Mormon Religion

[dianaiad]

He completed the degree, withholding it is nothing but being vindictive.

Rebecca, he had not quite completed the degree. That’s why he didn’t HAVE it yet. Now I’m sure that you wouldn’t have a problem with a university withholding a degree from someone who had plagiarized his final thesis, or who had broken a signed contract regarding a grant.–or, in the case of a private university, had broken the rules in any other fashion.

This man knew the rules. He could have attended a different university. HE chose to attend BYU. He chose to agree to the honor code. It is not ‘vindictive’ to enforce that code. Quite the contrary; what do you call someone who insists that he be treated differently from others who also break their promises, just because…he got famous or something?

 

[dianaiad]

ParkerD, I know more than one person who were expelled by BYU. Kicked out of the school yes, the honor code says nothing of withholding a degree. Why withhold it? He’s done there. Will not be back. There is NO reason to withhold a persons degree. NONE. What are they going to do, revoke the degree of any person who has graduated and is excommunicated? It’s ridiculous.

Rebecca, he broke the rules of the school/ If his timing was so bad that he couldn’t wait to do it until after he was no longer bound by them, then that’s him being stupid, not BYU being vindictive.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Rebecca, he had not quite completed the degree. That’s why he didn’t HAVE it yet. Now I’m sure that you wouldn’t have a problem with a university withholding a degree from someone who had plagiarized his final thesis, or who had broken a signed contract regarding a grant.–or, in the case of a private university, had broken the rules in any other fashion.

This man knew the rules. He could have attended a different university. HE chose to attend BYU. He chose to agree to the honor code. It is not ‘vindictive’ to enforce that code. Quite the contrary; what do you call someone who insists that he be treated differently from others who also break their promises, just because…he got famous or something?

Not really a comparison as BYU has instructed Hardy to become a mormon again, and then they’ll give him his diploma.

At any rate, if Hardy continues his path of taking this to court, we’ll see.

 

[dianaiad]

And you prove my point, again. A Mormon thinker trying to teach Catholicism. You are funny.

I’m not attempting to teach it, Stephen.

…unless you didn’t know about it yourself?

In fact, do please educate me. I am very willing to learn something new. In fact, I didn’t know about latae sententaie excommunication until a week or so ago. It was an enlightening concept–and one that is very logical, given the Catholic view of baptism.

But I’ll tell you what; you tell me what part of that concept I have wrong, correct me, and when we both agree that we are talking about the same thing, THEN we can discuss it. What part of this have I got wrong?

 

[Stephen168]

I’m not attempting to teach it, Stephen.

Oh, I think you are and it can’t be done with Mormon thinking.

I am very willing to learn something new.

really?

…unless you didn’t know about it yourself?

In fact, do please educate me.

No, I don’t think you really want to understand.

 

[Stephen168]

But I’ll tell you what; you tell me what part of that concept I have wrong, correct me, and when we both agree that we are talking about the same thing, THEN we can discuss it. What part of this have I got wrong?

Just in case you really want to understand, go to the wikipedia page on Latae sententiae. There is something common in all the things which will cause a person to incur excommunication latae sententiae. I believe a Catholic could find it and a Mormon might never find it.

 

[twopekinguys]

He was an on-line student at the time. The BYU honor code does not apply to on-line students. He completed his coursework in June, and was ex’d in July.

Just more inconsisitencies.

All reports say he finished the coursework, and was waiting for the diploma at graduation.

So yes, he completed his degree.

They are just being petty, holding the diploma, and waiting for him to come back to being a mormon. One article he is quoted as saying he went inactive in 2002, well before any of this happened.

I still don’t know what commandment he broke. As far as that goes, exactly what section of the “honor code” did he break?

Why weren’t the shirtless boys disciplined? Yet another inconsistency.

 

[zaffiroborant]

If he had graduated, he would already be in posession of his degree. Since BYU had not awarded his degree at the time he screwed up, and he was still a student bound by the contract of conduct that he agreed to, BYU was well within its rights to refuse to award that degree.

Rights that, by the way, are exercised very similarly by Catholic and other religious (and non-religious) universities all over the world.

Not really a comparison as BYU has instructed Hardy to become a mormon again, and then they’ll give him his diploma.

At any rate, if Hardy continues his path of taking this to court, we’ll see.

Are there any other universities religious or non-religious that after a student commits an honor code violation so serious that a diploma/degree is denied, will turn around and give it to you for joining a specific church?

Just a note this is from the 1983 code of canon law, it seemed related

Privation of the power of orders is not possible but only a prohibition against exercising it or some of its acts; likewise, privation of academic degrees is not possible.

 

[why_me]

I still don’t know what commandment he broke. As far as that goes, exactly what section of the “honor code” did he break?

Why weren’t the shirtless boys disciplined? Yet another inconsistency.

If you are refering to the Elder calander he broke the honor code by portraying young men who were former missiionaries in lude poses. Now I do think that it would have been fine to make such a calender. However, since his selling gimmick was an ‘Elder’ calender, he was censored for honor code violations.

 

[why_me]

Are there any other universities religious or non-religious that after a student commits an honor code violation so serious that a diploma/degree is denied, will turn around and give it to you for joining a specific church?

Just a note this is from the 1983 code of canon law, it seemed related

Maybe not, but there should be, especially if it is a religious funded institution. It would be wonderful if catholic men and women attending catholic universities and colleges would be required to live by an honor code. I see nothing wrong in that since by attending that university, you represent that religion.

 

[Xavierlives]

If you are refering to the Elder calander he broke the honor code by portraying young men who were former missiionaries in lude poses. Now I do think that it would have been fine to make such a calender. However, since his selling gimmick was an ‘Elder’ calender, he was censored for honor code violations.

Lewd? I heard they were topless, which implies wearing pants. I didn’t want to do it, but maybe I should look… Nah, I won’t look! You can’t make me!

Surely they are just flexing their Mormon muscles and being all manly. But, the Mormon body is not one to be admired, obviously.

 

[dianaiad]

Lewd? I heard they were topless, which implies wearing pants. I didn’t want to do it, but maybe I should look… Nah, I won’t look! You can’t make me!

Surely they are just flexing their Mormon muscles and being all manly. But, the Mormon body is not one to be admired, obviously.

Ok. Let’s try this: let’s have a calendar of young, attractive novice nuns, entitled 'Sisters on the beaches" and put 'em all in bikinis.

Think about it.

 

[twopekinguys]

Ok. Let’s try this: let’s have a calendar of young, attractive novice nuns, entitled 'Sisters on the beaches" and put 'em all in bikinis.

Think about it.

But they were “former” missionaries, so former nuns, I wouldn’t have a problem with.

Apples to apples.

 

[Xavierlives]

Ok. Let’s try this: let’s have a calendar of young, attractive novice nuns, entitled 'Sisters on the beaches" and put 'em all in bikinis.

Think about it.

It doesn’t work when you use an oxymorons in your argument.

Just kidding! I’m… err… sure there are attractive nuns.

Really, the only nuns I knew were judges in the Debate Circuit, but I wouldn’t expect to see them in a bikini calendar.

**

 

[Stephen168]

Ok. Let’s try this: let’s have a calendar of young, attractive novice nuns, entitled 'Sisters on the beaches" and put 'em all in bikinis.

Think about it.

I’ve thought about it. I’ve decided what I bolded in your statement is very sexist, but other than that; I don’t understand why anyone would be excommunicated.

 

[Xavierlives]

I’ve thought about it. I’ve decided what I bolded in your statement is very sexist, but other than that; I don’t understand why anyone would be excommunicated.

Are there male nuns?

 

[Stephen168]

Are there male nuns?

No

 

[twopekinguys]

I’ve thought about it. I’ve decided what I bolded in your statement is very sexist, but other than that; I don’t understand why anyone would be excommunicated.

I’ve asked the question, and no one has given an answer.

Parker eluded to the commandments, but I can’t find the one that says you shouldn’t go shirtless. I haven’t found one that says to not make a living.

Then we heard something about the BYU “honor code”, but no one can say what portion of that he violated. Which from what I understand doesn’t apply to on-line students anyway.

What is odd about the whole thing is. The guy that makes the calendar gets ex-d, but the guys who posed (of their own free will) don’t get ex-d.

If they are/were good upstanding returned missionaries, I am sure the poses weren’t lewd. If they were, the calendars wouldn’t be sold to the general public without an adult content warning.

I just found where now he is marketing a Mormon Muffin Calendar. Here are some quotes from their site. (Bolding mine)

“the debut 2010 edition features twelve beautiful Mormon mothers posing in kitschy vintage pin-up style.”

and

“Shot in a centerfold format with oversized imagery, the calendar features the ladies’ favorite muffin recipes with a portion of the proceeds going to Breast Cancer research.”

Sounds pretty evil to me.

 

[twopekinguys]

Are there male nuns?

No, but there are “Brothers” in several orders.

Sisters and Brothers are commonly referred to as “Religous”.

Cardinals, Bishops, Priests and Deacons, etc. are referred to as clergy.

Lay people are those of us that are not ordained, or consecrated to a religous life in a convent or monastery.

 

[RebeccaJ]

If they are/were good upstanding returned missionaries, I am sure the poses weren’t lewd. If they were, the calendars wouldn’t be sold to the general public without an adult content warning.

Yeah, there is a 2010 calendar, obviously made long after Hardy was excommunicated.

I just found where now he is marketing a Mormon Muffin Calendar. Here are some quotes from their site. (Bolding mine)

“the debut 2010 edition features twelve beautiful Mormon mothers posing in kitschy vintage pin-up style.”

and

“Shot in a centerfold format with oversized imagery, the calendar features the ladies’ favorite muffin recipes with a portion of the proceeds going to Breast Cancer research.”

Sounds pretty evil to me.

Well, at least it isn’t cupcakes.