Mormon temples compared to Catholic Basilicas and Cathedrals

[andrewstx]

Catholic churches exist for liturgy, and liturgy is a public work. The word liturgy is itself rooted in a Greek word that means “public work for the people”. When the Sistine Chapel is closed for a conclave, it is analogous to a portion of a public garden being closed off for a private event.

Private chapels and churches have permission to be closed to the public, but whether it is on an estate or a monastery, there isn’t a secret liturgy. Liturgy is liturgy. Go to Mass at a parish, you don’t need to wonder what’s going on inside of a monastery chapel. If you’re really curious you can mail (or some have email) monasteries and ask them. They’ll tell you as much as you want to know.

LDS temples are a private work for select individuals. When LDS temples are open for the public, it is analogous to a private individual opening their home for a public tour. What goes on in an LDS temple is held tightly, no one Mormon is going to answer questions, openly, as much as anyone wants to know, about what goes on inside of a LDS temple.

I don’t think the two can be compared because Mormon and Catholics approach these things differently. Catholics view religion as an open and public, the Church and churches, existing for the people (all people).

Mormons view religion as closed and private, and its Temples existing for the select, or elect.

I think we may be off a bit on the 'private chapel" thing. I never saw a chapel for religious completely closed to the public. And I am a former religious myself who should know.

Some cloistered communities who are enclosed often have a separate part for the members, but the public can be welcomed in the part of the chapel that is not within the enclosure. All that seperates them is a screen.

 

[andrewstx]

I am convinced there is no defense for Mormonism. Every time she attempts a * tu quoque * defense it reinforces my conviction.

Therefore, I have to agree with you both. If there really is a way to defend Mormonism then it should be able to be defended without trying to compare it to the Catholic Church.

Is tu quoque just a more mature way of saying “And so’s your old man” in Latin?

Then I object to it as well.

 

[zaffiroborant]

then it’s a bit, oh…

odd?

for you to criticize anybody else for also having places that are private, sacred, and restricted to specific people for specific things. The BIGGEST difference, as I see it, (at least when seen from the outside here) between temples and Papal conclaves and privately owned chapels that are used only by priests, nuns and monks is that temples actually allow more people in than your folks do, and perhaps don’t require QUITE the same level of commitment/price from the attendees that your folks do.

I didn’t criticize the LDS practice I limited my criticism to your failed analogy. There is no comparing temple admittance with a papal conclave, a valid comparison would be, as I said the selection of a new president of the LDS church. Nor is your comparison of privately owned monastery or convent chapels to LDS church owned temples any more valid than a comparison of my privately owned home to LDS church owned temples.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I think we may be off a bit on the 'private chapel" thing. I never saw a chapel for religious completely closed to the public. And I am a former religious myself who should know.

Some cloistered communities who are enclosed often have a separate part for the members, but the public can be welcomed in the part of the chapel that is not within the enclosure. All that seperates them is a screen.

Thank you.

 

[RebeccaJ]

She really can’t help it, is what I am seeing. I have come to expect it now. That, and the veiled implying of persecution in practically every post (such as in the last one with words like “attacking”, “demeaning”, “insinuating”, “belittle”, etc.

Hyperbole is an easy tool. I find her posts amusing sometimes, but I kind of have a warped sense of humor.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I think we may be off a bit on the 'private chapel" thing. I never saw a chapel for religious completely closed to the public. And I am a former religious myself who should know.

Some cloistered communities who are enclosed often have a separate part for the members, but the public can be welcomed in the part of the chapel that is not within the enclosure. All that seperates them is a screen.

Thank you.

 

[KjetilK]

Actually no. Mormonism is much closer to orthodox Christianity than Scientology is. Scientology has nothing to do with the Bible or any Christian ideas and concepts.

And neither does Mormonism. They may claim that it is, but it isn’t. Mormonism is a polytheistic religion where ‘god’ is a created being and where we can all become ‘gods.’

 

[Catholic_farmer]

Why all the secrecy by Mormons?

Why are women excluded?

It really does seem Masonic in that regard. There are no secrets about what goes on during a Catholic or Protestant service.

 

[dianaiad]

Criticism of a building is not tantamount to insulting a faith.

It is in here, and when the posts and the posters connect the buildings with the believers who worship in them.

There are plenty of ugly churches out there with ugly architecture and interiors of questionable taste. So what.

Context.

That is unimportant…If you get insulted over the aesthetics of a building then you are hyper sensitive. try being a catholic and be subjected to all kinds of insults.

You are, seriously, saying that to a MORMON? Really? Now I’m not about to downplay the idea that Catholics are subject to insults. You are.

But goodness gracious. That’s sort of like the guy in a walking boot telling the guy in the walking cast to 'try wearing an orthopedic boot and see how hard it is to walk then."

I mean…c’mon.

Like I said before the kind of building and what it looks like is immaterial .Jesus is there in the Eucharist. That is why many Catholics, even if the structure is beautiful,find many churches empty.

that’s fine…but you won’t see me going into a non-Catholic forum dedicated to criticizing Catholicism and carping at the architecture.

 

[dianaiad]

I think we may be off a bit on the 'private chapel" thing. I never saw a chapel for religious completely closed to the public. And I am a former religious myself who should know.

Some cloistered communities who are enclosed often have a separate part for the members, but the public can be welcomed in the part of the chapel that is not within the enclosure. All that seperates them is a screen.

And Temples are not completely closed off to the general public, either. There are times when none Temple Recommend holders are allowed in.

A screen separated the private part from the public part in your chapels…but they are separate. There’s nothing WRONG with this.

 

[dianaiad]

And neither does Mormonism. They may claim that it is, but it isn’t. Mormonism is a polytheistic religion where ‘god’ is a created being and where we can all become ‘gods.’

John 10:34.

Look it up.

 

[iepuras]

It is in here, and when the posts and the posters connect the buildings with the believers who worship in them.

Again, please point out the specific post where someone claimed that the beauty of a building has anything to do with the truth claims of the people who built it.

Please stop making assumptions that have nothing to do with what people have actually posted.

dianaiad:

You are, seriously, saying that to a MORMON? Really? Now I’m not about to downplay the idea that Catholics are subject to insults. You are.

But goodness gracious. That’s sort of like the guy in a walking boot telling the guy in the walking cast to 'try wearing an orthopedic boot and see how hard it is to walk then."

I mean…c’mon.

And playing the persecution card in a Catholic forum? I mean…c’mon.

 

[dianaiad]

Again, please point out the specific post where someone claimed that the beauty of a building has anything to do with the truth claims of the people who built it.

Please stop making assumptions that have nothing to do with what people have actually posted.

And playing the persecution card in a Catholic forum? I mean…c’mon.

Aren’t you?

Pay attention to the analogy I used: walking cast, orthopedic boot…SAME THING.

In other words, I wasn’t claiming to be more persecuted than Catholics. It was Julia who pulled the persecution card in this one.

But hey…you know the saying about 'it ain’t paranoia if they really are out to get you?"

I figure that since I really have had rocks thrown at me, jobs refused me, my children physically thrown out of a store and…I’m sure I’ve mentioned the 'the deceased is in hell and you will soon follow if you don’t leave the devil Mormon church" pamphlet that was put under my windshield wiper…at my husband’s funeral?

Well, I’m still not all THAT certain that Jim didn’t set that one up before he died…

 

[LivingWaters7]

Please cite the specific post(s) where someone claimed or implied that the beauty, or lack thereof, of a building has anything to do with the truth of a belief system. Link to the actual post(s) in question.

As for me, while I do understand the observations presented on what the interior of certain parts of the LDS temples look like, including as compared to nice hotel lobbies (an observation not unique to this board), I personally don’t find that relevant to the truth claims of the LDS church (and I have yet to find someone who does). What I do find relevant are the rituals that go on inside. Specifically, we find no evidence of the Endowment as a ritual that occurred in the ancient tabernacle and temple(s), and we find no evidence that the ancient Christians performed an Endowment ordinance as necessary for eternal life. We further find no evidence for sealings being performed either.

So for me, while LDS temples are certainly beautiful, peaceful places (I have said as much many times, and mentioned that it is one aspect that I miss), and I find the religious structures of various other faiths similarly beautiful and peaceful, I find no evidence for the rituals that go on there being an actual restoration of lost ancient Christian practices.

 

[iepuras]

Aren’t you?

No. I’ve never played the persecution card. Never as a Mormon and never as a Catholic.

dianaiad:

In other words, I wasn’t claiming to be more persecuted than Catholics. It was Julia who pulled the persecution card in this one.

You were the one who was initially insulted because some people said that the celestial rooms in temples look like nice hotel lobbies. You played that card first.

dianaiad:

But hey…you know the saying about 'it ain’t paranoia if they really are out to get you?"

Who, exactly, is currently ‘out to get’ you?

 

[Stephen168]

Please cite the specific post(s) where someone claimed or implied that the beauty, or lack thereof, of a building has anything to do with the truth of a belief system. Link to the actual post(s) in question.

This is the second time she has did this in 10 days. I didn’t think you will get any answer.

 

[dianaiad]

No. I’ve never played the persecution card. Never as a Mormon and never as a Catholic.

You were the one who was initially insulted because some people said that the celestial rooms in temples look like nice hotel lobbies. You played that card first.

Who, exactly, is currently ‘out to get’ you?

The same folks who are ‘out to get’ you.

…and your complete disregard of the examples I gave of my experiences is rather telling.

 

[LivingWaters7]

This is the second time she has did this in 10 days. I didn’t think you will get any answer.

I don’t think so either. It’s very telling when she insists on inventing these straw man arguments.

 

[iepuras]

The same folks who are ‘out to get’ you.

…and your complete disregard of the examples I gave of my experiences is rather telling.

I don’t think anyone is ‘out to get’ me. Please, tell me who they are so I can watch out for them too.

I didn’t disregard your personal experiences. Those are your experiences.

So which store kicked out your children simply for being Mormon? I’ll make sure I don’t shop there since I don’t want to support a store that throws people out purely on the basis of religion. Which companies refused to hire you simply because of your religion? I’ll make sure I don’t go work there.

Throwing rocks at anyone is terrible. When did this happen exactly and where? I’ll make sure to avoid that place.

Again, who, exactly, is out to get you?

 

[RebeccaJ]

You should move to Utah Diana, where playing the Mormon card is how you get a job. I was in a meeting once discussing hiring new staff where the people (all Mormons but me) in the meeting said point blank they were looking for a member (Mormon) from out of state who wanted to move back to Utah. It’s pretty much well known that small Utah towns favor hiring LDS teachers. Heck, the districts align school boundaries to ward boundaries because we wouldn’t want the poor Mormon kids to have the stress of making friends outside of their ward. An awesome place to live, if you’re Mormon.