I also find it odd that many people, particularly fundamentalist Christians, will use “thee and thou” when praying, considering it to be somehow more formal or God-honoring.
Yeah, Catholics do too, such as in the Hail Mary. Though I don’t think I’ve ever had a sense that using Elizabethan English in Catholic prayers is considered more God-honoring. I just think it comes from long usage. (?) I could be wrong.
I don’t see it that way, but I do appreciate Bible translations that use thee and thou. I don’t think you’re correct about “you” being formal and “thou” informal. The difference is that thee, thou, thy, thine, and so on were 2nd person singular pronouns while you, your, and yours were 2nd person plural pronouns. Even before the KJV was written, thees and thous were old-fashioned (the word “you” having already been adopted as the common form for both singular and plural 2nd person pronouns), but they do help in differentiating whether in a particular Bible passage speech or instructions were being addressed to a single individual or to a group.
"Going back into the days of Old and Middle English, there were two forms of address in the second person: thou and ye. Thou was singular, and ye was plural. The objective singular was thee, and the objective plural was you. There weren’t any additional connotations to this usage. The Norman Conquest of 1066 introduced French as the vernacular of law, government, and “refined” literature; English gradually absorbed more French words into its lexicon, and with them, more French conventions.
One of those conventions was using the plural pronoun to address royalty and other high nobility. Over time, this norm became more generalized, used in formal social situations when addressing any stranger or social superior. Meanwhile, you gradually supplanted ye and began to be used singularly as well as formally. Thus, around the 1200s, Middle English developed a distinction between thou and you.
Such distinctions remain in both French (tu/vous) and German (du/Sie). There is an informal “you” that one uses with those one knows, and a more polite, reserved “you” that one uses in other company. Thou and you at some point in Middle English operated the same way. Thou would have been used by those of higher standing addressing those beneath them (such as a master addressing a servant) or commoners addressing one another. You, on the other hand, would have been used by those of lower social standing addressing those above them (such as a child addressing a parent) or by the upper class addressing one another. Thou implied intimacy; you implied a polite reserve. Although this pattern of formal distinction didn’t embed itself as firmly in English as it did in other European languages, it did exist for a time.
As this distinction signified respect, it would have been something of a social faux pas when the convention was broken. A master addressing a servant with you might have raised eyebrows in the thirteenth century. Among the upper class, using thou could have been considered a sign of disrespect. For a subordinate to use thou when addressing a superior, however, such familiarity would at best be considered presumptuous—and more likely boorish. Likewise, the use of thou could be considered condescending or insulting when used in a more formal situation.
The clearest example of this in Shakespeare is Sir Toby Belch’s line in Twelfth Night, when he eggs on Sir Andrew Aguecheek to challenge Viola with “if thou thou’st him some thrice, it shall not be amiss.” Not only is Sir Toby telling Sir Andrew to insult Viola with thou, Sir Toby himself is slyly insulting Sir Andrew by using thou with his peer. Shakespeare intentionally plays upon the significance of thou in this scene." From
here.
The New World Translation used by Jehovah’s Witnesses has an interesting solution to this–they use a lower case “you” when an individual is addressed but write it in small capital letters when the pronoun is plural. You get a more modern sounding translation, yet retain easy recognition of the singular vs. plural distinction.
Interesting. Thanks.
