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twopekinguys
Guest
Is there a question in all of this, or are you just proseltyzing?
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MormonHero
Guest
It’s an interesting website, and might provide some insight on why Mormons believe what they believe.
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twopekinguys
Guest
So then it is just proseltyzing. That’s a no no
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scipio337
Guest
Ironic, given the “September Six” and academic freedom issues at BYU.
“Mormons are encouraged to study and learn”, just so long as they don’t discover anything contrary to LDS history or doctrine, or question LDS history, doctrine, or leadership.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Six
“Mormons are encouraged to study and learn”, just so long as they don’t discover anything contrary to LDS history or doctrine, or question LDS history, doctrine, or leadership.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/September_Six
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TikiTokiguy
Guest
That’s one of things that makes me hesitate to leave the church, they do value education.
So I ask - with so much emphasis on education, surely that is another fact that this is the true church. But, I’ve found, and it has made me sad and confused and disappointed, that even well educated people, people with Ph D’s and MBA and Master degrees, can not only be wrong, but very wrong, and even get crazy and extremely sinful. I know because I’ve come to know people in the LDS church like this. It’s broken my heart. Perhaps if they would just be honest about the church - it’s for men to be gods with lots of women under them, and for women to eternally make babies. I’m not that familiar with Islam but they don’t really hide what they believe do they? With them you know what you get. Not so with LDS.
So I ask - with so much emphasis on education, surely that is another fact that this is the true church. But, I’ve found, and it has made me sad and confused and disappointed, that even well educated people, people with Ph D’s and MBA and Master degrees, can not only be wrong, but very wrong, and even get crazy and extremely sinful. I know because I’ve come to know people in the LDS church like this. It’s broken my heart. Perhaps if they would just be honest about the church - it’s for men to be gods with lots of women under them, and for women to eternally make babies. I’m not that familiar with Islam but they don’t really hide what they believe do they? With them you know what you get. Not so with LDS.
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MormonHero
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In other words, it’s the patriarchal structure of Mormonism that rubs you the wrong way?
Stephen168
New member
The September Six story rules out the Mormon Church’s desire for scholarship; also makes you wonder what they mean by education.
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TikiTokiguy
Guest
I believe in freedom for all, not caste systems or mini caste systems with women under my control. If I had a daughter I would not want her in something like that. There’s nothing wrong with a strong man/husband who leads the household, but the LDS beliefs are so much in favor of men. If God came down today and said to all men - “There is a shortage of men in the world for good women. Those good women want husbands. So there will be polygamy so those wonderful women can have a husband in their lives.” If God said that, sure I would do that. But God did not tell Joseph Smith that. He did it out of lust and only lust.
You can get kicked out of the church for viewing pornography. What’s the difference between viewing XXX movies and what LDS believe in the next life? One uses religion to hide behind, the other is just plain in your face. I’m not arguing for pornography, I’m just saying, with LDS, at least in the beginning, it was about lust.
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lax16
Guest
Regarding Mormons and education - I live in Utah and know that most Mormon women are married before graduating from college (several that I know dropped out), most Mormon women are married before 22 years of age, they average at least 3 children, and with the exception of one that I know, do not pursue a masters degree or higher.
With all of the responsibilities of raising a large family and many church activities, I am not sure that it would even be possible for a woman to pursue her education outside of the first few years.
Are you including the Arts, beauty school, and working on one’s AA degree until marriage part of the pursuit of education? These are all wonderful accomplishments, but do not fall under the category of scholarly and educated.
I agree, this thread is pure Mormon propaganda!
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MormonHero
Guest
How do Mormons explain the Adam and Eve story of monogamy?
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CatholicGuyNY
Guest
This thread doesn’t seem to have a topic or purpose, when really we should be discussing doctrinal issues. Mormons believe what they do for practically the same reasons that other people believe what they do. It is no surprise that there are “scholars” that are Mormon, just like how there are “scholars” that are Catholic, Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, etc. If anything, advertising Mormon Scholars Testify can be seen as proselytizing, so we’ll let the mods decide.
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soren1
Guest
Oh, I think there is a point to be made here. One of the most common prejudices against Mormonism is that Mormons are stupid. A lot of people believe that the only reason a person could believe in Joseph Smith is because of ignorance. For a lot of people, the accusation of stupidity constitutes their entire grounds for critiquing Mormonism. Mormons who do apologetics are greeted by this attitude more often than they would like or deserve. In fact, the book I mentioned on the other thread, Shaken Faith Syndrome, has a whole chapter on that subject alone. And he’s not wasting ink - it is a real prejudice that needs a response.
One fallacious point that the authors of that book and this website want to drive home, however, is not just that Mormons are indeed educated, but that Mormons tends to be involved in their Church at higher rates corresponding to higher levels of education, whereas in other Churches education tends to corresponds to lowered belief and lower involvement. This suggests that Mormonism is probably more intellectually robust than other religions.
The problem with this of course is that it takes “education” simply without considering what kind of education, and more importantly what philosophy of education. If you are educated in modern America - like it or not - you are going to get indoctrinated with a materialist worldview that stresses materialist and utilitarian values. That worldview is destructive to Catholicism, but not to Mormonism, which already reflects the Enlightenment principles that have brought academia into opposition with Christianity. For instance, if a physics professor teaches his class that empirical studies demonstrate that only material causes account for existence, that God’s existence cannot be known from observation of the universe but is only a faith claim, that the Bible is a poor source of knowledge because it contains many corruptions and errors, and that nothing, including God, can be said to exist if it is not comprehensible to reason, he will challenge the beliefs of all his Catholic students, but not his Mormon ones. They have already been taught these things as Church doctrine.
That last paragraph might sound cynical, but I think it is true. I am not saying it because I feel threatened by LDS scholarship - I read LDS scholarship and am not threatened by it - I say it because I have actually encountered a lot of post-modern thinking among Mormon scholars themselves, even their apologists.
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soren1
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It should also be noted that Mormon scholars have made significant contributions to religious studies. For instance, BYU rivals Notre Dame as the top institution in the country for study of the Dead Sea Scrolls and Old Testament Pseudepigrapha. One of the most clever articles I have ever read about 2 Maccabees was written by a BYU grad who is now studying at Oxford.
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SalesianSDB
Guest
Well, the LDS church no longer teaches polygamy. It was done away with a while back. But if you bring up this case of monogamy, how about Jacob? He had two wives.
Exodus 21:10 sanctions polygamy. Solomon had 700 wives and 300 concubines.
So yes, while Adam and Eve might have been monogamous, there are many examples in the Bible of polygamy.
And to Mormonism, the reason why polygamy was allowed was because it came to the prophet Joseph Smith by revelation from God. According to the LDS church, polygamy was allowed because God told them to allow it.
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Abba
Guest
Yes, there is too much of this going on around here. The nerves to come to a Catholic website to promote their sect.
I must say - I take it serious.
I have witnessed the damage the Mormon sect has done in South America and the Caribbean. They have a very well planned agenda to promote their sect. They study the population of the towns, determine which population is most isolated from the Catholic Church; usually in the country side which have become populated, identify possible converts, etc., etc. Then they build chapels. They are building a chapel per day.
I have the privilege to be currently working for a laity organization that will assist the Catholic Church to build chapels where needed.
Again, this is no joke to me. It hurts me to see the front yard of their temples with 30 or so children playing. They do this intentionally to show the communities that they have people. It hurts me deeply to know that the grand parents of these children were and are pious Catholics. Catholics that back in the days would walk from their country side about an hour each way to go to Mass on Sundays. To see the their grand children members of a sect and deprived of the sacrament is devastating.
The problem is that the country side have become populated with many people which include, children, the youth, the sick and elderly and they are mostly poor and cannot afford the transportation to go to town to attend Sunday Mass. The Mormon sect detects these weakness and attacks the christians who are not well catechized, the weak of conscious etc… They make a lot of promise and introduce their sect slowly as if it was christian. They are not christians they are josephians.
LET’S BUILD CHAPELS!!!
Peace,
Abba
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MormonHero
Guest
Are you certain about your argument that Mormon doctrines are completely in sync with Enlightenment materialism? For instance, doesn’t LDS hold to the existence of spirit beings in pre-mortal existence?
But, more to the point, I can see Christians in general arguing that God’s existence cannot be known simply from the observation of the universe; but to say that God cannot be said to exist at all if God is not comprehensible via reason and materialism, seems to be not only non-Christian in general, but non-Mormon specifically.
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soren1
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Yes, it’s a Catholic website, but it is a section devoted to dialogue with non-Catholic religions. How can you maintain such dialogue if your attitude towards those others religions is to tell them to just go home? People who come here know that they are going to read the opinions and arguments of other people from other religions. That is the purpose of the site, so it is appropriate. I have promoted Catholicism at appropriate LDS websites before, and it always rubs me wrong when someone there says something like this. I don’t thinks Mormons will feel any differently when we do the same thing.
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SalesianSDB
Guest
I totally agree. This is one of my favorite sections in this forum because I love learning about non-Christian religions. I feel that this section should be about learning of other’s faiths and respecting them. But from what I noticed, there isn’t much discussion it’s more like, “Oh, your Mormon, you believe this — and — so you aren’t Christian end of story.” But we don’t let them tell us exactly what they believe.
Imagine your speaking with a Protestant and they say, “You’re Catholic? You worship Mary and dead people and believe in some made up doctrine called Purgatory, so you aren’t Christians end of story.” And they don’t let you explain your faith and tell them the reason why you believe it and act as if they know your faith better than you do. That is what I see happening here.
We should be open to our LDS brothers and sisters and hear them out. Let them explain what they believe and WHY. And from my studies of other faiths and Catholicism, the WHY is important…
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twopekinguys
Guest
Report it, I did.
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