Mormon Temple Ceremony and Magic

[Megatron]

These “promises” that were made were actually “covenants”, right? A covenant implies a sense of a mutual contract between two parties. Both parties are, of course, expected to fulfill their end of the bargain.

Those who have left the LDS church (myself included) who received these temple covenants did so at the time under the assumption that the LDS church was “true” and that the ordinances therein were recognized and endorsed by God.

Since returning to Catholicism, I have come to realize that these “covenants” that I made in LDS temples have no power or bearing over me or my afterlife. This isn’t so much a matter of disrespect, but a cold hard fact.

Don’t get me wrong, I respect anyone who lives their faith to its fullest. It’s disrepectful to insult anyone’s religion or their practices. With that being said, as I don’t feel the least bit disrespectful discussing aspects of the LDS temples or their ceremonies in a public forum such as this. Again, there was no “covenant” in the first place between myself and Christ. As a result, there never were any promises or covenants made; they are voided. Period.

 

[Mom_of_5]

I don’t understand why you all don’t have more respect for other people’s beliefs. I also do not understand why some of you who left the Mormon church are discussing openly something you promised you wouldn’t. I understand you are disaffected but isn’t your word worth anything?

When an LDS member leaves the church, they recieve a letter stating that all effects of baptism, priesthood, blessings, etc. have been taken away. That means that there are no remainging ties between the “ex” member and the church giving that person freedom to discuss openly his or her experiences with that church community. The church certainly has no loyalty to the “ex” member by removing all the blessings, etc. If the “ex” wants to go back to the church they must start from the beginning.

Love and peace, Mom of 5

 

[Eden]

I don’t understand why you all don’t have more respect for other people’s beliefs. I also do not understand why some of you who left the Mormon church are discussing openly something you promised you wouldn’t. I understand you are disaffected but isn’t your word worth anything?

When you say disrespectful, are you referring to my use of the term “magic underwear”? If so, I apologize as it was not my intention to offend when asking about it. I was using the term “magic underwear” because I read it on a site that I believed was Mormon and was curious as to what it meant.

 

[PaulDupre]

I don’t understand why you all don’t have more respect for other people’s beliefs. I also do not understand why some of you who left the Mormon church are discussing openly something you promised you wouldn’t. I understand you are disaffected but isn’t your word worth anything?

I made those promises under false pretenses. The Mormons lied to me and the promises I made in good faith at that time became null and void when I discovered that I had been the victim of intentional deception.

The world needs to be warned about the lies told by the Mormon Church. The way you destroy a vampire is to drag it out into the sunlight. That is what we are doing to the religion of the undead - the Mormon Church. Telling people about the silly and blasphemous temple ceremonies is shining the sunlight on the viscious lies of the Mormons.

God have mercy on the Mormons,
Paul

 

[PaulDupre]

I don’t understand why you all don’t have more respect for other people’s beliefs. I also do not understand why some of you who left the Mormon church are discussing openly something you promised you wouldn’t. I understand you are disaffected but isn’t your word worth anything?

Speaking of respect for others’ beliefs…

The Mormon Church has hundreds of thousands of ignorant young boys traveling the world claiming that God said that:

they [Christian churches] were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; - Joseph Smith History as published in The Pearl of Great Price

Let’s examine this statement. Webster’s New World College Dictionary defines abomination as

1. an abominating; great hatred and disgust; loathing
2. Anything hateful and disgusting.

The same dictionary defines professor as

1. a person who professes something; esp., one who openly declares his sentiments, religious beliefs, etc.

The dictionary defines corrupt as

1. Changed from a sound condition to an unsound one; spoiled; contaminated; rotten
2. deteriorated from the normal or standard; specif,. a) morally unsound or debased; perverted; evil; depraved

Here is the Nicene Creed, the most-often recited Christian Creed and the one I as a Catholic profess:

We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.

We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, light from light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
one in Being with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
by the power of the Holy Spirit,
he was born of the Virgin Mary
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered, died and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in fulfillment of the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.

We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
with the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified,
he has spoken through the prophets.

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen.

Now tell me, McMullan, what part of my creed is filthy, hateful and disgusting?

What about this creed makes me, a professor of this creed, rotten, morally debased, perverted, evil and depraved?

Don’t you dare tell me about respect for the beliefs of others!

God bless you,
Paul

 

[rmcmullan]

I made those promises under false pretenses. The Mormons lied to me and the promises I made in good faith at that time became null and void when I discovered that I had been the victim of intentional deception.
Paul

Okay, I guess that means that your word is not to be trusted.

 

[rmcmullan]

When you say disrespectful, are you referring to my use of the term “magic underwear”? If so, I apologize as it was not my intention to offend when asking about it. I was using the term “magic underwear” because I read it on a site that I believed was Mormon and was curious as to what it meant.

Well, yes I thought that was a major troll. Like you were trying to be outrageously provocative. Look, I know I’m just a guest here and if you want to, you can poke at Mormons as much as you like (although it’s to your honor if you don’t!). But I don’t like it when someone latches on to a little pecularity and makes fun of someone or something because of it. It seems like the only purpose behind such a thing is to make fun. But okay, I believe you, your curiosity was piqued.

I know there’s some enmity between any two religions but I always thought the Catholics and Mormon were fairly closely aligned.

 

[rmcmullan]

Speaking of respect for others’ beliefs…

The Mormon Church has hundreds of thousands of ignorant young boys traveling the world claiming that God said that:

Paul

Hey, don’t call my two sons ignorant!

 

[Karin]

Okay, I guess that means that your wrd is not to be trusted.

what do you care? you can keep the lds secrets.

 

[Karin]

Well, yes I thought that was a major troll. Like you were trying to be outrageously provocative. Look, I know I’m just a guest here and if you want to, you can poke at Mormons as much as you like (although it’s to your honor if you don’t!). But I don’t like it when someone latches on to a little pecularity and makes fun of someone or something because of it. It seems like the only purpose behind such a thing is to make fun. But okay, I believe you, your curiosity was piqued.

I** know there’s some enmity between any two religions but I always thought the Catholics and Mormon were fairly closely aligned**.

I dont think so…who would give you that idea…the temple!!!

 

[Megatron]

Okay, I guess that means that your word is not to be trusted.

I don’t mean to speak for Paul, but in my opinion - as a former member of the LDS church - I believe that it’s the organization that I put my faith in when I made those temple covenants that is in error. (Note: I could have said “could not be trusted”, however, that is a bit dark).

On a positive note: I don’t think I’d be the Catholic I am today without my journey through Mormonism. It was part of my spiritual journey that led me to truth. I think as a result of this, I’m not all that bitter with Mormonism as some. Sure, there are clear doctrinal and social reasons why I left the LDS church and why I don’t believe that it is true at all, but I’m happy where I am now as a Catholic.

 

[Megatron]

I know there’s some enmity between any two religions but I always thought the Catholics and Mormon were fairly closely aligned.

I think this distinction gets blurred due to the fact that similar pragmatics and terms are used by both Catholics and Mormons. For example, we both claim to have faith in “Jesus Christ”. As a Catholic, I interpret the label “Jesus Christ” to refer to the third person of the Holy Trinity, full deity, True God, Begotten not Made. He became my “brother” to the extent that he took on flesh for the salvation of mankind.

In Mormon theology, Christ was an intelligence (D&C 93: 21) who was “created” in much the same effect that we were by spiritual parents. Ontologically, there is no distinction between us and Christ, just degrees of separation along a scale of “eternal progression.” Christ ATTAINED godhood in his pre-mortal existence - which is quite odd, given that we, the spirit-siblings of this being had to taken on fallen flesh (i.e. our second estate) to attain exhaltation. This version being “Christ” would also do the same, namely, to first take care of his own exaltation while along the way atoning for our sins.

Maintaining a belief in the “Christ” of the LDS church, then, is idolatry. It requires putting our faith in a deity that is not and wasn’t always fully divine. LDS worship a created deity rather than the true creator, the Giver of life.

 

[tundramom]

I made those promises under false pretenses. The Mormons lied to me and the promises I made in good faith at that time became null and void when I discovered that I had been the victim of intentional deception.

The world needs to be warned about the lies told by the Mormon Church. The way you destroy a vampire is to drag it out into the sunlight. That is what we are doing to the religion of the undead - the Mormon Church. Telling people about the silly and blasphemous temple ceremonies is shining the sunlight on the viscious lies of the Mormons.

God have mercy on the Mormons,
Paul

AMEN Paul!

in Christ
Steph

 

[majick275]

I’ve got to agree with Paul on this one. The importance of saving souls by revealing truth is far more important than any false covenants made while under the misconceptions brought about by the inculcation of false doctrine in the LDS church.

rmcmullan is entitled to his opinion but those of us who have made the journey from darkness to light have a different point of view.

As you are, we once were. As we are, we can only hope you will become…for your own good.

Now, what shall discuss regarding the mormon temple ceremony?

 

[PaulDupre]

majick275;1671384uls by:

As you are, we once were. As we are, we can only hope you will become…for your own good.

Well said, sir!
Paul

 

[rmcmullan]

As you are, we once were. As we are, we can only hope you will become…for your own good.

Remember that I used to be Catholic.

I did get another wide-open-eyeballs smiley from Karin for saying so but I still think our churches are similar in many respects. To me the big difference isn’t the temples or the Trinity or the lay clergy or the priesthood, it’s the Book of Mormon. If the Catholic Church accepted the Book of Mormon, I’d consider it but until that happens…

 

[Karin]

Remember that I used to be Catholic.

I did get another wide-open-eyeballs smiley from Karin for saying so but I still think our churches are similar in many respects. To me the big difference isn’t the temples or the Trinity or the lay clergy or the priesthood, it’s the Book of Mormon. If the Catholic Church accepted the Book of Mormon, I’d consider it but until that happens…

what Catholic in their RIGHT MIND would ever consider the BoM anything other than a bunch of “gobbly gook”???
I for one will never place any value in the BoM since in my eye,mind, soul, total being it is the biggest work of the devil…it is one of his many works to attempt to steal us AWAY from the ONE TRUE GOD!

 

[majick275]

just as you sometimes question those who “used to be” Mormon as perhaps not really understanding/living the faith so too do we feel the same about those who used to be Catholic.

Interesting that you base your faith almost exclusively on the BoM. I find that problematic since it is SO different from the structure and practices of the LDS church. where does it teach eternal marriage, the importance of the temple endowment , the first presidency as a required priesthood body. In fact where does it show the apostles being “replaced” to maintain the required “quorum”? or did the “righteous” nephites not have proper priesthood authority in their church? where was Mormon called a prophet by the laying on of hands by those with proper authority? I could go on and on about the differences between the mormon church and the book of mormon but that’s a good start

 

[Megatron]

just as you sometimes question those who “used to be” Mormon as perhaps not really understanding/living the faith so too do we feel the same about those who used to be Catholic.

Interesting that you base your faith almost exclusively on the BoM. I find that problematic since it is SO different from the structure and practices of the LDS church. where does it teach eternal marriage, the importance of the temple endowment , the first presidency as a required priesthood body. In fact where does it show the apostles being “replaced” to maintain the required “quorum”? or did the “righteous” nephites not have proper priesthood authority in their church? where was Mormon called a prophet by the laying on of hands by those with proper authority? I could go on and on about the differences between the mormon church and the book of mormon but that’s a good start

I couldn’t agree w/ you more on this point. The BoM does not reflect current LDS doctrine at all.

Even worse, is the lithamus test at the end of the book to test its validity as Holy Writ. If we are to take Moroni’s challenge (Moroni 10:3-5) seriously, we end up with a “lose-lose” situation. Any positive “feelings” towards the book are a confirmation (at least we are told such) of the “truthfulness” of the book and its message. Those who do not receive such a “testimony” are either hard of heart, doubting, etc.

When you set up a scientific experiment you need to develop tests that are “reliable” and “valid”. By “valid” I mean that they set out to test what is actually being studied and by “reliable” to the extent that anyone anywhere can run the same sort of test and acquire the same results. This clearly is not the case in determining the “truthfulness” of the BoM.

 

[PaulDupre]

Remember that I used to be Catholic.

I did get another wide-open-eyeballs smiley from Karin for saying so but I still think our churches are similar in many respects. To me the big difference isn’t the temples or the Trinity or the lay clergy or the priesthood, it’s the Book of Mormon. If the Catholic Church accepted the Book of Mormon, I’d consider it but until that happens…

That is possibly the weirdest thing I have ever read from a Mormon. The Book of Mormon is the second most-thoroughly debunked fraudulent “scripture” of all time. The Book of Abraham occupies the number one spot, but the Book of Mormon is a very close second. How can you base your entire life and salvation on a book that has been proven time and time again to be a complete fake - and not a very skillful fake at that?

May God have mercy on you,
Paul