Mormon Worldview

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mtolympus said:
How many times should God tell us something? These two times are related and very important. The scripture in Genesis is refering to Jacob’s covenant with God in which tithing is part of the covenant. This is the covenant where God becomes the God of Jacob (Isreal.) “then shall the Lord be my God.” (Genesis 28:20-21)

Everyone who reads Malachi chapters 3 and 4 should understand that he is prophecying about the time shortly before the “great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Mal 4:5) or in other words the Lord’s second coming. Malachi tells us that the “sons of Jacob” must return to the ordinances of the Lord. “Retun to me, and I will return to you, saith the Lord of hosts.” But ye said, Wherein shall we return? (Malachi 3:6-7) This sets up the context to understand the next verse on tithing.

“Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Bring the tithes into the storehouse…” (Malachi 3:8-9)
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Malachi is a Messianic prophecy, which has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

The OT laws regarding tithing belong to the 613 Mitzvot. Jesus fulfilled the law, our covenant is in, through and with Him. Jesus taught to care for the poor and widowed. St. Paul taught to provide for the needs of the church. How much is never prescribed. We are to give prudently, without caring more for ourselves than we do for others. It is up to the person’s ability and conscience. People can care for others via non-monetary means.
 
mtolympus said:
KathleenGee;8984072:
I don’t think I could afford to be a Mormon. Having a family in these times is hard vs a single or affluent couple. The 10% tithing is mentioned twice in OT.
How many times should God tell us something? These two times are related and very important. The scripture in Genesis is refering to Jacob’s covenant with God in which tithing is part of the covenant. This is the covenant where God becomes the God of Jacob (Isreal.)
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“then shall the Lord be my God.” (Genesis 28:20-21)

Everyone who reads Malachi chapters 3 and 4 should understand that he is prophecying about the time shortly before the “great and dreadful day of the Lord” (Mal 4:5) or in other words the Lord’s second coming. Malachi tells us that the “sons of Jacob” must return to the ordinances of the Lord. “Retun to me, and I will return to you, saith the Lord of hosts.” But ye said, Wherein shall we return? (Malachi 3:6-7) This sets up the context to understand the next verse on tithing.

“Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Bring the tithes into the storehouse…” (Malachi 3:8-9)

I have asked this several times:

Please show me in NT where tithing was commanded. Next, show me in OT where tithing was used to force members to build their prophet a home that could be used as a hotel to sell booze.
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TexanKnight said:
I have asked this several times:

Please show me in NT where tithing was commanded. Next, show me in OT where tithing was used to force members to build their prophet a home that could be used as a hotel to sell booze.
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Yeah, it as was a produce/animal tax, under Judaic law. Given to the Levite priests for their food needs and sacrifies or given to the poor so they didn’t go hungry. LDS have an idea about tithing that is all their own, the only thing Biblical about it is that it was given. Catholics are taught to give, at every single Mass, via all our ministries, Smith had a propensity to look at what Christian churches do, and try to one up it, just to say he “restored” something.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Yeah, it as was a produce/animal tax, under Judaic law. Given to the Levite priests for their food needs and sacrifies or given to the poor so they didn’t go hungry. LDS have an idea about tithing that is all their own, the only thing Biblical about it is that it was given. Catholics are taught to give, at every single Mass, via all our ministries, Smith had a propensity to look at what Christian churches do, and try to one up it, just to say he “restored” something.
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He needed tithing in order to get his houses built and army furnished
 
TexanKnight said:
He needed tithing in order to get his houses built and army furnished
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Yes but it wasn’t compulsory with eternal threats to it until Lorenzo Snow, at a time when the LDS church had lost its assets. Now it is a multi-billion dollar corporation, still requiring people pay who are not able. But, I read from enough LDS members that ten percent has a loose translation…ten percent of surplus. Very few people have surplus income, so it is parallel to Catholics, where the poor aren’t required to give money. There are other ways to give.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Malachi is a Messianic prophecy, which has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ.

The OT laws regarding tithing belong to the 613 Mitzvot. Jesus fulfilled the law, our covenant is in, through and with Him. Jesus taught to care for the poor and widowed. St. Paul taught to provide for the needs of the church. How much is never prescribed. We are to give prudently, without caring more for ourselves than we do for others. It is up to the person’s ability and conscience. People can care for others via non-monetary means.
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Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses which was the lesser law given to the children of Israel to prepare them for Christ. The covenants God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob preceeded the Law of Moses and are still in effect. Those who are baptised into Christ become Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:26-27) Obviously this promise is still in effect even though it came from the Old Testament. Malchi Chapters 3 and 4 tells us of the time shortly before the “great and dreadful day of the Lord” or in other words the second coming of Christ. “Return unto me, and I will return unto you saith the Lord of Hosts” (Mal 3:7)
 
mtolympus said:
Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses which was the lesser law given to the children of Israel to prepare them for Christ. The covenants God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob preceeded the Law of Moses and are still in effect. Those who are baptised into Christ become Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:26-27) Obviously this promise is still in effect even though it came from the Old Testament. Malchi Chapters 3 and 4 tells us of the time shortly before the “great and dreadful day of the Lord” or in other words the second coming of Christ. “Return unto me, and I will return unto you saith the Lord of Hosts” (Mal 3:7)
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Like I have asked many, many times…and please stop dodging…show me where it is a commandment in the NT. Show me where Jesus paid it. Show me where it was ordered in the OT so that leaders could have the people build them a house that could be turned into a hotel to sell booze
 
mtolympus said:
How many times should God tell us something? …
“Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings. Bring the tithes into the storehouse…” (Malachi 3:8-9)
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All of this presupposes that the Mormon church is owed any tithe at all, and that in turn presupposes that God is incapable of accomplishing His will of allowing all men to come to knowledge of the truth and that God’s failure resulted in an apostasy which necessitated the establishment of the Mormon church.

I do not believe that God is a failure, therefore I am not a Mormon.
 
mtolympus said:
Jesus fulfilled the Law of Moses which was the lesser law given to the children of Israel to prepare them for Christ. The covenants God made with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob preceeded the Law of Moses and are still in effect. Those who are baptised into Christ become Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise. (Gal. 3:26-27) Obviously this promise is still in effect even though it came from the Old Testament. Malchi Chapters 3 and 4 tells us of the time shortly before the “great and dreadful day of the Lord” or in other words the second coming of Christ. “Return unto me, and I will return unto you saith the Lord of Hosts” (Mal 3:7)
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Malachi is fulfilled, I don’t know why any Christian would believe it isn’t. 🤷 Jesus himself says it is.

The “law and the prophets” is a name for the Hebrew scriptures, aka the OT. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. The Abrahamic covenant is in effect Jews. We are baptized into the Kingdom of God, this doesn’t make a Jewish, this makes a Christian.
 
Sorry for going off topic but I’ve never received an adequate response to this question.
Janderich said:
Thus we place great importance on remaining faithful while dealing with both the opportunities and challenges of a physical body. Joseph Smith said, "We came to this earth that we might have a body and present it pure before God in the celestial kingdom. The great principle of happiness consists in having a body.” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, sel. Joseph Fielding Smith [1976], 181).
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How does the Holy Spirit fit into Joseph Smith’s understanding of happiness?
 
TexanKnight said:
Like I have asked many, many times…and please stop dodging…show me where it is a commandment in the NT. Show me where Jesus paid it. Show me where it was ordered in the OT so that leaders could have the people build them a house that could be turned into a hotel to sell booze
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Sorry, I didn’t know it was my responsiblity to answer your questions. Tithing is not mentioned in the New Testament, they had all things in common which is a higher law than tithing. Nevertheless, tithing is mentioned in Malachi which prophecies of the time just before the Second Coming of Christ. Malachi tells us what we need to do to prepare for the Second coming of the Lord. One of these things is to pay tithing.
 
Cat_Herder said:
All of this presupposes that the Mormon church is owed any tithe at all, and that in turn presupposes that God is incapable of accomplishing His will of allowing all men to come to knowledge of the truth and that God’s failure resulted in an apostasy which necessitated the establishment of the Mormon church.
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God in not a failure but I guess he does what is necessary.
Cat_Herder said:
I do not believe that God is a failure, therefore I am not a Mormon.
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That’s fine, you can pay tithing to the Catholic church if that is what you believe.
 
mtolympus said:
Sorry, I didn’t know it was my responsiblity to answer your questions.

It was an open challenge to Mormons. You were just the latest to dodge me.

Tithing is not mentioned in the New Testament

Exactly. You would think that if it was still a rule, Jesus woulda said something about it, or done it Himself, or the Apostles woulda…after all, the Bible DOES mention Jesus paying His taxes…

they had all things in common which is a higher law than tithing.

Prove it

Nevertheless, tithing is mentioned in Malachi which prophecies of the time just before the Second Coming of Christ. Malachi tells us what we need to do to prepare for the Second coming of the Lord. One of these things is to pay tithing.

Thank you for proving that the tithing in Malachi was OT and no longer a requirement. And thanks for dodging the point about Joseph using tithing to force his people to build him a house and sell booze.
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mtolympus said:
God in not a failure but I guess he does what is necessary.
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Necessary to what? This?
[BIBLEDRB]1 Tim 2:3-4[/BIBLEDRB]

Would it not be necessary to His will, as stated here, that there be a means for all men to come to knowledge of the truth? If that means was Joseph Smith, since he didn’t come along until the 19th century, wouldn’t that necessarily mean that everyone from the alleged apostasy to Smith–a 1,000+ year period–would necessarily not have any means of coming to knowledge of the truth and therefore God would have failed in accomplishing His will?

God is not a failure.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Malachi is fulfilled, I don’t know why any Christian would believe it isn’t. 🤷 Jesus himself says it is.

The “law and the prophets” is a name for the Hebrew scriptures, aka the OT. Jesus is the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. The Abrahamic covenant is in effect Jews. We are baptized into the Kingdom of God, this doesn’t make a Jewish, this makes a Christian.
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Jesus was the one that made the covenants with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So when we are baptised into Christ we enter the same covenant that Jesus made with them. That is that He will be our God. Read Galations 3:27-29. “And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal 3:29)
 
mtolympus said:
Jesus was the one that made the covenants with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. So when we are baptised into Christ we enter the same covenant that Jesus made with them. That is that He will be our God. Read Galations 3:27-29. “And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.” (Gal 3:29)
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There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant, heirs according to the promise.

…adopted heirs. We enter into the new and everlasting covenant, who is Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the covenant with Abraham, this doesn’t abrogate it, it fulfills it.

Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
 
So Cultist admitted that their prophets are not really prophets and mtolympus has admitted tithing is not a NT command and, by his dodging, has admitted Joseph abused the concept.

Seems to be our prayers are working.

Keep Praying!!!
 
RebeccaJ said:
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendant, heirs according to the promise.

…adopted heirs. We enter into the new and everlasting covenant, who is Jesus Christ. Jesus fulfilled the covenant with Abraham, this doesn’t abrogate it, it fulfills it.

Matt 5:17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
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Yes, so why do you continue to insist that the covenants of the Old Testament have been abolished? Whether we are Jew or Gentile, male or female through baptism into the Church of Christ we are all adopted into the Abrahamic covenant and also the covenant made with Jacob (Israel). These covenants are in effect through the fulfillment of Christ. He did not abolish them!
 
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