinus is just like you guys except that he is mormon. As you all whip the lds church, Zerinus whips the catholic church.
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which have yet to disapprove of
why_me said:
I think that the Mass is a beautiful act of devotiion to Christ. I just attended a pre-vatican II Mass (Trindentine) and it was also beautiful. I like the Trindentine Mass better than the more modern Mass.
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so you reduce the holiest sacrament to a “devotion”? great… i see you ignoring Zerinus post on what it is.
why_me said:
However, I say: Let Mormons worship as they wish and let catholics worship as they wish. And as far as the shrine is concerned: it was a mistake for these missionaries to act improperly. But such are the imperfections of human beings. In the news, it was reported that a young Finnish tourist on Easter Island was arrested for chopping off a piece of ear of a ancient statue. He was 25 years old. He wanted it as a tourist souvenir. People do stupid things all the time. Such is being human.
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and you not only wave off the act, you refuse to call for them to apologize and you go down the rabit trail with some irrelevant act by a finnish tourist. I’ll bet the Finn wasn’t on easter island as a result of a mission call claimed to be divinely revealed by God nor was he an ordained “elder” in his church on official church business there.

every post you make your true purpose more obvious. (nice touch on the TLM) :rolleyes:
 
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