Mormon/Polygamy question

[Cowbell76]

JC,

As an answer to your question - I am both. My grandfather joined the church when my father was born in 1950. My grandmother was a “cradle Mormon” as her ancestry goes back to the restoration of the church. My father has stayed active his whole life and has taught me in the Mormon church. I was born into Mormonism and continue to be active.

I too had to be converted however to the truthfulness of the gospel. I was asked at about age 19 how I knew the church was true. I couldn’t give a straight answer. I knew in my heart that I had not yet been converted to the gospel of Jesus Christ. I took it upon myself to take “Moroni’s challenge” to discover it’s truthfulness. THe challenge can be read here - scriptures.lds.org/en/moro/10 I have done so and have recieved an answer in the affirmative.

My testimony of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is on a solid foundation. I have yet to see or read or hear anything that will sway me from this testimony. There is no doubt in my mind that a restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ has been restored.

If you have any other questions I am happy to entertain them.

shurewood2002@yahoo.com Warning I will NOT bible bash. I am not here to push my religion onto anyone. I will simply answer a question to the best of my knowlege. I have a few questions of my own.

 

[DLC]

The Jesus of the Mormon religion is not the Jesus of the Bible. the Jesus in the Bible is the one and only true God who created all things, John 1:1-4. Jesus even claimed to be God, John 10:28-33.Then in John 14:1-12 Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. Jesus replied that “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.” This is a clear reference to Jesus being God.
Then in Isaiah 44:8; 45:5 God says that there is no other God apart from Him. God did not say that “there is no God like Him.” But He said this “I am the Lord there is none else.” Is. 45:18. Then if we look at Hebrews chapeter 1:1-8 we read that in the past God spoke to us through the prophets (today there are no real prophets because we have Jesus and the Word of God.). But in these last days He has spoke to us through His Son whom God calls God. Now if God says that there is no God but Him in Isaiah 45:18 then God says that His Son, Jesus, is God, is God contradicting Himself? Absolutely not. Jesus and God the Father are the same God other wise God would be a liar and Jesus would be a false god.
The Mormon jesus is a man who became a god. The Jesus of the Bible is eternal God.
Now in John 3:13 Jesus says that “no man hath ascended up to, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man who is in heaven.” Now how can Jesus be both in heaven and on earth at the same time if Jesus is not omnipresent God of eternity? Jesus is the ladder or access between heaven and earth. Jesus also was in heaven before the Incarnation, and therfore knows the divine mystries. This is not a refernce to us being spirit children in heaven before we came to earth. There is Biblical support for such a fanciful ideal.

 

[MomblessedX3]

The Jesus of the Mormon religion is not the Jesus of the Bible. the Jesus in the Bible is the one and only true God who created all things, John 1:1-4. Jesus even claimed to be God, John 10:28-33.Then in John 14:1-12 Philip asks Jesus to show them the Father. Jesus replied that “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father.” This is a clear reference to Jesus being God.
Then in Isaiah 44:8; 45:5 God says that there is no other God apart from Him. God did not say that “there is no God like Him.” But He said this “I am the Lord there is none else.” Is. 45:18. Then if we look at Hebrews chapeter 1:1-8 we read that in the past God spoke to us through the prophets (today there are no real prophets because we have Jesus and the Word of God.). But in these last days He has spoke to us through His Son whom God calls God. Now if God says that there is no God but Him in Isaiah 45:18 then God says that His Son, Jesus, is God, is God contradicting Himself? Absolutely not. Jesus and God the Father are the same God other wise God would be a liar and Jesus would be a false god.
The Mormon jesus is a man who became a god. The Jesus of the Bible is eternal God.
QUOTE]

My Husband and I discuss this topic very frequently. His response to me when I say that there is and has been ONLY ONE GOD! is that there is only one God* with whom we have to do*. There is only one God of Earth , but many mormons who are gods of different worlds. I believe that God always has been and always will be.

 

[J_C]

JC,

As an answer to your question - I am both. My grandfather joined the church when my father was born in 1950. My grandmother was a “cradle Mormon” as her ancestry goes back to the restoration of the church. My father has stayed active his whole life and has taught me in the Mormon church. I was born into Mormonism and continue to be active.

shurewood2002@yahoo.com Warning I will NOT bible bash. I am not here to push my religion onto anyone. I will simply answer a question to the best of my knowlege. I have a few questions of my own.

thanks, Cowbell, for your testimony. i appreciate your not proseletyzing, as some are wont to do.

I have been a Christian since I was about 25 y/o, first a protestant and then after a few years I joined the Catholic Church because of an inner conviction, both intellectual and spirittual, that the Catholic claims are the most believable. at the time I entered the Catholic Church I was not yet able to grasp many of the beliefs; these took time in prayer and study.

recently I encountered a mormon conversion within a family that is close to me, and this got me wondering abou t this religion which previously I had had no thought about. That is why I am so focused on the mormon threads here, as a means to learn about it, because frankly, I strongly believe that any religion which diverts souls away from the Catholic Church is a danger. As I have learned about the specifics of mormon beliefs and practices, I have grown more convinced that while it teaches a type of Christian morality, and many of its adherents are very nice people, it is nevertheless out of communion with the Chruch that Jesus established, and therefore suffering in serious doctrinal error.

yet I have nothing against the momron religion, except for this fact, that it diverts people away from the fullness of worship by means of distorting Bible interpretations, which of coursse it shares with every other religion that is separatedd from the Catholic.

again welcome I look forward to your posts.
May God bless us in our studies.

 

[DLC]

with whom we have to do

. There is only one God of Earth , but many mormons who are gods of different worlds. I believe that God always has been and always will be.

The problem with this comment is that your husbands made is the no where is it found in the Bible. God says that He knows of no other God.Isaiah 43:10-11;44:8.

Also, here is what is said God says in Is. 44:6 “I am the first, and Iam the last, and beside me there is no God.”

Q. Now if God Is the “first” and God is the “last” how many Gods are there? One.

 

[MomblessedX3]

The problem with this comment is that your husbands made is the no where is it found in the Bible. God says that He knows of no other God.Isaiah 43:10-11;44:8.

Also, here is what is said God says in Is. 44:6 “I am the first, and Iam the last, and beside me there is no God.”

Q. Now if God Is the “first” and God is the “last” how many Gods are there? One.

I agree!

 

[FCEGM]

My Husband and I discuss this topic very frequently. His response to me when I say that there is and has been ONLY ONE GOD! is that there is only one God* with whom we have to do*. There is only one God of Earth , but many mormons who are gods of different worlds. I believe that God always has been and always will be.

Momblessed, you and your husband might find this respectful debate of interest:

surprisedbytruth.com/shop/shopexd.asp?bc=no&id=108

 

[MomblessedX3]

Momblessed, you and your husband might find this respectful debate of interest:

surprisedbytruth.com/shop/shopexd.asp?bc=no&id=108

Thanks I will definitely check this out,

 

[DLC]

Ask your husband to be honest and answer this question.
Q. Now if God Is the “first” and God is the “last” how many Gods are there?

 

[Cowbell76]

I see once again that I must clear up doctrnial issues that are being posted.

1. The Jesus of Mormon religion and Jesus of the bible are different. False. The God of Catholosism and the God of mormonism are different True. Here is how I mean:

The bible has been translated through many languages. We also only have a bible from the mouth of the Jews. A race of people that so hated our lord that they hung him on a cross to die.That being said please take it into account when you study. Second - the trinity of the catholic faith comes from the Niacian creed in 365 AD when 365 bishops and cardinals etc. could not agree on whether God was a trinity being or 3 individual members of a godhead. On their own account and without bringing the matter before the lord they chose that he is a trinity. Wo unto those that place their trust in the arm of flesh. Joseph Smith saw God the father and Jesus Christ as two individual people with the holy ghost encompassing the situation. This is testimony enough of gods physical likeness.

I also see that there are posts about Mormons being gods. First off this is false. There is not a single mormon on the planet that is a god. However, we ALL have the chance to become LIke God and eventually have universes of our own AFTER the resurrection, the judgment and the assignment to the kingdoms. Celestial, Terrestrial and Tellestial see here for scriptural reference - scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/15/40#40 Only those that recieve the highest degree of the celestial kingdom may become gods. And this after the Lords work is finished for this earth.

I ask that if any of this is question to yourself to take the matter up with the lord in prayer. This is the only way. Please study and ponder the issue in your heart prior to inquiry and prayer with the Lord. This will insure a correct answer in your heart.

 

[ibkc]

I see once again that I must clear up doctrnial issues that are being posted.

Well, all I have to say is, thank goodness you’re here to set everyone straight!

1. The Jesus of Mormon religion and Jesus of the bible are different. False. The God of Catholosism and the God of mormonism are different True.

You cannot have it both ways. Either the Trinity is true or it is not. Jesus IS God for us. If He is not God to you, then we are thinking of two different Jesuses. I understand that JS and cohorts were thinking of the same Jesus Christ when they invented the LDS church. He and they were either in serious error, or they were deliberately deceitful.

The bible has been translated through many languages.

And what are you trying to say here? We do have copies of the various books of the Bible in their original languages.

We also only have a bible from the mouth of the Jews. A race of people that so hated our lord that they hung him on a cross to die.

This leaves me speechless. First of all, it’s not clear what you’re trying to say - are you trying to say the Bible can’t be trusted because it was written by Jews?

That being said please take it into account when you study.

I should take what into account when I study - that the Bible was written by Jews? Why exactly?

Second - the trinity of the catholic faith comes from the Niacian creed in 365 AD

The First Council of Nicea was held in 325.

when 365 bishops and cardinals etc. could not agree on whether God was a trinity being or 3 individual members of a godhead.

Actually, the number of attendees was probably closer to 300 - 320. All but two or three (sources seem to vary on this) ruled against the heresy of Arianism, and agreed on the creed. The ideas expressed in the creed were not invented at the council. They were simply made into official doctrine there.

On their own account and without bringing the matter before the lord they chose that he is a trinity.

And you know that they did this “without bringing the matter before the lord”? Were you there?

Wo unto those that place their trust in the arm of flesh. Joseph Smith saw God the father and Jesus Christ as two individual people with the holy ghost encompassing the situation. This is testimony enough of gods physical likeness.

What makes Joseph Smith’s testimony more valid than two thousand years of tradition?

I also see that there are posts about Mormons being gods. First off this is false. There is not a single mormon on the planet that is a god.

That much is obvious. When did anyone say that living Mormons are gods?

However, we ALL have the chance to become LIke God and eventually have universes of our own AFTER the resurrection, the judgment and the assignment to the kingdoms. Celestial, Terrestrial and Tellestial see here for scriptural reference - scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/15/40#40 Only those that recieve the highest degree of the celestial kingdom may become gods. And this after the Lords work is finished for this earth.

If you believe this, great for you.

I ask that if any of this is question to yourself to take the matter up with the lord in prayer. This is the only way. Please study and ponder the issue in your heart prior to inquiry and prayer with the Lord. This will insure a correct answer in your heart.

My years of prayer and inquiry have led me straight into the arms of the Catholic Church. That is indeed the correct answer, not only in my heart, but it is the will of God too.

 

[DLC]

Your answe is evading my question. I will ask again it later. For now I will deal with the Bible.
It very easy to look at the Bibles that we have today and it is easy to show that they correspond exactly with the printed Bibles of the sixteenth century or the time printing was invented.

From these we can go back through the English and Latin versions until we reach to the great manuscripts of the fourth century as represented by three outstanding codices known as the Codex Vaticanus (in Rome), the Codex Sinaiticus (in Petrograd), and the Codex Alexandrinus (in the British Museum). They are exactly the same.

Then we can go back still furhter and compare the use of Scripture in the writings of the Chruch Fathers of the thrid century, and from these work back to second century when versions in several languages are found. They are exactly the same.

From this it is but a very short step in time to the apostles and the actual compositions of the New Testament writings. There is NO reasonable doubt that we possess today what has ALWAYS been regarded as the Scriptures of the Christian Church.

There are no errors in the Bible. If so where?

Now to my previous question.
If God said “I am the first and I am the Last and besides me there is no God,” Isaiah 44:6, how many Gods are there?

If your Jesus is not the Jesus of the Bible and is not the very one and only true God then your savior is not able to save you. Only the one and only true God, Jesus, of the Bible has the qualifications to save us because He was sinless. Look at these verses. Only the one true God is sinless.
2 Cor 5:21
21 He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
NASU

Heb 4:14-15

14 Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.
NASU

 

[J_C]

Joseph Smith saw God the father and Jesus Christ as two individual people with the holy ghost encompassing the situation. This is testimony enough of gods physical likeness.

good morning, cowbell.

I don’t want to bombard you, as I see others far more capable than I have already posted excellent responses for you to consider.

but I have a question about this statement, which I quited above.

I have been doing some reading about the momron religion, and one thing that I have learned is that there are several versions of Joseph’s “first vision”. according to one report given by Joseph himself, the first vision did not involve the two personages you describe, for instance. I assume that you are aware of these varying descriptions of the first vision.

I wonder if, when you get time, you could lay out your means of resolving these varying reports by Joseph of the first vision.

thank you.

 

[zerinus]

As I have learned about the specifics of mormon beliefs and practices, I have grown more convinced that while it teaches a type of Christian morality, and many of its adherents are very nice people, it is nevertheless out of communion with the Chruch that Jesus established, and therefore suffering in serious doctrinal error.

Mormonism is the true Church that Jesus has established. It is the Catholic Church that is “out of communion” with it.

zerinus

 

[Filius99993]

How about this:

If polygamy is a sin in God’s eyes, don’t do it.
If polygamy isn’t a sin, you aren’t committing a sin by not committing polygamy. And it’ll make your spouse much happier, because you won’t be sleeping with someone else.

 

[Filius99993]

Mormonism is the true Church that Jesus has established. It is the Catholic Church that is “out of communion” with it.

zerinus

How do you know? Have you had any apparitions from God recently? Was Peter the head of your Church?

 

[DLC]

Mormonism is the true Church that Jesus has established. It is the Catholic Church that is “out of communion” with it.

zerinus

How can the Mormon church be the true church when its savior, Jesus Christ, is not the Christ of the Bible and can’t save anyone. If Jesus is not the only true and living God then He is a demigod.

 

[allmhuran]

In theory, polygamy is a lucrative economic system. History bears this out. Underneath it all it seems that the accumulation of wealth is what drives it. The structure is top down collectivist, with elitist patriarch’s in charge. The religious aspect appears to be nothing more than a contrivance to veil the true purpose behind it. And for those who believe it’s not widely practised anymore, just visit a few supermarkes in Salt Lake City and observe the amount of groceries being purchased on any given day by some people …

 

[Mapi]

I see once again that I must clear up doctrnial issues that are being posted.

1. The Jesus of Mormon religion and Jesus of the bible are different. False. The God of Catholosism and the God of mormonism are different True. Here is how I mean:

The bible has been translated through many languages. We also only have a bible from the mouth of the Jews. A race of people that so hated our lord that they hung him on a cross to die.That being said please take it into account when you study. Second - the trinity of the catholic faith comes from the Niacian creed in 365 AD when 365 bishops and cardinals etc. could not agree on whether God was a trinity being or 3 individual members of a godhead. On their own account and without bringing the matter before the lord they chose that he is a trinity. Wo unto those that place their trust in the arm of flesh. Joseph Smith saw God the father and Jesus Christ as two individual people with the holy ghost encompassing the situation. This is testimony enough of gods physical likeness.

I also see that there are posts about Mormons being gods. First off this is false. There is not a single mormon on the planet that is a god. However, we ALL have the chance to become LIke God and eventually have universes of our own AFTER the resurrection, the judgment and the assignment to the kingdoms. Celestial, Terrestrial and Tellestial see here for scriptural reference - scriptures.lds.org/en/1_cor/15/40#40 Only those that recieve the highest degree of the celestial kingdom may become gods. And this after the Lords work is finished for this earth.

I ask that if any of this is question to yourself to take the matter up with the lord in prayer. This is the only way. Please study and ponder the issue in your heart prior to inquiry and prayer with the Lord. This will insure a correct answer in your heart.

This is what Brigham Young had to say about the first vision:

On February 18, 1855 this is what Brigham Young had to say about the first vision:

The messenger did not come to an eminent divine. The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven, but He did send His angel to this obscure person, Joseph Smith Jr. who afterwards become a prophet, seer, and revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religion sects of the day. Journal of Discourses, vol 2 page 171

 

[DLC]

This is what Brigham Young had to say about the first vision:

On February 18, 1855 this is what Brigham Young had to say about the first vision:

The messenger did not come to an eminent divine. The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven, but He did send His angel to this obscure person, Joseph Smith Jr. who afterwards become a prophet, seer, and revelator, and informed him that he should not join any of the religion sects of the day. Journal of Discourses, vol 2 page 171

Hebrews 1:1-8 says that we do not need prophets today because we have Jesus. So right from the start there is concern regarding Smith being a prophet. Heb 1:1-9
God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2 in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.
5 For to which of the angels did He ever say,“YOU ARE MY SON,
TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”?And again," I WILL BE A FATHER TO HIMAND HE SHALL BE A SON TO ME"? 6 And when He again brings the firstborn into the world, He says,“AND LET ALL THE ANGELS OF GOD WORSHIP HIM.”
7 And of the angels He says,“WHO MAKES HIS ANGELS WINDS,AND HIS MINISTERS A FLAME OF FIRE.”
8* But of the Son He says"YOUR THRONE, O GOD, IS FOREVER AND EVER,AND THE RIGHTEOUS SCEPTER IS THE SCEPTER OF HIS KINGDOM**.* NSAB

Also, Smith could not have seen God The Father because no one has ever seen Him because He is a Spirit. Jesus declares who the Father is because Jesus is the visible image of the invisible God.

John 1:18
18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.
NASU
John 4:24-25
24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
NASU

John 14:8-9
8 Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?
NASU

Right from the start Smith’s vision was wrong.