Mormonism, Polygamy, and Warren Jeffs

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re: section 132 of the D&C, it can clearly be seen that Smith introduced a marriage rite in the context of polygamy, not monogamy. He introduced (exactly, word for word) a Masonic rite as a marriage rite, in order to give a perception/deception that his extramarital affairs had divine legitimacy.

Polygamy was dropped as a practice long after Smith’s death, but a modified marriage rite continues on to this day as a relic of Smith’s deception.
 
re: section 132 of the D&C, it can clearly be seen that Smith introduced a marriage rite in the context of polygamy, not monogamy. He introduced (exactly, word for word) a Masonic rite as a marriage rite, in order to give a perception/deception that his extramarital affairs had divine legitimacy.
Did you just base your reading on the assumption that freemasons are pligs, or did you just change the subject mid-paragraph?

Again, everlasting i.e. eternal marriage is discussed in section 132 up through verse 33. Monogamous LDS folks today are still living the new and everlasting covenant of marriage.

Polygamy was at one time an option within that covenant. Abandoning that practice didn’t change the covenant, nor did it eliminate existing plural marriages. We just stopped sealing new plural marriages.
 
Did you just base your reading on the assumption that freemasons are pligs, or did you just change the subject mid-paragraph?

Again, everlasting i.e. eternal marriage is discussed in section 132 up through verse 33. Monogamous LDS folks today are still living the new and everlasting covenant of marriage.

Polygamy was at one time an option within that covenant. Abandoning that practice didn’t change the covenant, nor did it eliminate existing plural marriages. We just stopped sealing new plural marriages.
Doesn’t change the fact that Smith introduced the concept of putting marriage at the center of his religion in order to satisfy his own desires, not those of God.

Smith didn’t introduce a marriage rite, and then later polygamy. He introduced them together, as a package. Only LDS since Young’s time have split the two teachings. Young taught that anyone who was not practicing polygamy would not see the celestial kingdom.

You need to keep up on Mormon revisionism, you apparently only know the latest version.

The Masonic rite is linked to polygamy because Smith linked it. Prior to that, it was only an experience for Freemasons who participated in an initiatory ceremony.
 
I invite you to stop plugging for notorious pedophile Warren Jeffs. Remember what Jesus said about people that harm little children? Think about the company you keep. You may hate me, but are you willing to sink so low as to promote Warren Jeffs, just to spite me?
I have never, ever promoted or defended Warren Jeffs. This is a fallacy of your own imagination and an insult I will not soon forget.

You came in late. Did you bother to read the opening post? or post #115? Apparently not.

Jim Dandy
 
I have never, ever promoted or defended Warren Jeffs.
Yes, you did:
Warren Jeffs and his followers were/are living the original teachings of Joseph Smith
That’s his claim to authority. That’s the lie by which he holds women and children hostage to his lusts. And you might as well be his spokesman.
an insult I will not soon forget.
Good. I hope you’ll be more careful about insulting yourself.

But console yourself that at least your religion isn’t being insulted; I’d appreciate if you’d stop insulting mine. It seems uncharitable that Mr. Jeffs should be a cause of such strategic gloating.
 
That’s his claim to authority. That’s the lie by which he holds women and children hostage to his lusts. And you might as well be his spokesman.
Joseph Smith introduced polygamy to the latter-day-saint movement which Jeffs still practices. Yes, it is the lie they use to hold women hostage and you are Smith’s spokesman.
But console yourself that at least your religion isn’t being insulted; I’d appreciate if you’d stop insulting mine. It seems uncharitable that Mr. Jeffs should be a cause of such strategic gloating.
Your religion was insulted by Joseph Smith and Jeffs is a reminder of that insult. It is nice to know that polygamy was condemned by Christ and has always been condemned by his Catholic Church.
 
Would it be too late to suggest that we give the Mormons the benefit of the doubt that they legitimately claim not to practice polygamy while on earth?
 
Jim Dandy said: Warren Jeffs and his followers were/are living the original teachings of Joseph Smith
[what you just said is Warren Jeff’s] claim to authority. That’s the lie by which he holds women and children hostage to his lusts.
Joseph Smith introduced polygamy to the latter-day-saint movement which Jeffs still practices. Yes, it is the lie they use to hold women hostage and you are Smith’s spokesman.
If you realize it’s a lie, and you realize that it’s a lie used for evil, to harm innocents, then why do you keep repeating the lie?

Or was that just bad grammar, and did you mean to say something else?
 
Would it be too late to suggest that we give the Mormons the benefit of the doubt that they legitimately claim not to practice polygamy while on earth?
The Brighamite sect of the Latter-day-saint movement claim they no longer practice polygamy. I believe that claim is true. Joseph Smith was the founder of the latter-day-saint movement and introduced polygamy into it. Some sects of that movement still practice polygamy according to Smith’s revelation. Smith’s revelation called marriage an everlasting covenant which is both eternal and polygamous. LDS who still practice polygamy believe an everlasting covenant would not be everlasting if they changed it like the Brighamites did. We can only speculate why the Brighamites changed an everlasting covenant.
 
Yes, you did:

That’s his claim to authority. That’s the lie by which he holds women and children hostage to his lusts. And you might as well be his spokesman.

Good. I hope you’ll be more careful about insulting yourself.

But console yourself that at least your religion isn’t being insulted; I’d appreciate if you’d stop insulting mine. It seems uncharitable that Mr. Jeffs should be a cause of such strategic gloating.
Mormonism and its practice of polygamy was introduced into the United States by Joseph Smith in 1830. I said Jeffs is following the original (pre-Woodruff Manifesto) teachings of Smith, which is quite true. Joseph’s youngest wife was 14, a mere child. I reject both “Prophet” Jeffs and “Prophet” Smith, occupation glass looker.

And you defend your leader, J Smith, who called the Catholic Church “that great and abominable church, which is the mother of abomitions. . . the church of the devil … the whore of all the earth” in the BoM. It’s certain that you agree with him.

For those of us who have educated ourselves concerning Mormonism – and those who are former Mormons – it’s no sale.

You continue to ignore my questions. Have you read the OP? Post #115? Why do you accept the writings of an “apostate church” as your Scripture? Not that you really believe the Bible, since the Catholic Church allegedly removed “plain and precious things” from it. But darned if you can tell us what those “plain and precious things” are, since Joseph never told anyone, and never replaced them even when he revised the KJV to agree with his new religion. And have you nothing to say regarding my comments about Joseph Smith “writing” the Book of Mormon?

Jim Dandy
 
If you realize it’s a lie, and you realize that it’s a lie used for evil, to harm innocents, then why do you keep repeating the lie?
It is not my lie, it is Joseph Smith’s lie, and it is being repeated by Warren Jeffs. I just find it interesting that you want to call Jeffs’ actions a lie but not Joseph Smith’s.
 
Okay, the Catholic Church never taught polygamy. The Mormon church denounces polygamy today. Can we say that we are starting to see eye to eye on how many people constitute a sacramental marriage?
 
Okay, the Catholic Church never taught polygamy. The Mormon church denounces polygamy today. Can we say that we are starting to see eye to eye on how many people constitute a sacramental marriage?
No we can not. While the LDS church head-quartered in Salt Lake City does not currently allow members to marry polygamously they do not find it to be inherently wrong. The only “objection” the LDS church has against it is that they were told it is now “un-lawful”. The issue of polygamy for them is not one of right or wrong but of allowed or not allowed. The Catholic church teaches that polygamy is an offense against marriage the LDS sees it as a valid form of marriage when allowed. So no they are not even close to seeing eye to eye on what constitutes a sacramental marriage.

ETA:

Also the LDS church has never “denounced” polygamy, from dictionary.com:
de·nounceVerb/diˈnouns/
  1. Publicly declare to be wrong or evil.
  2. Inform against.
They have never declared it wrong or evil, how could they their founder was a polygamist with 33 wives. Nor have I ever seen or heard an LDS member “inform against” polygamy, on the contrary they defend it vigorously here on other boards and in person.
 
No we can not. While the LDS church head-quartered in Salt Lake City does not currently allow members to marry polygamously they do not find it to be inherently wrong. The only “objection” the LDS church has against it is that they were told it is now “un-lawful”. The issue of polygamy for them is not one of right or wrong but of allowed or not allowed. The Catholic church teaches that polygamy is an offense against marriage the LDS sees it as a valid form of marriage when allowed. So no they are not even close to seeing eye to eye on what constitutes a sacramental marriage.
Thought I’d give it a try though.
 
No we can not. While the LDS church head-quartered in Salt Lake City does not currently allow members to marry polygamously they do not find it to be inherently wrong. The only “objection” the LDS church has against it is that they were told it is now “un-lawful”. The issue of polygamy for them is not one of right or wrong but of allowed or not allowed. The Catholic church teaches that polygamy is an offense against marriage the LDS sees it as a valid form of marriage when allowed. So no they are not even close to seeing eye to eye on what constitutes a sacramental marriage.

Also the LDS church has never “denounced” polygamy, from dictionary.com:

They have never declared it wrong or evil, how could they their founder was a polygamist with 33 wives.
Actually, the LDS still practice a form of polygamy (technically polygyny). If an LDS man’s eternal wife dies, he can marry another eternal wife and he now has two eternal wives. In the resurrection he will be eternally - and plurally - married to both of them.

An LDS woman can have only one husband in the eternities. If an LDS woman’s eternal husband dies, she can remarry but only “until death do them part” because she is still married to her eternal (and now deceased) husband.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
 
Actually, the LDS still practice a form of polygamy (technically polygyny). If an LDS man’s eternal wife dies, he can marry another eternal wife and he now has two eternal wives. In the resurrection he will be eternally - and plurally - married to both of them.

An LDS woman can have only one husband in the eternities. If an LDS woman’s eternal husband dies, she can remarry but only “until death do them part” because she is still married to her eternal (and now deceased) husband.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
That was the question I was eventually going to ask. Who would they be married to in the celestial kingdom?
 
Actually, the LDS still practice a form of polygamy (technically polygyny). If an LDS man’s eternal wife dies, he can marry another eternal wife and he now has two eternal wives. In the resurrection he will be eternally - and plurally - married to both of them.
Interesting. You’d have to believe, actually believe, that our marriages are binding beyond death, in order to say that we still practice a form of polygyny. Wouldn’t that make you an heretic in the Catholic Church?
 
Actually, the LDS still practice a form of polygamy (technically polygyny). If an LDS man’s eternal wife dies, he can marry another eternal wife and he now has two eternal wives. In the resurrection he will be eternally - and plurally - married to both of them.

An LDS woman can have only one husband in the eternities. If an LDS woman’s eternal husband dies, she can remarry but only “until death do them part” because she is still married to her eternal (and now deceased) husband.

Paul (formerly LDS, now happily Catholic)
Yes, and if you bring this up LDS will say “we don’t really know how this will work out but no one will have to participate in polygamy if they don’t want too”, waffle waffle, weasel weasel. And a woman can get a sealing cancellation so she can spend eternity with the new “Mr. Right”, LDS eternal life is such a mess!! But more on my point is the fact that you will never find an LDS who agrees that polygamy is an offense against marriage and that it “is not in accord with the moral law”. The two views will never meet, thankfully. Unless of course the LDS church were to actually “crawl over or under or around” their history and denounce polygamy for the offense against marriage and morality that it inherently is.
 
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