Mormon Temple Ceremony and Magic

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I was a veil worker after the 1990 changes so I can speak to those. My parents still work in the Temple every week.

There is very accurate information available on the exact wording of the current (and past) Temple ceremonies. I would be happy to answer specific questions that arise from reading the transcripts.

Amgid is free to keep his “pearls” to himself while us “dead and apostate” “swine” discuss spiritual truth,

👍
 
majick275 said:
I was a veil worker after the 1990 changes so I can speak to those. My parents still work in the Temple every week.

There is very accurate information available on the exact wording of the current (and past) Temple ceremonies. I would be happy to answer specific questions that arise from reading the transcripts.

Amgid is free to keep his “pearls” to himself while us “dead and apostate” “swine” discuss spiritual truth,

👍
Click to expand...
Thank you majick275…so is the The Oath of Vengeance still practiced today in Temple endowment?
 
majick275 said:
I was a veil worker after the 1990 changes so I can speak to those. My parents still work in the Temple every week.

There is very accurate information available on the exact wording of the current (and past) Temple ceremonies. I would be happy to answer specific questions that arise from reading the transcripts.

Amgid is free to keep his “pearls” to himself while us “dead and apostate” “swine” discuss spiritual truth,

👍
Click to expand...
Gee, I am one of those apostate swine. I had bacon with my eggs this morning after mass. Does that make me a cannibal?:eek:
 
Karin said:
Thank you majick275…so is the The Oath of Vengeance still practiced today in Temple endowment?
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no it is not. It has not been practiced in quite some time. ( I never personally experienced this nor have my parents mentioned it even when we were in the Temple where they could speak about it) I believe it was stopped long ago.
 
is it true that in a veil ceremony someone is **pretending **to be the Lord???

A Veil Worker represents the Lord behind the Veil, and an Introducer presents the patron
to the Lord and coaches him through his lines and actions if
necessary. The Lord reaches through and opening in the Veil to take his hand in the various grips or tokens and asks him
specific questions through the Veil. His answers must be word
perfect. The culmination of this examination is the name of the
Second Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Patriarchal Grip,
or Sure Sign of the Nail, which is given to the patron only
through the Veil, while embracing the Lord in the Five Points of
Fellowship. SOURCE
 
majick275 said:
no it is not. It has not been practiced in quite some time. ( I never personally experienced this nor have my parents mentioned it even when we were in the Temple where they could speak about it) I believe it was stopped long ago.
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I read that the oath of vengeance was removed from the endowment in 1910. The blood oaths and penalties (throat slitting, tearing the heart from the chest and disemboweling) became less bloody in 1969, and were removed completely in 1990, along with the Christian minister as an employee of Satan and all of the teaching that a woman is to obey her husband as if he is God. They also removed “Pay Lay Ale” which was supposed to be the Adamic language for “Oh God, hear the words of my mouth”. Or maybe it was Reformed Adamic.😃

Because I left the morg in 1986, all of my temple experience was with the pre-1990 version of the endowment.

God bless,
Paul
 
Karin said:
is it true that in a veil ceremony someone is **pretending **to be the Lord???

A Veil Worker represents the Lord behind the Veil, and an Introducer presents the patron
to the Lord and coaches him through his lines and actions if
necessary. The Lord reaches through and opening in the Veil to take his hand in the various grips or tokens and asks him
specific questions through the Veil. His answers must be word
perfect. The culmination of this examination is the name of the
Second Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Patriarchal Grip,
or Sure Sign of the Nail, which is given to the patron only
through the Veil, while embracing the Lord in the Five Points of
Fellowship. SOURCE
Click to expand...
Yes, several male veil workers play the part of The Lord at the veil. They no longer do the “Five Points of Fellowship” at the veil. That is because some of the women (and indeed some of the men) reported being groped by the Lord at the veil during the Five Points of Fellowship. Apparently some of the veil workers had one of their “points of fellowship” grow very large during these encounters. :rolleyes:
Paul
 
Karin said:
Thank you majick275…so is the The Oath of Vengeance still practiced today in Temple endowment?
Click to expand...
Reed Smoot was a Mormon Apostle who had been elected a Senator from Utah. In 1903 a protest was filed in the United States Senate to have Hon. Smoot removed from office, on the grounds that he had taken this treasonous oath in the endowment ritual. The complete record of this episode was published in:

U.S. Senate Document 486 (59th Congress, 1st Session) Proceedings Before the Committee on Privileges and Elections of the United States Senate in the Matter of the Protests Against the Right of Hon. Reed Smoot, a Senator from the State of Utah, to hold his Seat. 4 vols.+1 vol. index] (Washington: Government Printing Office, 1906)

Several former Mormons revealed the content of this oath. The wording was as follows:

“You and each of you do covenant and promise that you will pray and never cease to pray to Almighty God to avenge the blood of the prophets upon this nation, and that you will teach the same to your children and to your children’s children unto the third and fourth generation.”

The oath remained a part of the temple rituals until February 15, 1927.
lds-mormon.com/veilworker/oathvenge.shtml
 
Karin said:
is it true that in a veil ceremony someone is **pretending **to be the Lord???

A Veil Worker represents the Lord behind the Veil, and an Introducer presents the patron
to the Lord and coaches him through his lines and actions if
necessary. The Lord reaches through and opening in the Veil to take his hand in the various grips or tokens and asks him
specific questions through the Veil. His answers must be word
perfect. The culmination of this examination is the name of the
Second Token of the Melchizedek Priesthood, the Patriarchal Grip,
or Sure Sign of the Nail, which is given to the patron only
through the Veil, while embracing the Lord in the Five Points of
Fellowship. SOURCE
Click to expand...
YES
 
PaulDupre said:
Yes, several male veil workers play the part of The Lord at the veil. They no longer do the “Five Points of Fellowship” at the veil. That is because some of the women (and indeed some of the men) reported being groped by the Lord at the veil during the Five Points of Fellowship. Apparently some of the veil workers had one of their “points of fellowship” grow very large during these encounters. :rolleyes:
Paul
Click to expand...
Grope?
I guess when man thinks he is the Lord or pretends to be the Lord you can not expect anything else:( …
 
Karin said:
Grope?
I guess when man thinks he is the Lord or pretends to be the Lord you can not expect anything else:( …
Click to expand...
The following links contain the actual text of the ceremony in the various forms it has had since the early days of the church.
1931 Version: home.teleport.com/~packham/endow31.htm
1984 Version: home.teleport.com/~packham/endow84.htm
1990 Version: home.teleport.com/~packham/endow90.htm
2005 Version: home.teleport.com/~packham/endow05.htm (the changes in the washing and anointing ceremony)
lds-mormon.com/veilworker/endowment.shtml
utlm.org/topicalindexc.htm#Temple Ceremony
“Helping Mormons” Christian-oriented site, with complete texts and many photos
To hear the actual audio recording of the ceremonies, in either MP3 or RealAudio format, click here or here (both offsite).

A very thorough and sympathetic treatment of all aspects of Mormon temple ritual, by a Mormon, is LDS Endowment (www.ldsendowment.org)). The only items not revealed there are the actual names and descriptions of the signs, tokens and penalties.

Photo of two Mormon men in temple robes - the women wear the same robes except they have a long veil instead of the cap.
Photo of a couple in temple robes, with close-up photos of other temple clothing (offsite)
mrm.org/multimedia/text/garments.html A description of the sacred undergarment which Mormons are required to wear after receiving the endowment.
Photo of a man and woman in garments
nowscape.com/mormon/undrwrmo.htm More on “garments”
mrm.org/multimedia/text/temple-ceremony.html
nowscape.com/mormon/mormcr1.htm
saintsalive.com/mormonism/templechanges.htm
lds-mormon.com/veilworker/recommend.shtml The questions that are asked in the “worthiness interview” to determine whether a member is worthy to receive admission to the temple.
lds-mormon.com/new_temple_questions.shtml The revised set of questions (1999 version)

The following links deal with the Masonic influence on the Mormon endowment.
masonicmoroni.com Paul Graham’s comprehensive site, with many links from all points of view
irr.org/mit/masonry.html
mrm.org/multimedia/text/masonic-influence.html
 
You know, I’m really really grateful that I was never “worthy” to go through the temple while I was a Mormon. I have been spared that part of Mormonism at least. It wasn’t until after I had left that I even dared to find out what actually went on in the temple. As I read the transcripts on the internet I just sat there and bawled. it was so heinous compared to the new-found Faith I have in Jesus.

in Christ
Steph
 
tundramom said:
You know, I’m really really grateful that I was never “worthy” to go through the temple while I was a Mormon. I have been spared that part of Mormonism at least. It wasn’t until after I had left that I even dared to find out what actually went on in the temple. As I read the transcripts on the internet I just sat there and bawled. it was so heinous compared to the new-found Faith I have in Jesus.

in Christ
Steph
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Just curious Steph…what was the reason you where not “worthy” for the temple? (if you want to share)
 
tundramom said:
You know, I’m really really grateful that I was never “worthy” to go through the temple while I was a Mormon. I have been spared that part of Mormonism at least. It wasn’t until after I had left that I even dared to find out what actually went on in the temple. As I read the transcripts on the internet I just sat there and bawled. it was so heinous compared to the new-found Faith I have in Jesus.

in Christ
Steph
Click to expand...
While the temple ceremony is indeed laughable, in my late teens it did give me a reason to try to stay “worthy” and probably contributed to my avoidance of some of the mistakes other people of that age made. Even not knowing what went on in the temple, I avoided certain behaviors because I wanted to get there. It helped me take my religion more seriously. When I see the drunkedness and immorality of most of the Catholic youth in my area and contrast that with many of the LDS youth in my area, it is hard to argue with the results of Mormonism. Perhaps that is a result of my living in the mission field – back in Utah perhaps the Mormon youth exhibit the same behaviors as the Catholic youth do here in the Midwest. To some extent the temple contributes to people living moral lives because of the promises that are made there. I wish more Christians would take their religion as seriously as the Mormons do with regards to how they actually live. As much as we might not wish to admit it, the temple is a big motivator for active Mormons to live pretty decent lives.
 
I don’t understand why you all don’t have more respect for other people’s beliefs. I also do not understand why some of you who left the Mormon church are discussing openly something you promised you wouldn’t. I understand you are disaffected but isn’t your word worth anything?
 
rmcmullan said:
I don’t understand why you all don’t have more respect for other people’s beliefs. I also do not understand why some of you who left the Mormon church are discussing openly something you promised you wouldn’t. I understand you are disaffected but isn’t your word worth anything?
Click to expand...
the ex-mormons that are posting (please correct me if wrong) are showing the world that your church is wrong…why do you have such an issue with this? Also the ex-mormons are no longer mormons so they can tell all about their experiences if they so want…they is no “promises” that they need to keep…especially to a church that has no authority over them any longer!
 
rmcmullan said:
I don’t understand why you all don’t have more respect for other people’s beliefs. I also do not understand why some of you who left the Mormon church are discussing openly something you promised you wouldn’t. I understand you are disaffected but isn’t your word worth anything?
Click to expand...
No problem at all in discussing it. I didn’t make those promises and even if I had, people need to know. Jesus said he did nothing in private… I don’t have to hide under a bushel either.

in Christ
Steph
 
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