Mormons become God's after death....

[nancy_dalrymple]

I come into agreement with you in the name of Jesus:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
Creator of Heaven and Earth
And in Jesus Christ
His only Son, Our Lord
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit
Born of the Virgin Mary
Suffered under Pontius Pilate
Was crucified, died and was buried.
On the third day, he rose again
He ascended into Heaven
and is seated at the right hand
of God, the Father Almighty.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the Holy Catholic Church,
the Communion of Saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

 

[ThurifAcolyte]

ThuriferAcolyte,

I realize you don’t think the above has internal inconsistency, but I think it does. How can “three coherent persons” be “inseparable from each other” if those words mean what they mean in English usage? To be coherent would be to be individually identifiable. To be individually identifiable would be to be “separable” in terms of their identity. They can be one in purpose, one in “substance” if substance means “the qualities that make God, God”, but they would be individually identifiable. Plus, the use of the terms “mystery of the oikonomia” sets up a mystery of what one is supposed to believe. That word is not from the Bible or anything close to the Bible. I think it is an intellectually dishonest word.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=5784708&postcount=74

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

I sure hope Parker reads that it is a good site, also i got this for him because i know he was trying to see how much i knew about my faith and i will admit i am new back to the church this year, i have made mistakes because i have been out of the church for a while so i am learning to. This ones for you Parker!

Mormon Godhead
December 30, 2008 by DH
Filed under LDS Beliefs
Leave a Comment

Are there three or is there just one? Is Joseph Smith part of your Godhead (aka Trinity)? One doctrine that is disagreed upon all over the Christian world is that of the Godhead or Holy Trinity. Who is part of this, are they different persons, what is the purpose, and other questions abound concerning this very important doctrine. Mormons no doubt stand alone and apart in their views on the Godhead and I want to attempt to clarify in a very brief and simple way what is actually believed by Mormons.

The Godhead, as it is referred to within The Mormon Church, is made up of three separate and distinct personages. These personages consist of God the Father, Jesus Christ his Son and the Holy Ghost. Both the God the Father and Jesus Christ have perfect and immortal bodies of flesh and bones. The Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones but is a spirit personage. This is set forth in Doctrine and Covenants 130:22:

 

[benedictus2]

dianaiad;5782293:

*Y’know, Nancy, that you think so doesn’t surprise me one bit. How about doing a little research before you present yourself as an expert? *

I think that your granddaughter might appreciate that.

*Oh…by the way, As far as I am aware Catholics also teach the principle of tithing. Just so you know. *

Yes but they don’t take it out of your pay chech even if you are not working so much

Dianaid, Catholics do not tithe.

Tithe is a tenth part of something, more usually one’s income. No Catholic is required to put in a tenth of their income. Some probably do and some probably put in a dollar out of every thousand dollars they earn. Contribution in the Catholic Church is not compulsory. This is why the collection baskets are usually heavy because quite a lot put in coins..

As a matter of fact, In some Catholic groups such as the Neo Catechumenate you are even allowed to put your hand into the bag and take money out if you desperately need it. Some monasteries operate in the same manner.

 

[dianaiad]

The Eucharistic Sacrifice

---

Nancy, you don’t have to prove to me that you believe that Christ has a physical body, or that Catholicism teaches this. I am very aware of that. I am simply telling you that I have been debating with Christians of many different beliefs for close to half a century now, and almost every one of the evangelistic Christians (and a few Catholics) argue that He does NOT have a body. I think it is because they slide into modalistic thought.

You don’t have to convince ME that He has one. I agree that He does!

 

[dianaiad]

Dianaid, Catholics do not tithe.

Tithe is a tenth part of something, more usually one’s income. No Catholic is required to put in a tenth of their income. Some probably do and some probably put in a dollar out of every thousand dollars they earn. Contribution in the Catholic Church is not compulsory. This is why the collection baskets are usually heavy because quite a lot put in coins..

As a matter of fact, In some Catholic groups such as the Neo Catechumenate you are even allowed to put your hand into the bag and take money out if you desperately need it. Some monasteries operate in the same manner.

I did not say that it was required. I said that it was taught.

 

[dianaiad]

I sure hope Parker reads that it is a good site, also i got this for him because i know he was trying to see how much i knew about my faith and i will admit i am new back to the church this year, i have made mistakes because i have been out of the church for a while so i am learning to. This ones for you Parker!

Mormon Godhead
December 30, 2008 by DH
Filed under LDS Beliefs
Leave a Comment

Are there three or is there just one? Is Joseph Smith part of your Godhead (aka Trinity)?

Nancy, you claim to be an expert on Mormonism, and you can actually ask THAT?

Every time you post, you confirm your ignorance of our beliefs.

One doctrine that is disagreed upon all over the Christian world is that of the Godhead or Holy Trinity.

Only if you pull a ‘true scott’ and claim that only ‘true Christians’ believe in the Trinty as taught by Catholicism. Many Christians do not believe in the Trinity in that way.

Who is part of this, are they different persons, what is the purpose, and other questions abound concerning this very important doctrine. Mormons no doubt stand alone and apart in their views on the Godhead and I want to attempt to clarify in a very brief and simple way what is actually believed by Mormons.

That would be unwise, Nancy. If you can actually ask if Joseph Smith is ‘part of the Godhead,’ you have proven that you don’t know enough to say anything at all about what is 'actually believed by Mormons."

The Godhead, as it is referred to within The Mormon Church, is made up of three separate and distinct personages. These personages consist of God the Father, Jesus Christ his Son and the Holy Ghost. Both the God the Father and Jesus Christ have perfect and immortal bodies of flesh and bones. The Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones but is a spirit personage. This is set forth in Doctrine and Covenants 130:22:

Yes, this is accurate…who did you quote it from?

 

[Zundrah]

Hi, Zundrah,
I liked the apostrophe in the heading you made for this thread, which provided a double entendre that was quite nice. Way to do that, if inadvertantly.

Damn you! It was a typing error!

In answer to your question, John 5:19 says:
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

ParkerD, please, I have the book of mormon at home. Could you please give me verses or something in relation to this topic so I can read it up? Thank you.

I realize one such as yourself feels some sense of apprehension about thinking about the words in the Bible on your own, without feeling like someone is looking over your shoulder ready to say “shame on you” at any moment.

Well yes this is very true, no one really feels that they can read the scriptures and interpretate them personally. Especially being catholic.

But if you’ll think for yourself, and really realize that God wants to have such a personal relationship with you that there is no need to fear that someone is “looking over your shoulder,” then you can understand the very simple concept that a Son becomes like His Father,

Okay, I can sort of see where you are going. I’m amamzed that you are explaining this so very well to me.

especially a Perfect Son of a Perfect Father.

But he was God. Do mormons believe that too?

Christ taught this in so many ways, over and over again in the New Testament. He became like His Father when He was truly, in very deed, resurrected.

But once again, that’s because he was God.

Can you understand that God can be in a human body, in a spirit and ultimately still be himself at the same time? eg The Holy Trinity; God in three different forms but still only one person (one soul but three bodies), God head three in one?

Have a good evening, Jennifer.

And you too ParkerD. Thank you for your time and patience.

which is what all christians believe

Excuse me, but that is not true…

 

[Bill_Pick]

Oh, but that’s not the problem at all, Chris.

Over a Billion people believe in the True Church - the Catholic Church, which God founded.

The problem is with groups like mormons and jeehovahs and others who are lost down dirt roads; those who believe in false prophets - the same bogus false prophets that God warned us about.

Please let us know if any mormons have the faith and the courage to actually converse here. I won’t hold my breath.

Meanwhile, I’ve shown you the “problem”.

The cult of “mormonism” is a minor problem, because the population is so dramatically small in the world, but it is a worry that even ONE mormon believes in Joe Smith or any of that hogwash.

Very sad.

Amen Well said

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Nancy, you don’t have to prove to me that you believe that Christ has a physical body, or that Catholicism teaches this. I am very aware of that. I am simply telling you that I have been debating with Christians of many different beliefs for close to half a century now, and almost every one of the evangelistic Christians (and a few Catholics) argue that He does NOT have a body. I think it is because they slide into modalistic thought.

You don’t have to convince ME that He has one. I agree that He does!

And with that body yet he was able to walk through a wall, can you figure this out dianaiad? Because his body was Glorified that’s why, and do you realy think Father God would have to appear as a man and inituate sex to concieve this Son? The Holy Spirit put this into Mary not a man with a body! You people have warped minds of My Father and i am insulted just to think of it. He is all powerful and omnipresent, ETC he does not need to be a human man to create the human body and he did not have sex with EVE either like i herd you people brag about. Those are mixed with mason beliefs and babalonian. Jesus said you can say what you want about me but do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit!

 

[dianaiad]

Yes but they don’t take it out of your pay chech even if you are not working so much

Neither does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Tithing is not mandatory with us, either; no contracts, no signing over anything. Nobody knows if you are paying tithing or not, because there is no offering plate during the service.

One writes a check, puts it in an envelope and hands it to one of the members of the Bishopric or to the ward clerk. There is no ceremony to it; you can mail it if you want to. Many people do. I’ve noticed that children like to make a bit of a big deal of it when they pay their tithing… It’s special to them.

Once a year you are invited to attend "tithing settlement,’ where you can compare the church records with your own to make certain that everything is accurate, so that you can get a reciept to hand the IRS. Many people wait until that settlement to pay the full year’s tithing. More don’t.

When you have an interview for a Temple recomend, you will be asked if you pay a full tithing. The Bishop will take your word for it if you say ‘yes,’ even if he hasn’t seen a penny from you. Only full tithe payers can get a Temple recommend.

Does that help clear a few things up?

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Neither does the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Tithing is not mandatory with us, either; no contracts, no signing over anything. Nobody knows if you are paying tithing or not, because there is no offering plate during the service.

One writes a check, puts it in an envelope and hands it to one of the members of the Bishopric or to the ward clerk. There is no ceremony to it; you can mail it if you want to. Many people do. I’ve noticed that children like to make a bit of a big deal of it when they pay their tithing… It’s special to them.

Once a year you are invited to attend "tithing settlement,’ where you can compare the church records with your own to make certain that everything is accurate, so that you can get a reciept to hand the IRS. Many people wait until that settlement to pay the full year’s tithing. More don’t.

When you have an interview for a Temple recomend, you will be asked if you pay a full tithing. The Bishop will take your word for it if you say ‘yes,’ even if he hasn’t seen a penny from you. Only full tithe payers can get a Temple recommend.

Does that help clear a few things up?

Thank you for the information, is the recommend: when you get to go to the big temple and baptize your relatives? I already had my dead daughter baptized as a Catholic, and she should not be re done, and there is only ONE Baptism! ONE!

 

[dianaiad]

And with that body yet he was able to walk through a wall, can you figure this out dianaiad?

What’s the matter, Nancy? You having a bit of a problem taking ‘yes’ for an answer?

Because his body was Glorified that’s why, and do you realy think Father God would have to appear as a man and inituate sex to concieve this Son?

No, actually, I don’t, because He didn’t have sex with Mary in order for her to concieve His Son. Though it doesn’t surprise me a bit that you are claiming that we teach that. You seem to have obtained all your other information about us from incredibly inaccurate and stupid sources…this one is pretty typical. WRONG, of course, but typical. Right up there with “Catholics worship Idols.”

The Holy Spirit put this into Mary not a man with a body! You people have warped minds of My Father and i am insulted just to think of it.

Well, so am I. Something tells me, however, that your response isn’t going to be relief that we don’t teach that God had sex with Mary. Wanna bet, anybody else who is reading this, that Nancy is going to come back with some version of “you do TOO believe this!!” ???

Or that, having been corrected in this matter by me, she will simply wait a week, or a few days, pretend that she was NOT corrected, and accuse some other poor Mormon of believing that God had sex with Mary?

He is all powerful and omnipresent, ETC he does not need to be a human man to create the human body and he did not have sex with EVE either like i herd you people brag about.

WHAT???

You have GOT to be kidding me. Nancy, I give up, you got me.
You have successfully trolled me, caught me, and made me look like a royal fool.

Congratulations.

Those are mixed with mason beliefs and babalonian. Jesus said you can say what you want about me but do not blaspheme the Holy Spirit!

Well, sweetie, I have been rather patient with you. Really, I have…but enough is enough. Either find out what our beliefs actually are, and then come argue with me, or ask me what our beliefs are and THEN argue with me.

But stop making these incredibly assinine claims, OK? If you are serious, you look like an idiot, and if you aren’t, I look like one. Frankly, I’m not comfortable with either option.

 

[dianaiad]

Thank you for the information, is the recommend: when you get to go to the big temple and baptize your relatives? I already had my dead daughter baptized as a Catholic, and she should not be re done, and there is only ONE Baptism! ONE!

Yes, it is.

…and you are quite right. There is only one. Since you believe it is the one your daughter had, you don’t need to worry about anything we do, do you? Remember, we believe that those for whom we perform proxy baptisms have the absolute right to choose whether or not to accept them, even if they DID ‘work.’

Therefore, if you are correct and we are not, your daughter is fine…and won’t even know we have done anything. (If, that is, we have.) If WE are correct, then according to our beliefs your daughter has the absolute right to say ‘no, thank you.’ and refuse it. Niether you nor your daughter lose either way, do you?

Diana

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

People, some one did not listen or may be just got caught?
We know that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints can get sorta wackadoodle at times, but this is downright ridiculous!

Turns out certain members of the Mormon Church went ahead and had President Barack Obama’s late mother, who was Catholic, posthumously baptized last June!

Are they even allowed to perform baptisms without the permission of the family???

Stanley Ann Dunham, who passed away in 1995 from cancer is listed on the Mormon Church’s genealogical site FamilySearch.org as being baptized on June 4th of 2008.

Kim Farah, official spokeswoman for the LDS Church has issued the following statement on the illegitimate baptism:

“The offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related. The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such.”

The White House has chosen to make no comment on the controversy, respectfully.

[Image via WENN.]

Posted: May 6, 2009 at 11:45 am

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Yes, it is.

…and you are quite right. There is only one. Since you believe it is the one your daughter had, you don’t need to worry about anything we do, do you? Remember, we believe that those for whom we perform proxy baptisms have the absolute right to choose whether or not to accept them, even if they DID ‘work.’

Therefore, if you are correct and we are not, your daughter is fine…and won’t even know we have done anything. (If, that is, we have.) If WE are correct, then according to our beliefs your daughter has the absolute right to say ‘no, thank you.’ and refuse it. Niether you nor your daughter lose either way, do you?

Diana

I’m afraid it wont be Robin you will be Baptizing in your temple, i know of the thing’'s that have been claimed to happen there Like spooks all around. People that have gone there have seen alot of dead people, but i say Absent from the body Present with the Lord. you can’t take what God’s got! Get thee behind me satan! She is God’s property and you can’t redo anything.

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

Here is the statement of BY’s that JFS supports:
“When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, the Father had begotten him in
his own likeness. He was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. And who is the
Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he (Christ) took a
tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in Heaven, AFTER THE SAME MANNER as
the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam
and Eve. Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same
character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven.”
(JoD 1:50-51, also “Answers”, vol. 5, p. 121).

To illustrate more clearly that BY meant that Christ’s conception was actual
physical sex, here is another of his statements:
“The birth of our Savior was as natural as are the births of our children; it
was the result of NATURAL ACTION. He partook of FLESH AND BLOOD–was begotten
of his father, as we were of our fathers.” (JoD, vol. 8, p. 115).

Here are a few more quotes from the 1962 Gospel Doctrine Sunday School Lesson
Manual “Gospel Living in the Home,” p. 16-17:
“Jesus Christ is the Son of Elohim both as spiritual and bodily OFFSPRING; that
is to say, Elohim is LITERALLY the Father of the spirit of Jesus Christ and
also of the BODY in which Jesus Christ performed his mission in the flesh…”
(as quoted from ‘The Articles of Faith’ by James E. Talmage, p. 466).

“We are told in the scriptures that Jesus Christ is the only begotten son of
God in the flesh…how are children begotten? I answer, just as Jesus was
begotten of his Father. The Christian denominations believe that Christ was
begotten not of God, but of the spirit that overshadowed his mother. THIS IS
NONSENSE. Why will they not believe the Father when He says that Jesus Christ
is His Only Begotten Son? Why will they try to EXPLAIN THIS TRUTH AWAY and
make mystery of it?” (as quoted from Joseph F. Smith, ‘Box Elder Times,’ Sep.
22, 1914).

 

[nancy_dalrymple]

And another statement from this same 1974 lesson manual, distributed to tens of
thousands of LDS Institute students: “She, (Mary), heavy with child, traveled
all that distance on mule-back, guarded and protected as one about to give
birth to A HALF-DEITY. No other man in the history of this world of ours has
ever had such an ancestry–God the Father on the one hand and Mary the Virgin
on the other.”

I repeat a quote from Ezra Taft Benson from 1988, published while he was
president of the LDS church: “The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in THE MOST LITERAL SENSE. The
body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was SIRED by that same Holy
Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father.” (Teachings of ET Benson, p. 6).

Someone wrote here on ARM that the idea of God having sex with Mary was
‘repugnant’, etc. When the entire scope of the theology is laid out, it should
not be repugnant to Mormons at all, as it ties in completely with the doctrines
of pre-existence, eternal marriage, deification, plural marriage, etc. With
the abundance of consistent statements on the subject, from a plethora of LDS
leaders over the years, it’s difficult to dismiss the concept as mere
‘speculation.’ The quote from Harold B. Lee that someone
furnished is the only one I have seen saying that Mormons should not
‘speculate’ about it. Lee did not deny the concept; he merely advised not to
discuss it. And as I quote above, church-dispensed lesson manuals have taught
the same idea since Lee’s 1972 death.

True, none of these quotes say specifically that God and Mary had sex in
clinical terms, but in my opinion, considering the quotes in totality, it’s
naive to deny the implication. It has only been a few decades since pregnancy
was described with code terms such as ‘expecting,’ ‘with child’, or ‘in a
family way.’ LDS leaders were clearly following the etiquette of their day by
not using the actual term ‘sexual intercourse’.
Considering the volume of this consistent teaching, in my opinion, Mormons who
do NOT agree with this teaching are the ones who are ‘speculating.’

The only reason I can fathom as to why Mormons are now denying or backpedaling
from this teaching is that it doesn’t comport with the LDS church’s continual
efforts to rid itself of its quaint, unique doctrines, in order to gain
increased acceptance from the rest of the Christian world, and in turn, gain
more converts.

But my opinion is that if this teaching is dumped, then it cuts the heart out
of the basic Mormon plan of salvation and ‘eternal progression’, and Mormonism
will eventually become just another Protestant denomination.

Time will tell.

I think it’s also ironic that Gordon B. Hinckley, in a recent General Conference, said
“We must not compromise on our doctrines,” when that appears to be exactly what
the LDS church is doing.

 

[dianaiad]

People, some one did not listen or may be just got caught?
We know that members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints can get sorta wackadoodle at times, but this is downright ridiculous!

Turns out certain members of the Mormon Church went ahead and had President Barack Obama’s late mother, who was Catholic, posthumously baptized last June!

Are they even allowed to perform baptisms without the permission of the family???

Stanley Ann Dunham, who passed away in 1995 from cancer is listed on the Mormon Church’s genealogical site FamilySearch.org as being baptized on June 4th of 2008.

Kim Farah, official spokeswoman for the LDS Church has issued the following statement on the illegitimate baptism:

“The offering of baptism to our deceased ancestors is a sacred practice to us and it is counter to Church policy for a Church member to submit names for baptism for persons to whom they are not related. The Church is looking into the circumstances of how this happened and does not yet have all the facts. However, this is a serious matter and we are treating it as such.”

The White House has chosen to make no comment on the controversy, respectfully.

[Image via WENN.]

Posted: May 6, 2009 at 11:45 am

I see. So your objection to our saying that doing this without permission of the family is counter to our policies and beliefs is…what, exactly?

 

[dianaiad]

I’m afraid it wont be Robin you will be Baptizing in your temple, i know of the thing’'s that have been claimed to happen there Like spooks all around. People that have gone there have seen alot of dead people, but i say Absent from the body Present with the Lord. you can’t take what God’s got! Get thee behind me satan! She is God’s property and you can’t redo anything.

Nancy, you have called Mormons 'wackadoodle" right her on this thread. May I return the favor? This post of yours is about as wackadoodle as I’ve ever seen.