Mormon trinity

[valient_Lucy]

:

When I was LDS, I was taught that I would have my own world and I would have to send my son to save it.

Now granted, I left the Church in 1989, so teachings might have changed since then

Did you have to tell your oldest son that he was going to die on the cross like Jesus did?:bigyikes:

 

[MelanieAnne]

:

Did you have to tell your oldest son that he was going to die on the cross like Jesus did?:bigyikes:

I’ve personally heard Missionairies of the Mormon faith tell me that, not their son, but they themselves, would need to do that. I guess it’s up in the air who has to be the “God” and who has to be the “Son” in these new worlds. And of course, the whole “Gods of your own world” seems to be changing in Mormonsim anyway.

Did they, who told me this, understand their faith accurately? I don’t know, but that’s what they said. They thought that they would, at some point, experience being crucified.

We would be better served to concentrate on the TRUTH.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I’ve personally heard Missionairies of the Mormon faith tell me that, not their son, but they themselves, would need to do that. I guess it’s up in the air who has to be the “God” and who has to be the “Son” in these new worlds. And of course, the whole “Gods of your own world” seems to be changing in Mormonsim anyway.

Did they, who told me this, understand their faith accurately? I don’t know, but that’s what they said. They thought that they would, at some point, experience being crucified.

We would be better served to concentrate on the TRUTH.

Yes. The truth. Awesome, isn’t it?

 

[MelanieAnne]

Yes. The truth. Awesome, isn’t it?

I love to quote Father Corapi on the subject of truth. I’ve quoted it elsewhere, but I’ll do so here as well. Father Corapi is a faithful companion for me, as you can see in my sig.

"Truth, in its essence, is not a someTHING, it is a someBody. His name is Jesus Christ.

When Truth is called a lie, the lights go out, darkness falls, and if your light is darkness, how very deep will the darkness be."

Truth is light. Truth is also simple, because Jesus made things simple so that everyone could understand. We need not “overthink” things. Even if we have all kinds of education. Jesus was talking to EVERYONE not just to the educated, not to people who might think they need to read some special meaning into His words. When it came to the really important things, Jesus was always very straightforward.

We just need to take Jesus at His word. As long as we do that, we’ll be all set. Because Jesus said what He meant and meant what He said.

 

[lax16]

I love to quote Father Corapi on the subject of truth. I’ve quoted it elsewhere, but I’ll do so here as well. Father Corapi is a faithful companion for me, as you can see in my sig.

"Truth, in its essence, is not a someTHING, it is a someBody. His name is Jesus Christ.

When Truth is called a lie, the lights go out, darkness falls, and if your light is darkness, how very deep will the darkness be."

Truth is light. Truth is also simple, because Jesus made things simple so that everyone could understand. We need not “overthink” things. Even if we have all kinds of education. Jesus was talking to EVERYONE not just to the educated, not to people who might think they need to read some special meaning into His words. When it came to the really important things, Jesus was always very straightforward.

We just need to take Jesus at His word. As long as we do that, we’ll be all set. Because Jesus said what He meant and meant what He said.

MelanieAnne - That is so true. Thank you for the inspiring words and the reminder of how we can live in the light of Jesus if we let His light shine on us.

I also like to think of the great Saints and Minds of the Catholic Church that range from the very simple and humble to the very brilliant and strong. From St. Francis to St. Athanasius…it is such a rich spectrum of inspiration and intellect!

I really like Fr. Corapi although I don’t get to hear him as often as I’d like. Do you listen to him on the radio or do you have his tapes?

 

[MelanieAnne]

MelanieAnne - That is so true. Thank you for the inspiring words and the reminder of how we can live in the light of Jesus if we let His light shine on us.

I also like to think of the great Saints and Minds of the Catholic Church that range from the very simple and humble to the very brilliant and strong. From St. Francis to St. Athanasius…it is such a rich spectrum of inspiration and intellect!

I really like Fr. Corapi although I don’t get to hear him as often as I’d like. Do you listen to him on the radio or do you have his tapes?

I record everything of Father Corapi broadcast on EWTN. Even when I’ve seen something before (unless it was YESTERDAY!) I listen again. You can’t go wrong with Father Corapi! I guess I’m lucky I have access to EWTN!

Fr. Corapi is a brilliant man, although you’d never know it if you simply asked him to tell you because he gives new meaning to “humble”. He’s a great speaker, a great source of information, but only if you want to know the Truth. If “cafeteria Catholic” is more your style, Fr. Corapi is NOT for you!

(Lax, I’m sure that last bit doesn’t apply to you, so that was for all the others, even those I don’t know anything about, that may read that part!)

 

[lax16]

I record everything of Father Corapi broadcast on EWTN. Even when I’ve seen something before (unless it was YESTERDAY!) I listen again. You can’t go wrong with Father Corapi! I guess I’m lucky I have access to EWTN!

Fr. Corapi is a brilliant man, although you’d never know it if you simply asked him to tell you because he gives new meaning to “humble”. He’s a great speaker, a great source of information, but only if you want to know the Truth. If “cafeteria Catholic” is more your style, Fr. Corapi is NOT for you!

(Lax, I’m sure that last bit doesn’t apply to you, so that was for all the others, even those I don’t know anything about, that may read that part!)

Oh he’s on EWTN, too? I will have to find out what time he is on in our area. I am not a TV watcher but would make an exception for a well-needed “kick in the pants” by Fr. Corapi!

 

[MelanieAnne]

Oh he’s on EWTN, too? I will have to find out what time he is on in our area. I am not a TV watcher but would make an exception for a well-needed “kick in the pants” by Fr. Corapi!

I’m not much of a “TV watcher” either. People I know think I’m sort of weird because of all the shows I have NEVER watched. But Father Corapi? Every chance I get!

Do you know his story?

 

[lax16]

I’m not much of a “TV watcher” either. People I know think I’m sort of weird because of all the shows I have NEVER watched. But Father Corapi? Every chance I get!

Do you know his story?

I have heard him about half a dozen times on Immaculate Heart Radio and know a little bit about his life.

I heard him speak of his past as an athlete, marine, and as a business person - but I am sure by watching him in person I will get to know him better.

How often is he on?

 

[MelanieAnne]

I have heard him about half a dozen times on Immaculate Heart Radio and know a little bit about his life.

I heard him speak of his past as an athlete, marine, and as a business person - but I am sure by watching him in person I will get to know him better.

How often is he on?

Fr. Corapi is on EWTN a LOT. I would do a search on “Corapi” and see what comes up.

He was a fabulously successful professional in Los Angeles years ago. He was also a drug addict. Cocaine, mostly, from what I have heard him say. I’ve heard “cocaine” is God’s way of telling you that you are making too much money and I imagine Fr. Corapi might agree.

He talks about how his Mother prayed for him throughout that time, and how at one time she simply asked him to pray one “Hail Mary” a day, which he had to read off the card she sent him because he had forgotten the prayer, despite being raised as a Catholic and going to Catholic school all his life.

And from there, he worked his way back to the faith and, finally, into the priesthood. Now he is one of the most acclaimed speakers for the faith around.

His story of “re-conversion” is remarkable. He is a fantastic speaker, he is able to communicate the faith in ways that are simple and straightforward. He just “makes sense” to me. I (obviously!) recommend him!

 

[SirThomasMore]

I was at a conference where Fr. Corapi gave Mass and was able to take the Eucharist from him. He has a gift for getting to the heart of the matter

 

[barnesms]

I no longer have all my LDS stuff…and not sure if there are references to everything I was taught. I cannot believe you were never taught this. I DO understand, however, why you weould deny it.

You answer does not surprise. If you did a search of about your answer you will not find it in any LDS publication, LDS doctrine, etc. It is an unknown doctrine to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

It sounds more like an…embellishment rather than an actual statement made by any LDS. This kind of “story” has nothing to do with reality, but is fodder for anti-Mormons. Catholics suffer from the same types of stories about their faith. Interesting.

 

[barnesms]

Apparently he has not studied RLDS (now called Community of Christ)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_of_Christ

They are pretty well mainstream nowadays. Even their understanding of the BoM is vastly different than the of LDS church.

It appears that the CoC is working its way into a position to accept refugees from the CoJCoLDS. Of course, we would prefer that they join the Catholic Church, but for some it may seem to be the better alternative.

I have an aunt and uncle who are members of the Community of Christ. They were never LDS; she was brought up a member of the RLDS church and then my uncle, a Baptist, converted. They report to number about 250,000 members down from 650,000 just a few years ago. They seem to be losing members over the ordaining of women and homosexuals to the priesthood. Their prophet before their current prophet removed himself from the position of prophet for immoral reasons. Their doctrine has become much closer to Protestantism than anything else. If you look at their site, you will notice that they are very active in praying for peace throughout the world.

 

[SirThomasMore]

You answer does not surprise. If you did a search of about your answer you will not find it in any LDS publication, LDS doctrine, etc. It is an unknown doctrine to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

It sounds more like an…embellishment rather than an actual statement made by any LDS. This kind of “story” has nothing to do with reality, but is fodder for anti-Mormons. Catholics suffer from the same types of stories about their faith. Interesting.

How very odd. Anyone who disagrees with you or has different information than you, or has different answers to prayers than you is lying.

What a wonderful way to go thru life, always being right and everyone else always lying.

Well, I have neither lied or embellished. Just as I do not embellish when I say that when I went to the temple, Catholic Priests were portrayed as agents of Satan, and that we all took blood oaths. Just as I do not embellish when I say that when I went to the temple, women were ordered to always submit to their husbands. Just as I do not embellish or lie when I say that anything from my past as a Mormon.

I believe that you KNOW it was taught and, as the LDS Church continues to whitewash its past, so do you.

 

[barnesms]

I’ve personally heard Missionairies of the Mormon faith tell me that, not their son, but they themselves, would need to do that. I guess it’s up in the air who has to be the “God” and who has to be the “Son” in these new worlds. And of course, the whole “Gods of your own world” seems to be changing in Mormonsim anyway.

Did they, who told me this, understand their faith accurately? I don’t know, but that’s what they said. They thought that they would, at some point, experience being crucified.

We would be better served to concentrate on the TRUTH.

I would appreciate both of you showing me anything that substantiates these claims. It is not doctrinal, but conflicts with doctrine. The LDS Church clearly teaches that there is one Savior for the entire universe and Jesus the Christ was his name. There would never be a need for another.

I agree completely with you; focus on truth.

The doctrine on Theosis or exaltation is not changing. It is also the doctrine of the Catholic Church as taught by the Catechism:

460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”

Question: Critics often accuse LDS of being polytheistic because the term ‘gods’ is used. Given that the Catechism uses the exact same term, Catholics would also be polytheists. Interesting. Of course, if it is false, which I assume you will confirm, then it is about time that the silly claim about LDS being polytheists is dropped on this web site.

 

[SirThomasMore]

I would appreciate both of you showing me anything that substantiates these claims. It is not doctrinal, but conflicts with doctrine. The LDS Church clearly teaches that there is one Savior for the entire universe and Jesus the Christ was his name. There would never be a need for another.

I agree completely with you; focus on truth.

Again, how odd. Several of use remember being taught the same thing or hearing from LDS that they were taught the same thing, and every one of us is lying and you are the only one who is correct.

How strange.

 

[barnesms]

Again, how odd. Several of use remember being taught the same thing or hearing from LDS that they were taught the same thing, and every one of us is lying and you are the only one who is correct.

How strange.

No, that would be a twisting of my words. TWO have stated the same thing and neither of you have provided any substantiation for your claims…THAT IS WHAT IS STRANGE. If it were a doctrine, surely one so learned as you would just be able to immediately quote it. Unfortuantely, instead of proof, we get nothing but mockery and ridicule. This is simple, stop with the diatribe and provide a reference. If you can’t, just say so and then stop.

 

[SirThomasMore]

If you actually read the thread, you would know that more than 2 of us were taught, or heard, the same thing. To demand proof of something taught is another of your red herrings. I was taught lessons from my grandfather about life. I have no written proof of those. Does that mean they did not happen? Absolutely not. So, no, I will never stop proclaiming the truth, no matter how badly you need and want me to.

 

[valient_Lucy]

I’ve personally heard Missionairies of the Mormon faith tell me that, not their son, but they themselves, would need to do that. I guess it’s up in the air who has to be the “God” and who has to be the “Son” in these new worlds. And of course, the whole “Gods of your own world” seems to be changing in Mormonsim anyway.

Did they, who told me this, understand their faith accurately? I don’t know, but that’s what they said. They thought that they would, at some point, experience being crucified.

We would be better served to concentrate on the TRUTH.

That is horrifying! :bigyikes:

 

[lax16]

The doctrine on Theosis or exaltation is not changing. It is also the doctrine of the Catholic Church as taught by the Catechism:

460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods."

Question: Critics often accuse LDS of being polytheistic because the term ‘gods’ is used. Given that the Catechism uses the exact same term, Catholics would also be polytheists. Interesting. Of course, if it is false, which I assume you will confirm, then it is about time that the silly claim about LDS being polytheists is dropped on this web site.

barnes - Here is an edited commentary on the CCC 460:

Musings on Theosis or Divinization: “God became man so that man might become a god”

The Early Church had many battles with those who deny Jesus’ divinity. Because they defended His divinity they had the chance to meditate on what it means for the Logos to become man. One of the great riches that came from their meditations was the teaching that

“God became man so that man might become a god.” (cf. St. Athanasius, De Incarnatione or On the Incarnation 54:3, PG 25:192B; also Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 460)

This may sound weird at first because Christianity is a monotheistic religion and this means that there can be no other God than the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob:

“Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God, the Lord alone!” (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Both the Christians and the heretics held to this doctrine in the early days of the Church. The Christians wanted to pass on the apostolic tradition that the Logos was God and became flesh (John 1:1,14) and at the same time keep the doctrine that there is only one God. The heretics tried to limit mystery and couldn’t understand how there can be three Persons in one God. They put a lot of effort in trying to understand the relationship between God and Jesus Christ while, like the faithful Christians, keeping the doctrine that there is only one God. This led them to assert many erroneous views such as Jesus being a creature or that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are only “modes” of the one true God. By the power of the Holy Spirit, the Church has faithfully kept the apostolic faith that there are three Persons in one God and rejected the heretics’ erroneous views.

**Because the Church Fathers believed that the Logos became flesh, this means that the **nature of God and the nature of man are united in one Person. What does this imply? **One ****of the answers is that man can be divinized **(cf. 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 3:1-3). **This does not ****mean that man’s nature changes into the nature of God. This simply means that ****man can partake in the divine nature of God. **This has been a consistent teaching of the Fathers and even St. Thomas Aquinas. According to Aquinas, the Son is the Eternal Wisdom and “man is perfected in wisdom (which is his proper perfection, as he is rational) by participating [in] the Word of God” (ST III, q. 3. a. 8) and that the reason for the Incarnation is for

"the full participation of the Divinity, which is the true bliss of man and end of human life; and this is bestowed upon us by Christ’s humanity; for Augustine says in a sermon (xiii de Temp): ‘God was made man, that man might be made God’ " (ST III, q. 1 a. 2).

Based on this commentary, it is evident that Mormons and Catholics do not see this use of “gods” the same. We do not believe, nor have we ever taught, that we will become gods of our own world. Or are you saying that Mormons agree with the CCC definition?

It is necessary to read the writings of St. Augustine, Aquinas, Athanasius etc to understand the meanings of many concepts in Catholicism, or at least refer to commentary.