Mormonism lack of evidence.

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“…And thus all of CAF joined in The Great Pun War of 2016, causing much groaning and rolling of eyes toward the heavens.”

-Book of Jokes, Chapter 1 Verse 20
 
StGeorgesSquire said:
“…And thus all of CAF joined in The Great Pun War of 2016, causing much groaning and rolling of eyes toward the heavens.”

-Book of Jokes, Chapter 1 Verse 20
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I have always loved puns, even though everyone around me groaned at their voicing and I stifled my reaction. Now I have been blessed with a daughter, a teenager now, who loves them as much as I do. We celebrate all the great puns we hear with “aaahhh” “jazz hands” followed up with a double high five where we tap/drum our fingers together. Life is good, and funny, and warm, and fuzzy, and rewarding!!
 
jane_doe said:
I feel more comfortable and feel that higher quality dialogue happens in a 1 on 1 setting.
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This to me speaks of a desire to proselytize. Or speaks of fear of not being able to defend your belief.

I came to CAF because of it’s robust forum activity. I have a large group of Catholic friends I can discuss my faith with 1 on 1. Here I have an opportunity to learn & discuss from Catholics all over the world, and from non-Catholics that I may never have a chance to meet.
 
Horton said:
This to me speaks of a desire to proselytize. Or speaks of fear of not being able to defend your belief.
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🤷 If you choose not to believe my answer to your question and prefer some other, that’s your choice.
 
jane_doe said:
This is a series of questions actually. I’ll answer them, but I’m going to keep my answers brief— I do not wish to offend any of my Catholic hosts here, anger the mods, or start arguments. If you want a more thorough answer, feel free to PM me and I’ll give you my personal email for communicating.

Why do I not accept the Catholic claims of being the one True church? Because upon thorough investigation of the Catholic church, her beliefs, and her claims, I find them to be false. The same answer applies for creedal Christianity in general.

Why am I am member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints? Because upon thorough investigation of the LDS church, her beliefs, and her claims, I find them to be True.
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Your answers are brief, for sure, but perhaps a little too brief? Could you elaborate just a bit? Not that I have a dog in this fight, but I am curious.
 
jane_doe said:
🤷 If you choose not to believe my answer to your question and prefer some other, that’s your choice.
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Then why post at all? I am in no way saying you are not welcome on CAF nor am I saying you shouldn’t be here but…why? You made a claim that you believe the Catholic Church to be false and the LDS to be true. Why? What specifically did you investigate about the Catholic Church to be able to declare it false? What specifically is true for you of the LDS? I don’t think these are unreasonable questions nor are they out of line per forum rules.
 
Horton said:
Then why post at all? I am in no way saying you are not welcome on CAF nor am I saying you shouldn’t be here but…why? You made a claim that you believe the Catholic Church to be false and the LDS to be true. Why? What specifically did you investigate about the Catholic Church to be able to declare it false? What specifically is true for you of the LDS? I don’t think these are unreasonable questions nor are they out of line per forum rules.
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Horton, I am uninterested in this conversation. I know you don’t understand that, but you’re just going to have to accept it.
 
Horton said:
This to me speaks of a desire to proselytize. Or speaks of fear of not being able to defend your belief.
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A Mormons testimony is their empirical evidence. If you can’t rationally defend your testimony, one would prefer not to talk about it.
 
jane_doe said:
Horton, I am uninterested in this conversation. I know you don’t understand that, but you’re just going to have to accept it.
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It’s not a matter of comprehension, which is another tactic of the LDS, “you just don’t understand, go pray for God to enlighten you”, it’s a matter you come to a Catholic forum and tell us our faith is false and then refuse to elaborate.

But never mind. I understand you can’t answer the questions here.
 
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Horton:
Then why post at all? I am in no way saying you are not welcome on CAF nor am I saying you shouldn’t be here but…why? You made a claim that you believe the Catholic Church to be false and the LDS to be true. Why? What specifically did you investigate about the Catholic Church to be able to declare it false? What specifically is true for you of the LDS? I don’t think these are unreasonable questions nor are they out of line per forum rules.
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This is pretty much the basics of debate: you are more than welcome to have your own thoughts and it is wise to have facts backing them up. Anything else besides that become opinions that are emotionally charged (which then logic flies straight out the window.)

You can say “I don’t know,” or “Let me look that up.”. These statements show a sense of humility which is okay.
 
StGeorgesSquire said:
This is pretty much the basics of debate: you are more than welcome to have your own thoughts and it is wise to have facts backing them up. Anything else besides that become opinions that are emotionally charged (which then logic flies straight out the window.)

You can say “I don’t know,” or “Let me look that up.”. These statements show a sense of humility which is okay.
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Exactly. If one makes a claim, one should be able and willing to back it up. Regardless if the claim is true or not. Our beliefs and opinions do not ( or shouldn’t ) form in a bubble. One should be able to say why their opinion is what it is.

If I give my opinion or make a claim, I am prepared to support it.
 
Horton said:
Exactly. If one makes a claim, one should be able and willing to back it up. Regardless if the claim is true or not. Our beliefs and opinions do not ( or shouldn’t ) form in a bubble. One should be able to say why their opinion is what it is.

If I give my opinion or make a claim, I am prepared to support it.
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👍
 
jane_doe said:
This is a series of questions actually. I’ll answer them, but I’m going to keep my answers brief— I do not wish to offend any of my Catholic hosts here, anger the mods, or start arguments. If you want a more thorough answer, feel free to PM me and I’ll give you my personal email for communicating.

Why do I not accept the Catholic claims of being the one True church? Because upon thorough investigation of the Catholic church, her beliefs, and her claims, I find them to be false. The same answer applies for creedal Christianity in general.

Why am I am member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day saints? Because upon thorough investigation of the LDS church, her beliefs, and her claims, I find them to be True.
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Well obviously your investigations were not through enough because the evidence seems to point to “creedal Christianity” and not to Mormonism.

When you make a claim, you have to have some kind of evidence for that claim. Especially if that claim is contradicted by other evidence then you have to find evidence to justifiably contradict what already contradicts your claims. Mormonism fails to do that in every way possible. Basically, Mormonism is like someone saying that Unicorns exist. Okay… evidence points in the other direction but what is your evidence they do exist? There is none. We can assume it’s probably false then especially when other evidence tells us it is false. That is Mormonism in a nutshell.

Also, just to note: I am not arguing evidence has to be scientific. Only a hardcore materialist would argue that. The definition of evidence is: the available body of facts or information indicating whether a belief or proposition is true or valid. When looking for a scientific explanation to something you have to use scientific evidence. When looking for a logical explanation you have to use logical deductions and conditions which you could call “evidence.” When looking for a historical explanation you have to use historical evidence. Things such as the resurrection, to us in the present at least, fall mostly within history and need historical evidence to back it up (the resurrection falls outside of scientific examination but is not anti-scientific such as creationism would be) there seems to be a lot of evidence to back up the resurrection. The tale’s in the Book of Mormon also mostly fall into history and therefore need historical evidence. However, there seems to be none and the evidence we do have paints a much different picture than what the Book of Mormon says.
 
Horton said:
Then why post at all? I am in no way saying you are not welcome on CAF nor am I saying you shouldn’t be here but…why? You made a claim that you believe the Catholic Church to be false and the LDS to be true. Why? What specifically did you investigate about the Catholic Church to be able to declare it false? What specifically is true for you of the LDS? I don’t think these are unreasonable questions nor are they out of line per forum rules.
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Not to pick on Jane Doe, but just observe, that she never engages in discussions that entail rational thought, but rather will always dismiss them as uninteresting.

It’s irrational to expect a rational discussion from someone who doesn’t have an interest in rational discussion. 😃 Blood from a turnip, kind of deal.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Not to pick on Jane Doe, but just observe, that she never engages in discussions that entail rational thought, but rather will always dismiss them as uninteresting.

It’s irrational to expect a rational discussion from someone who doesn’t have an interest in rational discussion. 😃 Blood from a turnip, kind of deal.
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Maybe my attitude of avoiding personal conversation on the public board has something to do with “loving” “rational” comments like this, that really “help” promote my understanding that Catholics are disciples of Christ 🤷
 
jane_doe said:
Maybe my attitude of avoiding personal conversation on the public board has something to do with “loving” “rational” comments like this, that really “help” promote my understanding that Catholics are disciples of Christ 🤷
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Stating an observation is not unchristian. It stating an observation. We also believe in the Spiritual Works of Mercy described here: usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/how-we-teach/new-evangelization/jubilee-of-mercy/the-spiritual-works-of-mercy.cfm
So yes, we are Christians when we attempt to correct flawed ideas of what we believe.

I have to wonder what would happen if I went to an LDS forum and stated my belief that LDS is a false religion and then refused to back up my reasoning?
 
jane_doe said:
Maybe my attitude of avoiding personal conversation on the public board has something to do with “loving” “rational” comments like this, that really “help” promote my understanding that Catholics are disciples of Christ 🤷
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🤷 It has been my experience that there are LDS individuals who frequent gatherings of other religions in order to confirm their biases.
 
Not to pick on Jane Doe, but just observe, that she never engages in discussions that entail rational thought, but rather will always dismiss them as uninteresting.
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It’s irrational to expect a rational discussion from someone who doesn’t have an interest in rational discussion. Blood from a turnip, kind of deal.
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I think you’re right, Rebecca. I PM’ed her telling her we got off on the wrong foot and I apologized if I offended her. I told her I still want to continue the debate so I copied and pasted the argument above to start it off. Guess how she responded?

She told me she was going to block me and basically called me arrogant and prideful because I made my argument…
 
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