Mormon missionaries vandalize and desecrate Catholic Shrine

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Elric said:
Would you mind laying off these kind of comments please?

I know that whyme can be a frustrating person to debate (bordering on pointless, I am still waiting for them to post something constructive), but those comments dont really help and are kind of offensive.

Im sorry if you think that I am making a big deal out of it, I just didnt really appreciate it.

Thanks.
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Debating religion and truth can be a pointless endeavor. We will know the complete truth when we die and not before that. The people who have spent soooo much time downing mormonism could use such time more constructively, like sowing love where there is hate. The prayer of saint francis comes to mind and I think it is a beautiful poem to follow in this one life that we all have on this earth:

Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen

There is certainly a lot of darkness out there but this darkness is not found in mormonism but in the nihilism of the current age which is spending a lot time denying god.
 
zerinus said:
If you have followed his posts carefully so far, you will know that he is the one who is sufferring from serious psychological problems.

zerinus
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Was there really any need for that?

There was no reason for such insensitivity at all.
 
why_me said:
The prayer of saint francis comes to mind and I think it is a beautiful poem to follow in this one life that we all have on this earth:

Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen .
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Beautiful, I think I’ve heard parts of it before, not all of it though and I didn’t know its author. Thanks for this post WhyMe:)
 
Elric said:
Really, what manner of person are you?

What purpose did you hope to achieve with those unprovoked remarks?
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It was not unprovoked. If you have read his previous postings, you will know that it was not unprovoked.

zerinus
 
why_me said:
Debating religion and truth can be a pointless endeavor. We will know the complete truth when we die and not before that. The people who have spent soooo much time downing mormonism could use such time more constructively, like sowing love where there is hate. The prayer of saint francis comes to mind and I think it is a beautiful poem to follow in this one life that we all have on this earth:

Prayer of Saint Francis of Assisi
Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.
Where there is hatred, let me sow love;
where there is injury,pardon;
where there is doubt, faith;
where there is despair, hope;
where there is darkness, light;
and where there is sadness, joy.

O Divine Master, grant that I may not so much seek
to be consoled as to console;
to be understood as to understand;
to be loved as to love.
For it is in giving that we receive;
it is in pardoning that we are pardoned;
and it is in dying that we are born to eternal life. Amen

There is certainly a lot of darkness out there but this darkness is not found in mormonism but in the nihilism of the current age which is spending a lot time denying god.
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there is darkness in any religion that uses false prophets to promote false doctrine. the mormon religion proclaims that all other churches are apostate, their creeds an abomination in the sight of God and all their professors corrupt.

We may not KNOW all truth before we die but God has given us quite alot of it and expects us to learn it, live it an proclaim it to the best of our ability. he will spew the lukewarm from his mouth.
read 2 Peter chapter 2
 
Elric said:
Would you mind laying off these kind of comments please?
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I apologize Elric. For the record, I don’t even see Zerinus’ posts, so it wasn’t anything directed at him personally (or anyone). It was more of a general sentiment directed at a large collective who participate here, with a seemingly rotating body of examples, for whom religion seems to bring no peace, nor happiness, only anger and discord.

That aside, I could have kept it to myself. I’ll try to be more circumspect in the future.
 
I shudder at the thought of this being mentioned, it may have been talked about specifically before.
Here is something from the 4th paragraph of the article in the Salt Lake Tribune, here is the link:

sltrib.com/ci_8569202
Two former missionaries, and one whose call has now been terminated, reportedly snapped photos of themselves preaching behind a church altar while waving a Book of Mormon, pretending to sacrifice one another and holding the head of a Mexican saint whom one missionary claimed to have decapitated.
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I didn’t know there was a claim of decapitation… that upsets me greatly.​

On a more pleasant note, I had a very pleasant discussion with a woman at the local Catholic Parish yesterday, but I will post that as a different thread
 
xulu said:
I shudder at the thought of this being mentioned, it may have been talked about specifically before.
Here is something from the 4th paragraph of the article in the Salt Lake Tribune, here is the link:

sltrib.com/ci_8569202

I didn’t know there was a claim of decapitation… that upsets me greatly.​

On a more pleasant note, I had a very pleasant discussion with a woman at the local Catholic Parish yesterday, but I will post that as a different thread
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Maybe they just wanted to sacrifice him! 😃

zerinus
 
xulu said:
I shudder at the thought of this being mentioned, it may have been talked about specifically before.
Here is something from the 4th paragraph of the article in the Salt Lake Tribune, here is the link:

sltrib.com/ci_8569202
Click to expand...
The missionary that was sent home has sent this apology:

To whom it may concern and the community of San Luis, Colorado:
As a result of the recent photos which have surfaced involving me and the Catholic Church, I wish to offer my sincerest apologies. My actions at that day were inexcusable. I realize that my companions and I have made a mockery of that which is most sacred to many of the residents of San Luis and the rest of the world. I should have known better. I want to assure all of you that we meant no harm and surely no animosity toward the Catholic community. I deeply regret my past actions and wish to reconcile the damage that has been done. Again I give you all my deepest apologies.
Sincerely,
Elder R. Thompson

I am sure that he is sincere. Can I ask a question Xulu? It seems to me that you put your faith in people who are members of the lds church. I think that if this were true it would be a mistake. People are imperfect and they will disappoint regardless of the faith that they belong to. You seem to have taken all this about the shrine to the extremes. What do you say about all the priests who have molested boys while wearing the priests’ frock? All faiths have people who diappoint. I can never put my faith in people. I need to put my faith in god. There have been many good catholics who have left the faith because of the actions of a few priests. And that in my opinion is a mistake too.
 
why_me said:
There have been many good catholics who have left the faith because of the actions of a few priests. And that in my opinion is a mistake too.
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i don’t know a single one, not a single Catholic who left the Catholic faith over the priest abuse scandal, and guess what, one of my dear friends son was one of the abused, yet he is as faithful a Catholic as you would want to meet.

whyme you say things as if they were true. i wonder if you have verifiable figures on the number of “good” Catholics who deserted the Church because of this, scandal.

i think not likely, because the numbers are small, unverifiable, and those who “left” almost surely were on the fringes of faith anyway, sort of like the effigy of yourself taht you set up here, as one who believes in “something” but isn’t real claer on what that “something” is. we maintain that no true Christian would desert Christ Jesus because someone, even a periest, had sinned against him. if youdon’t agree with that then your understanding of faith in Jesus must be stunted.

another thing I have noticed about you and zerijnis is that when you are presented with a moroman problem your typeical response is to counterattack rahter than defend. it is as if rather than defend your own faith you would rather tear down the other. could this be why mormoans when they lose their mormon faith usually become atheiosts?
 
why_me said:
The missionary that was sent home has sent this apology:

To whom it may concern and the community of San Luis, Colorado:
As a result of the recent photos which have surfaced involving me and the Catholic Church, I wish to offer my sincerest apologies. My actions at that day were inexcusable. I realize that my companions and I have made a mockery of that which is most sacred to many of the residents of San Luis and the rest of the world. I should have known better. I want to assure all of you that we meant no harm and surely no animosity toward the Catholic community. I deeply regret my past actions and wish to reconcile the damage that has been done. Again I give you all my deepest apologies.
Sincerely,
Elder R. Thompson

I am sure that he is sincere. Can I ask a question Xulu? It seems to me that you put your faith in people who are members of the lds church. I think that if this were true it would be a mistake. People are imperfect and they will disappoint regardless of the faith that they belong to. You seem to have taken all this about the shrine to the extremes. What do you say about all the priests who have molested boys while wearing the priests’ frock? All faiths have people who diappoint. I can never put my faith in people. I need to put my faith in god. There have been many good catholics who have left the faith because of the actions of a few priests. And that in my opinion is a mistake too.
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i can’t see leaving mormonism having anything to do with this incident. what is at issue is that the only one that apologized for it is the one that was on his mission where the MP could make him write that statement. (which still found a way to make this about mormon persecution) where are the other two? where is the apology for posting the photos? this isn’t about the LDS church it’s about those 3 mormons who owe us a sincere apology. it’s also about the mormons who keep making excuses for them and not only refuse to call for them to apologize but some even go so far as to attack the catholic church for this. you saw this on the LDS boards that you post on and you said nothing against it.
 
why_me said:
The missionary that was sent home has sent this apology:
  • To whom it may concern and the community of San Luis, Colorado:
    As a result of the recent photos which have surfaced involving me and the Catholic Church, I wish to offer my sincerest apologies. My actions at that day were inexcusable. I realize that my companions and I have made a mockery of that which is most sacred to many of the residents of San Luis and the rest of the world. I should have known better. I want to assure all of you that we meant no harm and surely no animosity toward the Catholic community. I deeply regret my past actions and wish to reconcile the damage that has been done. Again I give you all my deepest apologies.
    Sincerely,
    Elder R. Thompson*
If he or the other two did physical damage to the shrine, they need to make monetary restitution, in my opinion - not by the LDS, but out of their own pockets. I believe in personal responsibility no matter what the age. :hmmm:
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peary said:
If he or the other two did physical damage to the shrine, they need to make monetary restitution, in my opinion - not by the LDS, but out of their own pockets. I believe in personal responsibility no matter what the age. :hmmm:
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Maybe you should take them to court and charge them first.

zerinus
 
why? if they did cause physical damage and they are sorry why couldn’t it be settled out of court?
 
peary said:
If he or the other two did physical damage to the shrine, they need to make monetary restitution, in my opinion - not by the LDS, but out of their own pockets. I believe in personal responsibility no matter what the age
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Agreed:thumbsup:
 
peary said:
If he or the other two did physical damage to the shrine, they need to make monetary restitution, in my opinion - not by the LDS, but out of their own pockets. I believe in personal responsibility no matter what the age.:hmmm:
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I hope that’s something these men consider also. It’d be perfectly commensurate with the Mormon interpretation of forgiveness/atonement to make amends as far as possible.

I also hope that this experience motivates these individuals to begin an honest inventory of their own personalities, so that they can get to the root of their behavior and cure the underlying causal factors. It’s one thing to spend some money and repair the damage, but it’d be a much greater act to spend some time working to heal the rift, first within themselves, and then in the community.
 
J_C said:
another thing I have noticed about you and zerijnis is that when you are presented with a moroman problem your typeical response is to counterattack rahter than defend. it is as if rather than defend your own faith you would rather tear down the other. could this be why mormoans when they lose their mormon faith usually become atheiosts?
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Today I accompanied the missionaries to teach one of their investigators. They were a lovely young Catholic couple, with two small children. This was their first or second visit. The missionaries did a great job of teaching them, gave them a Book of Mormon, and made an appointment to visit them again. There was a good spirit there, and I was grateful for the experience.

zerinus
 
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