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RebeccaJ
Guest
Right, Mormons think fully revealed means they can understand the mysteries of God.
But, Catholic teaching is, God’s plan for humanity is fully revealed in Jesus Christ. God’s plan, is our salvation and eternal life. Mormonism, concocts “new” revelation, that is not found in the full Revelation of Jesus Christ, and calls the innovations and novelty “restoration”.
As already pointed out, they are not the first to claim additional revelation. These types of claims started far early than the 19th century restorationist movements of Mormon, Campbellite, Seventh Day Adventists and their offshoots. St. Paul was cautioning the Galatians against innovations in his time. The Montanist heresy rivals the restorationists and came over a thousand years before.
Some people like novelty and that is what they search for. Some of us see the beauty of continuity, Jesus Christ forever faithful to His Bride.
Stephen168
New member
Again, the Bible does not mean what the Mormon Church and Mormons think it does. Therefore, it is not odd that beliefs made up by Mormon “prophets” are not Christian teachings.
Stephen168
New member
Mormons believe God was once a human being and progressed to being God, so eternal progression means to become God. Christian’s believe we will share in God’s divinity, but we could never become God as Mormon’s believe.
Christians have “a 3 in 1 idea of God.” Mormons have a 3 are 3 idea of God; three persons and three beings. Also because of their belief in internal progression, reason tells us they ultimately believe in many Gods. Christian’s believe in one God.
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campeador
Guest
Luke 20:34-36 clearly contradicts what you say:
Jesus told them, The children of this world marry and are given in marriage; but those who are found worthy to attain that other world, and resurrection from the dead, take neither wife nor husband; mortal no longer, they will be as the angels in heaven are, children of God, now that the resurrection has given them birth.
Stephen168
New member
I agree.
No, Joseph Smith claimed the Book of Mormon was a history of all the American Indians, which means it is not a faith claim but a science claim, therefore science is where the answer can be found. We know from science that Joseph Smith’s claim about the Book of Mormon is false.
But reason can justify NOT joining a religion. Science not supporting Joseph Smith’s science claim about the Book of Mormon is why I could never take Mormonism seriously.
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LivingWaters7
Guest
Truth_Faith13,
I happened to stumble across your thread over on Religious Forums (religiousforums.com/threads/for-lds-only-some-tricky-questions.185065/). This provides some context to understand where you’re coming from.
When you say you are “looking into both”, I’m curious what you mean by that. As you may know, I left Catholicism for Mormonism for a few years, then reverted back to Catholicism. The main reason why I returned to Catholicism was because, despite the things that I loved about being LDS, I simply found no Biblical nor historical support for a total apostasy of Jesus Christ’s Church. Also, many of the things that I liked about Mormonism are actually found right in Catholicism (such as the temple concept). As a Catholic, I love the fact that the continuity of the Church is based on the simple fact that God is always faithful, even when we are not. He doesn’t abandon us, even when we abandon Him. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of perfect saints. Christ is at the head of His Body, and He protects His Body. That idea is so abundantly clear in the Catholic Church, established by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago, here still to this day.
Keep asking your questions here as well as wherever else you desire.
I happened to stumble across your thread over on Religious Forums (religiousforums.com/threads/for-lds-only-some-tricky-questions.185065/). This provides some context to understand where you’re coming from.
When you say you are “looking into both”, I’m curious what you mean by that. As you may know, I left Catholicism for Mormonism for a few years, then reverted back to Catholicism. The main reason why I returned to Catholicism was because, despite the things that I loved about being LDS, I simply found no Biblical nor historical support for a total apostasy of Jesus Christ’s Church. Also, many of the things that I liked about Mormonism are actually found right in Catholicism (such as the temple concept). As a Catholic, I love the fact that the continuity of the Church is based on the simple fact that God is always faithful, even when we are not. He doesn’t abandon us, even when we abandon Him. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of perfect saints. Christ is at the head of His Body, and He protects His Body. That idea is so abundantly clear in the Catholic Church, established by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago, here still to this day.
Keep asking your questions here as well as wherever else you desire.
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AnimaQuaerenti
Guest
Dang! You beat me to it. I heard this reading in Mass today and felt it would serve this thread well.
Mormons worrying about marriage after death is like someone worrying about what happens to our drivers licenses when we die - it’s just utterly nonsensical theology.
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LivingWaters7
Guest
When understanding similarities and/or differences between Catholic and Mormon views, you have to understand that terminology may be the same, but the meaningbehind the words may not be. Also, I’ve noticed that sometimes, on the surface, the beliefs may sound very similar, however when you get under the surface, and understand related beliefs, it’s clear that there really isn’t any equivalence.
A prime illustration of this is whether or not the Persons of the Trinity, specifically God the Son, are eternal. Trinitarians believe that God eternally exists as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They exist in an eternal relationship with each other, a relationship that has never changed.
In contrast, to understand the Mormon view, you must understand a few things. Firstly, Mormonism claims that we are all literal spirit children of heavenly parents (i.e. Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother). This includes God the Son and God the Holy Ghost, we are literal spirit children of Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother, with Jesus being the literal firstborn spirit child. Also, Mormons believe that we all have a core “intelligence” that was never created. It has always existed. It is that intelligence that allows Mormons to claim that they believe that Jesus is eternal (though of course this also means that we are all eternal, as this isn’t a quality unique to Jesus or to Godhood). So, while we are all eternal by virtue of having eternal intelligences, there was some sort of creative/organizing process that occurred in the pre-mortal existence that allows Mormons to be able to claim that we are all literal spirit sons and daughters of loving heavenly parents, including the Son and Holy Ghost. These ideas are all of course rejected by orthodox Christianity (including the idea that the Father has a spouse, Heavenly Mother, with some LDS prophets having taught that the Father had multiple spouses).
In my view, Mormonism is explicitly polytheistic, at least in one sense (I will allow that perhaps in another sense it is monotheistic). Its leaders and scriptures refer to “the Gods” and the idea that the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are “three Gods”. This is polytheism. No Trinitarian would ever refer to the Persons of the Trinity in such ways.
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LivingWaters7
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You have to understand that Catholics believe “public revelation” has ended. Public revelation refers to all that is necessary for salvation, or the Deposit of Faith. That is complete. There will be nothing else revealed that affects how one can receive eternal life. There won’t suddenly be a new sacrament revealed that is now required for eternal life.
Having said that, as you may be aware, Catholic history is literally overflowing with revelations and visions from Heaven, much more so than Mormonism could even dream, to be honest. We have many stories of visitations of angels, Mary, Jesus, etc, many that have been formally recognized by the Church. We have many stories of healings, miracles, etc. God is still very much active in our lives, and has never stopped talking. Heaven is not closed, and never has been. We believe that God guides His Church, and has never stopped doing so.
More appropriately, Catholics believe that marriage is fulfilled in Heaven. In Heaven, you won’t stop knowing your spouse or have some sort of amnesia. In Heaven, we become like God, and we love the way He loves. If you and your spouse are saved, you will be there, together, along with the other sons and daughters of God in Jesus Christ, as members of the one family of God.
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Truth_Faith13
Guest
Yeah Ive watched that video and others like it several times!
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Truth_Faith13
Guest
That particular Catholic teaching in the CCC I happened to know myself anyway from my research into Catholicism so when I was reading the Catholic answers tract on Mormonism and there belief on becoming gods, it reminded me and I came here to ask the difference. Not meaning to put a Mormon spin on it, if I had wanted to do that, I woud have asked a Mormon
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Truth_Faith13
Guest
Thank-you for those explanations
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Truth_Faith13
Guest
Thank-youTruth_Faith13,
I happened to stumble across your thread over on Religious Forums (religiousforums.com/threads/for-lds-only-some-tricky-questions.185065/). This provides some context to understand where you’re coming from.
When you say you are “looking into both”, I’m curious what you mean by that. As you may know, I left Catholicism for Mormonism for a few years, then reverted back to Catholicism. The main reason why I returned to Catholicism was because, despite the things that I loved about being LDS, I simply found no Biblical nor historical support for a total apostasy of Jesus Christ’s Church. Also, many of the things that I liked about Mormonism are actually found right in Catholicism (such as the temple concept). As a Catholic, I love the fact that the continuity of the Church is based on the simple fact that God is always faithful, even when we are not. He doesn’t abandon us, even when we abandon Him. The Church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum of perfect saints. Christ is at the head of His Body, and He protects His Body. That idea is so abundantly clear in the Catholic Church, established by Jesus Christ over 2000 years ago, here still to this day.
Keep asking your questions here as well as wherever else you desire.
I’m in a bit of a yo-yo with it at the moment so I’m spending a lot of time studying and asking questions. I’ve been looking into Catholicism for a couple of years but I am focusing on Mormonism at the moment. I go to RF to ask LDS questions and here to ask Catholic questions. I understand that they are very different but they are also similar in some ways
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AnimaQuaerenti
Guest
Good luck in your studies!
Having spent decades in Mormonism and now several years investigating Catholicism, the similarities are honestly superficial. I just don’t see them. Catholicism encompasses the authority and orthodoxy that Mormonism claims to have.
Between the years when I came to the realization Mormonism wasn’t true and started to consider Catholicism, I was a cynical agnostic. When you come to the truth about Mormonism, it’s honestly hard to shake their claim that all other churches are false and sort of fall into distrust of religious claims in general.
Having spent decades in Mormonism and now several years investigating Catholicism, the similarities are honestly superficial. I just don’t see them. Catholicism encompasses the authority and orthodoxy that Mormonism claims to have.
Between the years when I came to the realization Mormonism wasn’t true and started to consider Catholicism, I was a cynical agnostic. When you come to the truth about Mormonism, it’s honestly hard to shake their claim that all other churches are false and sort of fall into distrust of religious claims in general.
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Horton
Guest
So what questions do you have about Catholicism?Thank-you
Of all the choices out there, why are you considering either Catholicism or LDS?
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campeador
Guest
Yes, this was today’s reading, but there is also Matthew 22:29-30 which is almost identical (and more succinct):
And Jesus answering, said to them: You err, not knowing the Scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they shall neither marry, nor be given in marriage: but shall be as the angels of God in heaven.
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Tarquin
Guest
Being gullible and willing to give the other person the benefit of the doubt, I did used to believe this. But after calming down and giving due consideration using my reasoning, I decided that this is not true. Of course an inquiry into Mormonism, whether serious or not,could hardly escape mention of Smith and the Book of Mormon. That’s more like an “introduction.” The investigation itself, if it truly is serious, requires comparison of known evidence (“facts”) with the claims of Mormonism, whether in the Book of Mormon or not, and whether voiced by Smith or not - maybe it’s in the Doctrine and Covenants, or it’s something Brigham Young claimed was doctrine. So, as already mentioned, a serious inquiry into Mormonism can be expected to include some archaeological, historical, and Biblical investigation at the very least. One could also include metallurgy, botany, linguistics, and zoology, as well as methods of travel (land and sea), worship, finance, and so on.
I think there are probably many people who would disagree, some partly, some wholly. John Henry Newman, partly; C. S. Lewis, by some accounts, wholly. St. Augustine testified that reason puts man on the road toward God, which he applied as wholly as he could. He also believed that reason is “informed and elevated” by faith. But reason comes first. People who rely only on faith - that’s the reason they join harmful groups like Aum Shinrikyo and the later People’s Temple. I would not join a faith system that I did not believe was rationally defensible. From what I have learned so far, Catholicism is one of the very few religions to apply solid reasoning and clear (not confusing) logic to determine as well as defend its theology. I am a fan of scholastic reasoning and Robert Spitzer. The reason I believe God exists has everything to do with the reasoning of Thomas Aquinas, the Scholastics, and Robert Sptizer, and virtually nothing (less than 1%) to do with pure “faith.” I hope my strong reliance on reason isn’t too disappointing to those who trust faith as a more sure confirmation.
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Truth_Faith13
Guest
I believe that Christ established His Church (a visible one) and gave the keys to the kingdom along with the power to loose and bind to Peter. While I believe that each Christian Church has elements of truth to them, I believe that there will only be one that Christ Himself founded. Catholicism and Mormonism are the only ones I know that make that claim and can make that claim.
I heard an interesting story from I believe one if the LDS people I know about how a member of the Catholic Church stated how if the Catholic Church is wrong, then the only other Church that could be true is Mormonism for all other churches came from Catholicism (mostly), that if the Catholic Church did fall into an apostasy then then would be need for a restoration. However if there wasn’t an apostasy, there would be no need for a restoration and the only Church which could be true is the Catholic Church (that’s a terrible paraphrasing job on my part but I hope you get the idea!)
I did ask a couple of questions in this thread…
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=1016818
However I went away for a couple of weeks and it was pages longer than I had left it so need to catch up on what’s going on! When I started this thread I wasn’t looking into Mormonism officially. The real presence is the one thing that is holding me back from Mormonism.
The one question I do have on my mind at the moment is does/did the CC teach that children who are not baptised go to limbo?
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Jerusha
Guest
Limbo is not an official teaching of the Church. The Catechism says:
This implies Limbo. Limbo is in limbo.
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