Mormonism

[TexanKnight]

So that would mean the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John were “tempting the rest of humankind” by saying that men could become joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

The LDS Church believes that the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John had reason to know what they were writing about.

But Satan will use every means in his bag of tricks to make the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John seem like they didn’t know what they were writing about.

Sigh…becoming a joint heir is NOT becoming a God. An heir is someone who inherits. We inherit eternal life. My son is an heir, but he will NOT become me. Please do not mislead these people.

 

[TexanKnight]

So that would mean the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John were “tempting the rest of humankind” by saying that men could become joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

The LDS Church believes that the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John had reason to know what they were writing about.

But Satan will use every means in his bag of tricks to make the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John seem like they didn’t know what they were writing about.

And I am not the one who thinks Biblical people did not know what they were saying. You, for example, think Jesus had no clue or was a liar in Matthew 16:18 and when he said THIS IS MY BODY.

I, on the other hand, do not believe Jesus lied.

 

[ParkerD]

And I am not the one who thinks Biblical people did not know what they were saying. You, for example, think Jesus had no clue or was a liar in Matthew 16:18 and when he said THIS IS MY BODY.

I, on the other hand, do not believe Jesus lied.

Jesus knew perfectly well that the group He was addressing were completely familiar with the metaphorical language of Jewish religious language and poetry. He did not need to “have a clue” as though He didn’t know about His own studying which He had done, and they did not need to “have a clue” about speaking in that same metaphorical religious language which they were very familiar with in their heritage.

 

[TexanKnight]

Jesus knew perfectly well that the group He was addressing were completely familiar with the metaphorical language of Jewish religious language and poetry. He did not need to “have a clue” as though He didn’t know about His own studying which He had done, and they did not need to “have a clue” about speaking in that same metaphorical religious language which they were very familiar with in their heritage.

Ah…I see. YOU are now God. YOU know what Jesus REALLY meant. YOU do not believe Jesus meant what He said. YOU will correct the Christ.

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Telstar]

Which means that Satan was scoffing at God’s plan of salvation, scoffing at Jesus Christ’s role in the plan of salvation, and scoffing at the idea that there was going to be a Son of God who could redeem spirits sent to the earth who could through Him become sons of God and joint heirs.

Satan scoffs and ridicules at such an idea or such a plan. He is opposed to it.

"Going to be" a Son of God? Jesus is the Only true Son of God. He has always existed as such, long before anything else that exists was ever created. There was no “going to be” about it. Lucifer knew exactly Who Jesus was. He was jealous of the fact that when Jesus was incarnated as a man, all the angels would have to bow down to worship Him, and would all be subject to Him. But, Lucifer’s narcissistic pride in his great beauty, and in the majesty that he possessed as the highest angel in Heaven, would not allow him to accept that he would ever have to bow down to any ‘mortal man’, not even if that Man was God, Himself.

Lucifer knew that all the angels were created long before man, and even the lowest angel in Heaven had much greater gifts of intelligence, beauty and power than all mankind would ever have. He also knew that he was the greatest and most beautiful of all. So, he thought it was beneath his great dignity to ever worship and pay homage to any mortal man. That was what got him thrown out of Heaven, because he wanted to be worshiped by man, as a ‘god’, instead. He wanted all the power that only God possessed. In other words, he wanted to be equal to God. But, God refused to give him any more power than he already had.

That’s also why he wanted mankind to be punished by God, just like he was punished, by being thrown out of Paradise. He knew that if he could get them to sin, God would have to punish them. He was jealous of God’s love for mankind, and he hated them for it. What better way was there for him to instigate them to sin, than by tempting them with the same sin that he committed? He tempted them with the sin of pride, to want to be independent and not have to be obedient to God, but to have the same power that God possessed. To be His equal, instead of being His humble and obedient servant, who was content with all that God had already given to them. Satan tempted them to want even more than they already had, just like he did.

IMHO, Joseph Smith had absolutely no understanding of God, or the Bible, at all.

 

[ParkerD]

Wow. Just wow.

To the general reader:

Jesus was Jewish. He had studied the Torah and other religious writings, and spoke language that the rabbis understood and the Jews who had a background in their religious heritage understood. This need not be a mystery–it can be studied.

He was the Great Teacher, “the stone whom the builders rejected”. He spoke “their language”, and the rabbis and the Pharisees rejected Him even though they understood His language (in fact they rejected Him because they understood His language, and knew He was saying He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).

 

[Telstar]

So that would mean the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John were “tempting the rest of humankind” by saying that men could become joint heirs with Jesus Christ.

They did not lie, nor were they tempting anyone. Becoming a “joint heir” means that as adopted children of God, we will inherit the right to possess our own ‘place’ in the Kingdom of God, which is in Heaven. It has absolutely nothing to do with our becoming gods or kings of our own kingdom, somewhere on another planet, or in another universe, where the ‘children’ that we’ll procreate will worship us as gods. We will certainly never possess all the power of the true One and Only God.

The LDS Church believes that the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John had reason to know what they were writing about.

They most certainly did. They also passed that knowledge on to all those who would succeed them in their positions in the only true Church of Jesus Christ, the same knowledge which She still possesses and teaches to this day.

But Satan will use every means in his bag of tricks to make the Apostle Paul and the Apostle John seem like they didn’t know what they were writing about.

Satan most certainly will use every trick in the book, including appearing to a man as an ‘angel of light’, in order to try and deceive, even the elect of God. That’s why we shouldn’t even believe our own eyes when we see such things, much less take the word of anyone else that would make such a claim, without doing what John taught us to do. “[1 John 4:1] Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”.

 

[RebeccaJ]

To the general reader:

Jesus was Jewish. He had studied the Torah and other religious writings, and spoke language that the rabbis understood and the Jews who had a background in their religious heritage understood. This need not be a mystery–it can be studied.

He was the Great Teacher, “the stone whom the builders rejected”. He spoke “their language”, and the rabbis and the Pharisees rejected Him even though they understood His language (in fact they rejected Him because they understood His language, and knew He was saying He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).

This post denies the transcendental nature of God. Jesus is GOD, and so certainly has more knowledge of what is meant in scripture than any man who has or ever will live. He also knows the hearts of all, which you can’t claim no matter how much you “study”.

 

[TexanKnight]

To the general reader:

Jesus was Jewish. He had studied the Torah and other religious writings, and spoke language that the rabbis understood and the Jews who had a background in their religious heritage understood. This need not be a mystery–it can be studied.

He was the Great Teacher, “the stone whom the builders rejected”. He spoke “their language”, and the rabbis and the Pharisees rejected Him even though they understood His language (in fact they rejected Him because they understood His language, and knew He was saying He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).

To the General Reader:

Jesus was God. He was not weak, He was not a liar. He was very clear. Jesus made promises in Matthew 16:18. For the LDS to be true, Jesus would have to be very weak to the extent He could not keep His Church from failing or He would have to be a liar.

Jesus also knew what He was saying. We do not need people like Brother Parker to tell us what Jesus REALLY meant. Jesus does not need Parker to interpret for Him. Jesus was clear.

Please be aware that this is how the LDS Church operates. For it to be true, most of the Bible has to be explained by Mormons, because it is mostly wrong.

And, as I stated earlier…only two entities have told us we can become Gods…Satan, and the LDS Church.

Peace to All

 

[mtolympus]

I’m an RC lay chaplain. Working with people of all different faiths is my bread and butter. I personally, am endlessly curious about other faiths just as much as I am curious about other subjects, but I think it’s a fruitless task to try to intellectually debate people of other faiths. It isn’t an intellectual experience.

I have prayed with people of every faith system and with people with no faith systems( and laughably a few tried to convert me in the process), but to think we’ll get anywhere with this compare contrast debate, other than learning about differences, is really pointless.

I think Vat 2 is a great measuring stick with all this. We can see love of God, reverence for Christ as part of “the truth” and can call that a point of agreement and even celebrate it, but I personally am ethically bound not to try to convert anyone and I’ve never seen it happen effectively with just “information.”

My two cents.

I greatly appreciate your sevice to God and our country.

 

[Keith_B]

Keep in mind what defines the truth. It is when you look at the facts and the overwhelming evidence supports the thing you are trying to decide on. Also, if there is part of somthing that is false, especially with religion, then the whole thing is false. If it is not from God then it is from Satan. Some people want to believe there is some kind of middle ground. When you are not one with the Catholic Church in reality you really don’t truly believe in God at all. To believe in God you have to recognize who God really is and humble yourself accordingly. Thats what other demoniations don’t do. Mormonism is one of the most cleaver deceptions Satan has put forth to take souls form God. It’s growing like a cancer. Which is a testimony as to the deteriorating times we live in. Pray constantly.

God Bless, In Jesus and Mary,

Keith

 

[mtolympus]

Ah…I see. YOU are now God. YOU know what Jesus REALLY meant. YOU do not believe Jesus meant what He said. YOU will correct the Christ.

Your resonse IMHO has become irrational. Parker was involved in a conversation with you, not with Christ.

 

[TexanKnight]

Your resonse IMHO has become irrational. Parker was involved in a conversation with you, not with Christ.

Nope. He is telling me what Jesus REALLY means. He is telling me what Jesus MEANT to say. THAT is irrational.

 

[SteveVH]

To the general reader:

Jesus was Jewish. He had studied the Torah and other religious writings, and spoke language that the rabbis understood and the Jews who had a background in their religious heritage understood. This need not be a mystery–it can be studied.

He was the Great Teacher, “the stone whom the builders rejected”. He spoke “their language”, and the rabbis and the Pharisees rejected Him even though they understood His language (in fact they rejected Him because they understood His language, and knew He was saying He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).

I could not agree with you more, Parker. The Jews of that time understood the language in which he spoke, which is why the first apostasy occurred after the Bread of Life discourse. They were completely offended that he told them that they must eat his body and drink his blood. They understood his words perfectly and understood that he was not speaking metaphorically. It offended their Jewish senses profoundly. He never backed off, but rather the conversation went from “I am the Bread of Life” to “If you do not eat my body and drink my blood you will have no life in you.” They left him at that point and he did not, as any teacher worth his salt would be obligated to do, call them back and expalin that he was speaking metaphorically.

Those who reject the Eucharist follow those who left him into apostasy. He meant what he said.

 

[zaffiroborant]

To the General Reader:

Jesus was God. He was not weak, He was not a liar. He was very clear. Jesus made promises in Matthew 16:18. For the LDS to be true, Jesus would have to be very weak to the extent He could not keep His Church from failing or He would have to be a liar.

Jesus also knew what He was saying. We do not need people like Brother Parker to tell us what Jesus REALLY meant. Jesus does not need Parker to interpret for Him. Jesus was clear.

Please be aware that this is how the LDS Church operates. For it to be true, most of the Bible has to be explained by Mormons, because it is mostly wrong.

And, as I stated earlier…only two entities have told us we can become Gods…Satan, and the LDS Church.

Peace to All

"For the LDS to be true, Jesus would have to be very weak to the extent He could not keep His Church from failing* twice** or He would have to be a liar."*
Just wanted to point out the failure of 2 churches.

 

[Espero]

The original question was how people view Mormonism, I’ll just go off that besides going off the little “skirmishes” that seem to have arisen.

I enjoy the LDS church, personally. Of course, I do not share the beliefs of the LDS church, but many of my close friends are indeed, Mormon. Though I do not agree with its beliefs, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t some beliefs that aren’t admirable. The LDS church seems to put an emphasis on family, more so than any other church I have met. It also seems to be a major supporter of love, compassion, and general kindness.

I believe we should look past what differences may be between us because of religion, and look for things that we have in common with one another.

 

[mtolympus]

Nope. He is telling me what Jesus REALLY means. He is telling me what Jesus MEANT to say. THAT is irrational.

And how do you know ParkerD is not right? Is it only you who knows what Jesus really means? Is it only you who know when the Lord is speaking literally? Is this a forum for discussion? Or is this where if someone has a different interpretation than the Catholic Church they are calling Jesus a liar?

 

[mtolympus]

The original question was how people view Mormonism, I’ll just go off that besides going off the little “skirmishes” that seem to have arisen.

I enjoy the LDS church, personally. Of course, I do not share the beliefs of the LDS church, but many of my close friends are indeed, Mormon. Though I do not agree with its beliefs, it doesn’t mean that there aren’t some beliefs that aren’t admirable. The LDS church seems to put an emphasis on family, more so than any other church I have met. It also seems to be a major supporter of love, compassion, and general kindness.

I believe we should look past what differences may be between us because of religion, and look for things that we have in common with one another.

I agree. I encourage everyone to be strong in the religion that gives them faith in the Lord and that we should work together for the cause of Christ.

 

[RebeccaJ]

And how do you know ParkerD is not right? Is it only you who knows what Jesus really means? Is it only you who know when the Lord is speaking literally? Is this a forum for discussion? Or is this where if someone has a different interpretation than the Catholic Church they are calling Jesus a liar?

Most here, even in the non-Catholic forum, are Catholics. From a Catholic POV, Jesus established His Church and promised it would not fail. Jesus gave to His Church the gift of the Holy Spirit. For Catholics, the authority to interpret scripture was given to the Church by Jesus Christ, personal interpretation being explicitly taught as heretical.

So, no, ParkerD is not right, he is one of those of which we are warned, bothering the faithful with another gospel (though there is not another gospel).

Mormonism teaches that Christ’s Church failed, which to a Catholic, is in fact calling Jesus a liar.

So, you can address the scriptures from where our belief is based, or complain that we’re not being “nice”.

Up to you.

 

[ParkerD]

I could not agree with you more, Parker. The Jews of that time understood the language in which he spoke, which is why the first apostasy occurred after the Bread of Life discourse. They were completely offended that he told them that they must eat his body and drink his blood. They understood his words perfectly and understood that he was not speaking metaphorically. It offended their Jewish senses profoundly. He never backed off, but rather the conversation went from “I am the Bread of Life” to “If you do not eat my body and drink my blood you will have no life in you.” They left him at that point and he did not, as any teacher worth his salt would be obligated to do, call them back and expalin that he was speaking metaphorically.

Those who reject the Eucharist follow those who left him into apostasy. He meant what he said.

SteveVH,

The apostles weren’t offended by Jesus having said He is the Bread of life, and they showed that they knew He was speaking in the way that the rabbis spoke using the heritage of their poetic language. Simon Peter answered Christ’s question with the specifically chosen words, “Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life.” Thus Peter showed that he knew what the Savior was teaching.

If Peter had thought Jesus was being literal, he would not have answered in that way.

The Jews who scorned Jesus with the question about “how can this man give us his flesh to eat?” were not learned Jews and had been looking for a miracle of loaves and fishes, so their question reflected their disappointment that Jesus was not going to provide another loaves and fishes miracle.

To the general reader:

It would be great if the words “liar” and “Jesus” would not be used in the same sentence, as it always comes across as being completely disrespectful of Him and completely at odds with His teachings on many levels.