Mormons and eternal marriage

[rmcmullan]

Well, after reading all your replies I must say, it’s pretty funny the way you all recoiled from a scripture from the Book of Abraham like a vampire does from the morning sun. Such a dramatic over reaction! At least PaulDupre had an entertaining reply which actually addressed some of the scripture with his pyramid scheme metaphor.

If your heart rate and breathing has returned to normal, let me continue. The purpose of the passage from the divinely inspired Book of Abraham was to address your concern over whether or not the God we worship has a God. I think it is plain enough for those who have ears.

In answering that, I was taken somewhat off topic. I suppose that is inevitable since the nature of heaven encompasses many principles that you are all still struggling with. I have asked this earlier and will ask it again, “Are you all so sure that it against Catholic teachings to believe that families willbe together in heaven ?” It it part of the Catholic cathecism?

 

[majick275]

families can be together forever in Christian belief. It is much easier than in mormon doctrine. In christian heaven all of the souls whom jesus has saved will be together in the presence of the one and only God. we will know each other and all be happy. we won’t be segregated into tribes or bloodlines or varying kingdoms and we won’t be ranked by patriarchal seniority either. we will be perfected and brought to a higher state by God that will make our relationships in heaven far superior to what we have experienced on earth.

Contrast this with the LDS view that you will be subordinate to a sibling because they were your ancestor on earth and you won’t really be with your family forever because your children will be with their souse on their world and will have to spend time with their children and with their spouses parents (think of this context of generations dating back to adam). God (elohim) will probably want to spend some time with his parents and his God and his siblings too. There is also the lower kingdoms for family members who didn’t make it and then the full time job of creating, populating and running worlds without end. the marriage relationship would seem to be the tightest until you consider that there will be plural wives to share the husband and the children will be cutoff from the mothers at least during their earthly existence.

so which actually seems more the product of a loving omnipotent God? I’ll take all of us in heaven with one God forever.

 

[truthsilence]

Well, after reading all your replies I must say, it’s pretty funny the way you all recoiled from a scripture from the Book of Abraham like a vampire does from the morning sun. Such a dramatic over reaction! At least PaulDupre had an entertaining reply which actually addressed some of the scripture with his pyramid scheme metaphor.

If your heart rate and breathing has returned to normal, let me continue. The purpose of the passage from the divinely inspired Book of Abraham was to address your concern over whether or not the God we worship has a God. I think it is plain enough for those who have ears.

In answering that, I was taken somewhat off topic. I suppose that is inevitable since the nature of heaven encompasses many principles that you are all still struggling with. I have asked this earlier and will ask it again, “Are you all so sure that it against Catholic teachings to believe that families willbe together in heaven ?” It it part of the Catholic cathecism?

As for myself, I “recoiled” because those were clearly not the words of God and you posted them as scripture. My heart and breathing, personally, was and is just fine. Thanks be to God.

I don’t “struggle” with your version of the nature of heaven or Joseph’s levels of intelligences at all. I simply don’t believe any of it. God showed me a better way. His way!

And majick has once again beat me to answering your last question so I’ll just say Amen… to what he said. Do you need catechism references?

 

[alanjeddy]

One of the most important differences with Mormonism vs mainstream Christianity is that they do not believe in the divinety
Of Jesus. To their way of thinking He is "only " the new Adam.
Therefore they are monotheistic. Furthermore they also believe that everyone has the potential to become a God. So that would make them polytheistic.

I wonder what it will be like for the mormons when they meet Jesus after they die?

 

[PattyPryor]

Okay I am going to school at Silver Lake College (a Catholic college) for Theology. I was told I should go to BYU for the real theology.

I was like ummm not because it isn’t the theology God created. As I sat through my classes last semester. Including a History course and 2 theology I noticed how all different religions came together to understand God. The only problem was the LDS women sitting in History class and the Intro to Theology classes. She made it seem like we were so off base when everyone thought she was. it even said in the History book that in the Americas there were no honey bees and horses (only minitures back in the day- nothing anyone could ride into battle).

I was wondering how she felt after it all and she said her testimony was ‘shaken’ and after that I know that my Catholic Theology wasn’t the worst but the best.

I was to see my grandma in heaven when I die and i know I will because there isn’t 3 kingdoms and ranks

I will ask AGAIN. Can the LDS folks people use a common base for scripture when representing something they believe because we don’t believe thier 'holy works are insired by God\

Only the Bible without it’s translations corrected. The same ol Good Book that has survived a Good amount of time

 

[RebeccaJ]

I will ask AGAIN. Can the LDS folks people use a common base for scripture when representing something they believe because we don’t believe thier 'holy works are insired by God\

Only the Bible without it’s translations corrected. The same ol Good Book that has survived a Good amount of time

No, they can’t. For one, they believe that the Bible is in error, somewhere, sometime, though I have yet to hear any mormon explain where those errors are, exactly.

Yet, at the same time they ignore all evidence that clearly shows the BoM and Book of Abraham are nothing but fabrications of MEN.

It is no surprise that the mormons in your classes reacted as they did. The entire premise of mormonism is based on the idea that all of Christianity is in a “great apostasy”. So, much of what Christians hold as true…mormons don’t believe, at all.

 

[RebeccaJ]

rmcmullan…my reaction to your PoG nonsense was to start humming “Stairway to Heaven”. Got some more?

 

[truthsilence]

rmcmullan…my reaction to your PoG nonsense was to start humming “Stairway to Heaven”. Got some more?

Oh please no. Well, at least wait till the sun goes down. Then we should all be alright.

Pearl of Great Nonsense. That’s a true statement if I ever heard one.

 

[alanjeddy]

Oh please no. Well, at least wait till the sun goes down. Then we should all be alright.

Pearl of Great Nonsense. That’s a true statement if I ever heard

one.

They are a heretical cult who do not believe that Jesus is Divine and the Son of God. Beyond that all their other falsehoods are just a bunch of baloney.

 

[rmcmullan]

It seems pretty clear that you view the dissolving of family ties as a good thing. Perhaps you view the family as some sort of impediment to worship or perfection.

No one has really answered my question. I think it would be okay for Catholics to believe that family bonds are honoured in the hereafter but the posters to the board are not truly representative of Catholic thinking. They’re sort of their own little group. They’re like the monks who take a vow of silence or of poverty but are in all other ways traditional Catholics. You guys are like traditional Catholics except you all have taken a vow to be contrary to LDS teachings. Maybe you should get together and build a monestary.

At this point I think this discussion has descended into a Mormon bashfest so I’ll just bow out. I enjoy this forum, really I do, but sometimes you all go way over the line of what’s respectful.

 

[RebeccaJ]

It seems pretty clear that you view the dissolving of family ties as a good thing. Perhaps you view the family as some sort of impediment to worship or perfection.

No one has really answered my question. I think it would be okay for Catholics to believe that family bonds are honoured in the hereafter but the posters to the board are not truly representative of Catholic thinking. They’re sort of their own little group. They’re like the monks who take a vow of silence or of poverty but are in all other ways traditional Catholics. You guys are like traditional Catholics except you all have taken a vow to be contrary to LDS teachings. Maybe you should get together and build a monestary.

At this point I think this discussion has descended into a Mormon bashfest so I’ll just bow out. I enjoy this forum, really I do, but sometimes you all go way over the line of what’s respectful.

rmcmullan, no one is bashing you, just it is hard to take mormon scriptures seriously, especially the Book of Abraham.

It has been explained to you at least twice what the Catholic doctrine is on heaven and the after-life. And nothing that has been explained to you describes a dissolving of family ties. Everything that has been explained describes One Big Family, with God as the Father of us all, as He is now.

It is you who is not understanding, or refusing to understand, or just plain blind, I am not sure which.

And your comments about family are ironic, considering the day. Today, at every Mass, in every part of the world, family is being celebrated.

 

[lukewarm]

They are a heretical cult who do not believe that Jesus is Divine and the Son of God. Beyond that all their other falsehoods are just a bunch of baloney.

While I don’t adhere to Mormon doctrine and I do consider them “heretical” just like they would consider me as a Catholic heretical your statement is inaccurate. Mormon’s definitely consider Jesus divine and the Son of God, Jesus is also their savior. Now thier idea of God and what eactly that means is completely different than ours, but that doesn’t change the fact that they believe that Jesus is the only begotten son of thier God.

 

[majick275]

It seems pretty clear that you view the dissolving of family ties as a good thing. Perhaps you view the family as some sort of impediment to worship or perfection.

how could you possibly come to that conclusion based on catholic doctrine? I said that our state would improved. our heavenly relationships will be better.

No one has really answered my question. I think it would be okay for Catholics to believe that family bonds are honoured in the hereafter but the posters to the board are not truly representative of Catholic thinking. They’re sort of their own little group. They’re like the monks who take a vow of silence or of poverty but are in all other ways traditional Catholics. You guys are like traditional Catholics except you all have taken a vow to be contrary to LDS teachings. Maybe you should get together and build a monestary.

that’s awful snippy. we did answer the question and our answers were in line with the catechism. we will not be LIMITED by the earthly concept of family bonds. we will truly become ONE happy family in heaven. Whereas the LDS believe that everyone (who achieves exaltation) will be in incestuous, polygamous relationships that place them in parent child relationships with their siblings instead of their real parents (elohim and his wives) the Celestial beings will all be in different places than their families so what good the sealings?

At this point I think this discussion has descended into a Mormon bashfest so I’ll just bow out. I enjoy this forum, really I do, but sometimes you all go way over the line of what’s respectful.

have you read zerinus posts? how about joseph smith in canonized scripture calling us all not only apostates but our creeds an abomination in the sight of God?

face it the LDS view of eternal progression and celestial marriage is not something that has biblical support or even makes sense.

 

[truthsilence]

On the surface the LDS church seems to put more emphasis on continuing family bonds beyond this life. Even more emphasis than on being with God forever it seems. Its almost like they don’t want anything to change from here to there. That’s on the surface. But then you look a little closer and the family relationships are inevitably dissolved to one point or another, due to the level of personal worthiness of each member of the family.

Even worse, consider the following scenario. A family is sealed for eternity and the mom dies. The dad meets a new gal and gets remarried. That second wife had been sealed to a former husband and they have grown children who were born in the covenant, so they were all sealed. But because the husband was abusive and they separated, the wife obtained a temple divorce and is free to be sealed to the one whose wife passed away. The new couple gets married in the temple and are sealed to each other. So now the wife/mom who passed away gets to share her husband/family in a polygamous afterlife. But more confusing than that, what happens to the children of the second wife? Who are they sealed to now?

What a muddled mess this becomes… when at first glance it all seemed so perfect. But wait, was it? And where was God in any of that?

 

[alanjeddy]

I sent the following letter to rmcmullan, a mormon:

When time gives way to eternity and you stand before Jesus, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, He who said nobody comes to the Father except through Me and he who has seen the Father has seen Me. Since mormons believe that Jesus is just another Adam, and not divine and not Christocentric, I ask you what will you say to Him as you stand in judgement?

Now you have to understand mormons deny Jesus’ divinity. They believe that they can one day, through spiritual progression, become Gods and they will have dominion over their creation.

Here is rmcmullan’s response to me: I’ll tell him (notice the lower case h) I forgave that Alan J. Eddy guy who really made a pest out of himself.
Sorry Mr. Jeddy, but I’m not that interested in a private conversation with you.

 

[truthsilence]

alanjeddy, It isn’t right to post a pm on the public forum.

 

[lukewarm]

I sent the following letter to rmcmullan, a mormon:

When time gives way to eternity and you stand before Jesus, who is the Way, the Truth and the Life, He who said nobody comes to the Father except through Me and he who has seen the Father has seen Me. Since mormons believe that Jesus is just another Adam, and not divine and not Christocentric, I ask you what will you say to Him as you stand in judgement?

Now you have to understand mormons deny Jesus’ divinity. They believe that they can one day, through spiritual progression, become Gods and they will have dominion over their creation.

Here is rmcmullan’s response to me: I’ll tell him (notice the lower case h) I forgave that Alan J. Eddy guy who really made a pest out of himself.
Sorry Mr. Jeddy, but I’m not that interested in a private conversation with you.

Mormons do believe Jesus is divine and God’s son, also Catholic doctrine is heavily leaning towards Jesus as the new Adam and Mary as the new Eve, it doesn’t take away Jesus divinity.

 

[truthsilence]

Mormons do believe Jesus is divine and God’s son, also Catholic doctrine is heavily leaning towards Jesus as the new Adam and Mary as the new Eve, it doesn’t take away Jesus divinity.

Yes, not to beat up on you alanjeddy but its true LDS do believe Jesus is the Son of God and they do believe He is a divine Redeemer and Savior of this world.

 

[alanjeddy]

Yes, not to beat up on you alanjeddy but its true LDS do believe Jesus is the Son of God and they do believe He is a divine Redeemer and Savior of this world.

I beg your pardon as Catholics yes we believe that Adam is the prefigurement of Jesus but Adam was not Devine. Believe me mormons do not believe in the divinety of Jesus. My wife was a mormon and I debated with their missonaries even in the presence of my parish priest. They wanted to meet him.

 

[alanjeddy]

While I don’t adhere to Mormon doctrine and I do consider them “heretical” just like they would consider me as a Catholic heretical your statement is inaccurate. Mormon’s definitely consider Jesus divine and the Son of God, Jesus is also their savior. Now thier idea of God and what eactly that means is completely different than ours, but that doesn’t change the fact that they believe that Jesus is the only begotten son of thier God.

I don’t know where you are getting your information but my wife was a mormon and I had mormon missionaries in my house on a weelkly basis.

They believe in the Heavenly Father but not in a Trinitarian theological manner. They believe that one day they will attain godhood through eternal progression and have dominion over their creation.