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EvangelCatholic
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Interesting subject; thanks all.
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Shinehah
Guest
Hello, I would consult the Masonic rituals themselves to see what they portray their origins to be.
I am aware of Joseph Smith’s Masonic involvement and the timline of LDS temple ritual introduction.
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Shinehah
Guest
Hi Paul,
I don’t know everything that happened inside the ancient Israelite Tabernacle/Temple. We know what is given in the Bible, but I don’t believe that everything that went on was discussed or written down, knowing the sacred nature of temples.
I have attended Catholic Mass.
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PaulDupre1
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When was the last time you went to the LDS temple and brought an unblemished lamb to be slaughtered and burned?
Apparently the LDS do not experience the temple as ancient Israel did.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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Shinehah
Guest
Animal sacrifice, as performed by ancient Israel, was done away after Jesus was crucified and resurrected. The animal sacrifices were meant to point man’s mind forward to the then future atonement of Christ. I am not aware of any Christian group who still practices this.
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iepuras
Guest
I don’t think there are very many Masons who actually believe that Freemasonry originated in Solomon’s Temple. Most people believe that Freemasonry originated from medieval stonemason guilds. Others believe that Freemasonry originated from the Knights Templar. “Born in Blood” by John J. Robinson has a very interesting book that supports the idea that Freemasonry is descended from the Knights Templar and that they were behind the Peasants’ Revolt of 1381 in England.
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PaulDupre1
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Then your claim that “LDS experience the temple as ancient Israelites did” is not true, is it?
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
P.S.: How old are you? You “sound” very young, like a teenager in seminary. If you are under 18 I will stop debating with you. Catholics (unlike Mormons) do not proselytize to minors behind their parents’ backs.
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Shinehah
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You misquote my post. Here it is for you:
“We believe that temples are truly the ‘House of the Lord’ as the ancient Israelites experienced it, and that the presence of Jesus Christ may be experienced in these temples unlike any other place on earth.”
We don’t believe that we sacrifice animals like ancient Israel did. We do believe that the Temple is the House of the Lord, as ancient Israel experienced it, and that the presence of Jesus Christ may be experienced in them unlike other places on earth. I hope this is self-explanatory.
I am 42. How old are you? And, no, Latter-day Saints do not proselytize minors without parent’s permission.
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PaulDupre1
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Really? Many of us have experienced and witnessed what you say the LDS do not do. It is common practice for LDS families to attempt to indoctrinate their children’s non-LDS playmates. It happens all the time. These LDS think they are doing God’s will going behind the parents’ backs to teach the children about Mormonism. But it is just another form of LDS deception.
I am 60 years old, BTW.
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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Thermopylae
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How old are you, mate?
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PaulDupre1
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PaulDupre1
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Why not? LDS magazines, teaching manuals and books by GAs are full of temple references about baptism for the dead, temple marriage, the covenants made in the temple, temple recommends and interviews and so forth.
We should expect Hebrew literature including the OT and the Talmud to be full of similar references, but there are none. None at all. Not anywhere.
Why do you think that is?
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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twopekinguys
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RebeccaJ
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That is not what your church teaches.
In 1840 Joseph Smith taught that the Old Testament (Malachi 3:3) foretells the restoration of elements associated with ancient Israelite temple service, including some form of sacrifice.
Joseph Smith’s comments on animal sacrifice comments were made on 5 October 1840.
The Lord further clarified the nature of these sacrifices in the Nauvoo Temple revelation (D&C 124) dated 19 January 1841:
Therefore, verily I say unto you, that your anointings, and your washings, and your baptisms for the dead, and your solemn assemblies, and your memorials for your sacrifices by the sons of Levi, and for your oracles in your most holy places wherein you receive conversations, and your statutes and judgments, for the beginning of the revelations and foundation of Zion, and for the glory, honor, and endowment of all her municipals, are ordained by the ordinance of my holy house, which my people are always commanded to build unto my holy name. (DC 124:39)
The sacrifice of animals will be done to complete the restoration when the temple spoken of is built; at the beginning of the millennium, or in the restoration, blood sacrifices will be performed long enough to complete the fulness of the restoration in this dispensation. Afterwards sacrifice will be of some other character. (Doctrines of Salvation 3:94)
The members of the Church are reminded that the practice of polygamous or plural marriage is not the only law whose suspension has been authorized by the Lord and adopted by the people. The law of animal sacrifice, in force in ancient Israel, has been suspended, but the Prophet Joseph asserted it would be again restored, and such is the effect of the statement made by John the Baptist when restoring the Aaronic priesthood. The law of the United Order has likewise been suspended, to be reestablished in the due time of the Lord. Other laws might be mentioned. [Messages of the First Presidency, vol 5, p. 327]
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CarolNoel
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My thoughts too. Looks unreal and a bit off.
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Heismysword
Guest
Yes you do, I went to highschool in Idaho and grade school in Tremonton Utah. I spent many, many hours being proselytized by my LDS friends, and when I refused to convert spent many more months being ostracized by the same friends.
And my story is NOT uncommon. At least not behind the “Zion Curtain”.
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Heismysword
Guest
The Temple in Jerusalem was for animal sacrifices for the remission of the sins of Israel. Since Jesus was sacrificed ONCE for all sins every committed by Man the Temple is no longer relevant.
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andrewstx
Guest
One thing that has gone completely unmentioned is the complete difference between churches and Mormon temples.
A church is generally just one room where people gather for the sacrifice of the Mass and other sacraments. I can think of only one Mormon temple like that, the temple belonging to the Community of Christ in Independence MO.
All other Mormon temples are divided into many small rooms. They just don’t have a large space for worship.
Of course Utah Mormons do not accept the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganised Mormons as being real Mormons at all.
A church is generally just one room where people gather for the sacrifice of the Mass and other sacraments. I can think of only one Mormon temple like that, the temple belonging to the Community of Christ in Independence MO.
All other Mormon temples are divided into many small rooms. They just don’t have a large space for worship.
Of course Utah Mormons do not accept the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganised Mormons as being real Mormons at all.
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dianaiad
Guest
I don’t rightly know, Paul…
but it might have something to do with the printing press, the amount of literacy, who was responsible for Temple matters in the OT and things of that nature.
Mind you, I think it mostly has to do with the printing press…and the culture that didn’t have one vs. the culture that does. Think about it.
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PaulDupre1
Guest
That is a reasonable thought.
But scads of other very detailed information covering many subjects was recorded in the OT, preserved in oral tradition and commented upon extensively in countless volumes of Midrash and Talmud over many centuries (well before the printing press, btw).
So if the Jewish temple performed all of those uniquely LDS functions that you believe are and were central to the practice of the true faith, I would expect to see such mentioned in there somewhere.
That’s reasonable too, no?
Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
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