Mormonism

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truthsave said:
Thank you for this statement. It has been a long time I had something in my brain about mormonism and now after I have red your sentence I could finally remember it.
A book I have red long long time ago writen by one of the most if not the most important writer on the subject of evolution of consciousness.
Even though I don’t share the writer’s beliefs his insight is extremely remarkable.
It is the Atman project by Ken Wilber.
.
"**Each stage or level of growth seek absolute Unity (the Atman trend or Atman telos) but in way or under conditions that necessarily prevent it, and allow only substitute unities and substitutes gratifications, (that is the Atman project proper).
**
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Yes. The LDS god is nothing more than a project of someone else…he is adam, or exalted man, or whatever the newest prophet says he is. That can never be THE God.
 
TexanKnight said:
If you disagree with their teaching, that is between you and God.

Additionally, you seem to project. I am not angry at all. Yes, I attack with zeal. I do all the God has told me to do with zeal. However, if you seek to find anger, you will usually be successful. As I have stated, I have nothing against people, but I will fight as instructed the teachings.

Again, please show me an attack so that I may apologize. I simply disagree with your all-inclusive ideas that seem to go against what the Popes have taught us regarding heresy.

If that makes you feel attacked, then please accept my apology.

Be Blessed.
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You may satisfy your own sense of self righteousness with how you act on this board, but you aren’t worthy of pointing out what I need to work out with my God.
 
Allen2Saint said:
You may satisfy your own sense of self righteousness with how you act on this board, but you aren’t worthy of pointing out what I need to work out with my God.
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I have never claimed to be self righteous, sir. I am not. Nor do I claim any high position. I have only claimed that I know more about the LDS church than you do. I know more about their methods and teachings.

As to worthiness, I am a child of God. I am pretty worthy of God. If you are higher than God and therefore I am worthy of Him and not you, then I apologize.

I simply commented that I am only following the teaching of the Church, and that is not sitting well with you. That is a little concerning.

I also apologized for offending you, which you did not acknowledge.

I think your tone and the the above speak for themselves.

I attended Mass today. It was a beautiful Mass. The Gospel was about the Vine and Branches. I will continue to be His branch.

Peace, Good Sir.
 
Allen2Saint said:
You may satisfy your own sense of self righteousness with how you act on this board, but you aren’t worthy of pointing out what I need to work out with my God.
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Maybe I should approach it like this. See, sometimes it is important to make sure people are on the same sheet of music.
  1. Do you believe LDS teachings are heretical? If not, I can see where you are coming a little better.
  2. If not heretical, then they must be true teachings, right?
  3. How have our leaders through history told us to treat heresy?
Again, I mean no offense. I am simply asking.

Peace again.
 
Miriam1947 said:
Allen2Saint~ Mormon?
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Some of us are pretty well trianglulated into the identity of this poster, and have a lot of experience with him.
You may satisfy your own sense of self righteousness with how you act on this board, but you aren’t worthy of pointing out what I need to work out with my God.
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This comment is especially humorous.

I have him on ignore, as he seems to stalk me in particular. :confused:
 
I find it interesting that I can at first take exception to the tone of some of the posts in this thread, albeit a little passionately,I admit, and then defend myself from being told I need to take something up with my God and everyone jumps in a line believing I’m a Mormon, rather than consider I could be correct, or at least reasonable in pointing out that a former Mormon like Texasknight might have an issue with Mormonism and it might flavor his dealings in this thread.

Knight you said that if I had an issue with how you were stating the realities of the Church then I needed to take it up with my God. You don’t find that self righteous? You’re the sole interpreter of what the Church says?

My core point is that though I have clearly stated that I find the Mormon theology lacking and incorrect( everyone caught that, right?), I do believe that God hears a sincere prayer. I believe in the Gospel of Luke which states that Christ came to save not condemn. If for that I am worthy of an assusation of deceptiveness, then fine. Accuse.

I am from a very simple, working class parish in Central New York who taught me all I needed to know.
 
Allen2Saint said:
I find it interesting that I can at first take exception to the tone of some of the posts in this thread, albeit a little passionately,.
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TexanKnight said:
.
  1. Do you believe LDS teachings are heretical? If not, I can see where you are coming a little better.
  2. If not heretical, then they must be true teachings, right?
  3. How have our leaders through history told us to treat heresy?
Again, I mean no offense. I am simply asking.

Peace again.
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I felt the poster was being uncharitable, as the rules say we should be.
 
TexanKnight said:
Maybe I should approach it like this. See, sometimes it is important to make sure people are on the same sheet of music.
  1. Do you believe LDS teachings are heretical? If not, I can see where you are coming a little better.
  2. If not heretical, then they must be true teachings, right?
  3. How have our leaders through history told us to treat heresy?
Again, I mean no offense. I am simply asking.

Peace again.
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I’ve said several times in this post that I don’t believe in the Mormon theology. My criticism of you was the tone and manner of how you dealt with the Mormons on this board. I felt you were harsh in the way you addressed them. I feel the same about how you dealt with me. I think you said yourself you come on strong. I do the same and I apologize for that.

Although you did not accuse me of being deceptive, which really is kinda low.

Look, my training is as a chaplain, which means that I accept people as they are and work from there. My POV is from the ground up, not from heaven down, and I feel God hears it all if it’s sincere. That was my only point.
 
I have been charitable to the posters but not to the LDS teachings. You did not answer my questions regarding heresy. Then, you became uncharitable to me, which is fine, but it seems odd you would require something of others that you were not willing to do yourself.

Again, that is fine. We are actually told TO condemn heresy. Remember the verse about wiping the dust from your sandals? Our leaders throughout time have instructed us how to act toward heresy.

The question then becomes, what do you believe is heresy?

And now, I was not self-righteous in my comments. I was following Church leaders, you seemed to take offense with that. I was simply asking.

Be well and Be Blessed.
 
You and I are stylistically different and I don’t think we’ll agree, but again, I appreciate that you have not accused me of lying. I feel you come on too strong and that you weren’t charitable. How do you deal with it when someone asks you to take another look at what you do?

I’m sorry, I hear and understand your questions, but I have no interest in getting into protracted discussions about heresies. I was interested in coming to this thread because among my peers, I was the best at dealing with people of other faiths. I am excellent at my profession, which is also my vocation, but this is not the work of this forum. In my first job at my first hospital we all worked together, Jews, Muslims, Methodists and even some wavy gravy kind of Anglicans and we all shared respectfully. So, I come from that, not from a place of debate. It’s just not what you guys want here, which is fine.

Also, I was subjected to many criticisms in my last position at a different hospital and I was the target of a lot of negativity being the only Catholic, so I know what its like to be in the thick of all these debates. I spent hours face to face with people dealing with this and I never got anywhere intellectually. I changed opinions about us though, by being caring, not by debating.

That said, and this is not for you Knight, now that I’ve told my tale, I am many negative things and I have a thousand faults, but I am not a liar.
 
Allen2Saint said:
You and I are stylistically different and I don’t think we’ll agree, but again, I appreciate that you have not accused me of lying. I feel you come on too strong and that you weren’t charitable. How do you deal with it when someone asks you to take another look at what you do?

I’m sorry, I hear and understand your questions, but I have no interest in getting into protracted discussions about heresies. I was interested in coming to this thread because among my peers, I was the best at dealing with people of other faiths. I am excellent at my profession, which is also my vocation, but this is not the work of this forum. In my first job at my first hospital we all worked together, Jews, Muslims, Methodists and even some wavy gravy kind of Anglicans and we all shared respectfully. So, I come from that, not from a place of debate. It’s just not what you guys want here, which is fine.

Also, I was subjected to many criticisms in my last position at a different hospital and I was the target of a lot of negativity being the only Catholic, so I know what its like to be in the thick of all these debates. I spent hours face to face with people dealing with this and I never got anywhere intellectually. I changed opinions about us though, by being caring, not by debating.

That said, and this is not for you Knight, now that I’ve told my tale, I am many negative things and I have a thousand faults, but I am not a liar.
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Yes, I never thought you were lying. And yes, I come on strong. It is how we are supposed to be against heresy. But, if you noticed, I never went after the poster, just the message.

Having been lds, I know how dangerous it is. It is imperative we correct all bad teaching. Jesus will come back someday and I will not have it said that I did nt fight heresy with all my being.

I admire your vocation. I have only been catholic about 9 or 10 years and would have loved to been a priest. I enjoyed being a Mormon missionary because I loved feeling like I was working for God 24/7. I wish you the very very best in your vocation.

Be blessed
 
Allen, when you say God hears a sincere prayer, to which God are you talking about? The mormon god as revealed to j smith is NOT the god of either the old or new testament. If you hear all the mormons say about their god or heavenly father, you cannot apply their description of that god, to the true God and come up with any resemblance as revealed to the Jews and Christians. They are two different beings.
As for charity towards others when talking about God, Jesus told satan in the desert to “get behind me satan.” It was a command, not a request.
If i see you are about to step in a pit and dont try to warn you, havent i contributed to you fall into it? The mormons should be told about their following a demon into hell, by every true christian they meet. Doing any less is failing your calling. blessings. Garland
 
Janderich said:
This of course is where we disagree. There are some fundamental laws which God did not create but uses to bring about his eternal purposes. Indeed there is likely wide and varied freedom to create within these laws and from our limited perspective it is difficult to tell which laws are fundamental but that does not change the fact.
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The mention of “fundamental laws which God did not create but uses to bring about his eternal purposes” is problematic.

St Thomas Aquinas proposed 5 proofs for the existence of God over 800 years ago as per the Summa Theologicae (See also Fr. Robert Spitzer’s books on the proofs of God & creation etc.). God is the creator of all things, not creator of sin, of course. As per Genesis, he made all things and saw them as good.

Jason Everts in “Answering Jehovah’s Witnesses” discusses this on pages 59 & 60.
Deut 6:4 See the SCHEMA of the JEWS: “Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is one.” The Jews knew 1 God and 1 only. The Hebrew word 'echad is used in this verse, meaning “one” but a unity of several parts: Ex. 1 day has parts, morning, evening. 1 flesh has parts: husband & wife. If the Schema meant a solitary God without parts, the word used would have been “yachid” which is simply not the case.

Gen 1:26 “Let us make man in our image.” OUR points to a God of more than a single, a solitude.
Gen 11:7 “Let us go down…” No one else goes down with Him to Tower of Babel.
Job 9:8, Isaiah 44:24, Neh 9:6 = God ALONE is the Creator.
Psalm 102 “O my God… Your years are throughout all generations. Long ago you laid the foundations of the earth itself.”

However, Everts points out:
Hebrews 1:8-10 echoes same pertaining to JESUS: “You at the beginning O Lord, laid the foundations of the earth itself… and the heavens are the works of your hands.”
= Jesus is God who Creates.

John 1:3 Jesus created the heavens and the earth: “all things were made through him and without him was not anything made that was made” in reference to our Savior.

Ignatius Study Bible, Book of John by Dr. Scott Hahn & Curtis Mitch discusses the Word: Jesus Christ is the WORD, the LOGOS (Hahn & Mitch: word, statement, utterance). They discuss the philosophical & biblical concepts.
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 "(1) Ancient Greek philosophers associated the Word with the order and design of the universe or with the intelligible expression of the mind of God as he sustains and governs it.   (2)  In biblical tradition the Word is the powerful utterance of God that brought all things into being at the dawn of time (Gen 1:3, Ps 33-6, Wis 9:1).   (3) Another biblical tradition links the Word of God with the Wisdom of God, who was depicted as God's eternal companion (Prov 8:23, Sir 24:9), the craftsman who labored alongside God at creation (Prov 8:30, Wis 7:22), and the one who remains a source of life for the world (Prov 8:35).  John, it seems. has pulled these traditions together to say something entirely new: the Word of God is not so much an abstract principle or an audible power as it is a Divine Person: God the Son (Rev 19 :13).  This eternal Word, once a mediator of creation, has now become a mediator of salvation through his Incarnation (Jn 1:14, 3:17)."
The Early Church Fathers spent much parchment & ink not to mention the shedding of their blood on this topic, discussing Jesus’ DIVINITY over & over; the Church settled this centuries ago, exposing & extinguishing HERESIES as they came and went, thereby preserving Truth. The same heresies are trotted out now & again by the father of lies. Why change your MO when it works on the ignorant & unsuspecting. (See William Jurgens’ 3 volume set on the ECF).

Confusion on who & what God IS is always floating around somewhere. Rather, to my estimation in the case of the LDS, it began as an intentional rewriting, a left-turn by a convicted, teen-aged glass-looker, continued on in a relatively short span of history by his cohorts & sucessors.

Placing the pieces in the correct spot is unlikely for Non-Christian World Organizations. It would involve biblical honesty, departure from blatant scripture twisting & require a hard look at what they spin & PROMOTE & how & why they accessed a different “truth” . Does TRUTH about God, the great “I AM” suit their purposes & what does that do to the integrity of their teachings, their establishment as organization and justification for their existence??? 🤷
 
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