Mormons Building Temple in Vatican's Backyard

[xixxvmcm85]

youtube.com/watch?v=1MgUCQ2pXnE

this video. at about 1:55

Oh, I was hoping for an actual admission from the LDS Church that they indeed are intending to put a cross on the door.

I can see why some might interpret the door in that shot (of a model, mind you) resembling a cross, but it could also be simply a square facade on the door that resembles a cross to those who are looking for it. My own front door has a cross on it too! Or is it four squares?

I don’t pay much heed to arguments to optics, lest I succumb to conspiracy theories

 

[RebeccaJ]

Oh, I was hoping for an actual admission from the LDS Church that they indeed are intending to put a cross on the door.

I can see why some might interpret the door in that shot (of a model, mind you) resembling a cross, but it could also be simply a square facade on the door that resembles a cross to those who are looking for it. My own front door has a cross on it too! Or is it four squares?

I don’t pay much heed to arguments to optics, lest I succumb to conspiracy theories

historichouseblog.com/2009/01/29/the-christian-or-cross-bible-historic-door/

I agree that Mormons don’t see a cross. The front door on my parent’s house for my entire childhood was a 6 panel door. One day I saw a history program where they were showing that the 4 and 6 raised-panel doors grew in popularity in the USA because the symbol of the cross. I never saw my parent’s door the same after that, but prior to that time, the idea never struck me, at all.

 

[JeanMichel]

Hi Cat Herder - But this temple will have a visitor’s center and gardens so those in town to see the sights will likely find an open door. And, my guess, a shuttle bus waiting at the Vatican to bring them on over.
Or at least Mormon billboards advertising “I am a Mormon” with a picture of an Italian family hugging on their front porch…or t.v. ads showing an Italian artist or something showing that he is a Mormon…just to highlight how diverse they really are.
(A religion that advertises…???)
Why the cross? Wow - they are always changing aren’t they?

A religion that advertises? I guess you missed the best commercials on television inviting people to come home to the Holy Mother Church. And your criticism about Catholics advertising is what??? I reject totally the type of infantile criticism that can be leveled against the Church itself. Why would you level this criticism unless you think the ignorant will be influenced. Then when the ignorant see the Catholic Church advertising what will they think? Oh, my church is just the same as the Mormon Church; it too must be false. Stop it!

All business men??? Thank you above for clarifying that the Mormon church has lawyers, doctors, educators, airline pilots, etc. as their leaders. They are no more better or worse than the talented group of priests or lay leaders in our own church.

If one is going to level a criticism, be sure you know what you are talking about or you will lead astray those you would prefer to lead toward Christ.

 

[KathleenGee]

Really, Jean Michael…

Have you ever seen the literature put out by the LDS on our church or other Christian churches…we are corrupt, we are an abomination and denying any good mainline Christianity has done in 2,000 years. That is dishonest.

I have read of the difficulties young Mormons had in the past passing out brochures in front of Catholic churches in Italy, and the reaction they got from those at Mass. They felt very bad for prosletyzing. do you see Catholics passing out literature at wards or temples??

Have you ever been to an RCIA class that indoctrinates people on what Catholicism is? I have read how people come into the Mormon church, are baptized, and then afterwards find out new doctrines. Bait and switch.

Why are people reacting to a grandiose Mormon temple in the Roman countryside? Have you seen the older LDS texts of the type of language directed at my faith?

Unfortunately, this denigrating of other faiths is no other than the denigrating you see of people opposing one country or another, or one class or ethnic group against another. It is not so much religion as it is human nature, and one upmanship.

And why did you decide to come to a Catholic forum? We are here to share our faith with others, considering the misinformation and bias non-Catholic individuals encounter all the time.

I have not yet in my entire ever seen tv commercials to come join the Catholic Church in the USA. I do think, though, the Catholic Church needs to speak out stronger against the sexual immorality and its destruction on our way of life, though.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Jean Michel, catholicscomehome.org is not owned or run by the Vatican. The advertising you see put out by Mormons is done so by a public relations department of the LDS church itself. It is marketing, pure and simple, as any American business would do.

When you find Catholics standing inside temple square in SLC handing out “Pillar of Truth, Pillar of Fire”, maybe there could be a comparison to how Mormons behave.

 

[ParkerD]

I would suppose that citizens of Rome would not be surprised at all that their city, with the largest population in Italy, the best international airport and the best transportation network, would be chosen as a sight for an LDS temple (if they had even noted such a building being built, at all–not that many other than LDS members–more than 20,000 in that country–would).

Others in other places might feel badly about the location, but I doubt that local Italians there would be surprised at all.

 

[KathleenGee]

The Italians really don’t know much about Mormonism…and they are oblivious to the different Protestant denominations…the one Christian denomination I know of is the Waldenses…

Mormons do not know how much Catholic culture has come out of the faith of Italian Christians. Italian Catholic culture literally dominates our culture…and coupled with the fact that most of our popes have been Italian.

The dud I feel in my heart is Mormonism’s issue with the ‘Roman Church’…the use of the word ‘stake’ — a territorial claim, and the architecture style placed in the Roman countryside where Mass has been celebrated for 2,000 years.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

I would suppose that citizens of Rome would not be surprised at all that their city, with the largest population in Italy, the best international airport and the best transportation network, would be chosen as a sight for an LDS temple (if they had even noted such a building being built, at all–not that many other than LDS members–more than 20,000 in that country–would).

Others in other places might feel badly about the location, but I doubt that local Italians there would be surprised at all.

Yeah, I’m having trouble seeing the nefarious intentions so many are quick to ascribe to the LDS Church here. I mean, really! If the LDS wanted to rub their noses at Catholics as the OP seems to imply, surely there’s a cheaper and more efficient way to do that than to spend millions of dollars on a building on the outskirts of town which the majority of Romans probably don’t even know exist, will never know exists, and will never get the chance to walk inside.

 

[JeanMichel]

Really, Jean Michael…

Have you ever seen the literature put out by the LDS on our church or other Christian churches…we are corrupt, we are an abomination and denying any good mainline Christianity has done in 2,000 years. That is dishonest.

I have read of the difficulties young Mormons had in the past passing out brochures in front of Catholic churches in Italy, and the reaction they got from those at Mass. They felt very bad for prosletyzing. do you see Catholics passing out literature at wards or temples??

Have you ever been to an RCIA class that indoctrinates people on what Catholicism is? I have read how people come into the Mormon church, are baptized, and then afterwards find out new doctrines. Bait and switch.

Why are people reacting to a grandiose Mormon temple in the Roman countryside? Have you seen the older LDS texts of the type of language directed at my faith?

Unfortunately, this denigrating of other faiths is no other than the denigrating you see of people opposing one country or another, or one class or ethnic group against another. It is not so much religion as it is human nature, and one upmanship.

And why did you decide to come to a Catholic forum? We are here to share our faith with others, considering the misinformation and bias non-Catholic individuals encounter all the time.

I have not yet in my entire ever seen tv commercials to come join the Catholic Church in the USA. I do think, though, the Catholic Church needs to speak out stronger against the sexual immorality and its destruction on our way of life, though.

Kathleen, if you have not seen the commercials by the Catholic Church then you have missed the best commericals on television. They were fantastic and it is a shame they are still not being run. I cannot help but believe that the simple invitation learn about the Church or to return to it was not effective. I suspect you can find them on youtube or elsewhere. They are worth searching for; when you see them you will find that I am not exaggerating.

My sole objective is to help Catholics be better critics, better apologists, and sharpen the manner in which they represent the Faith. It saddens me when I find such petty, uncharitable comments being made. This is a forum of Spirit and intelligence. It is not a blog where individuals can sake their thirst for revenge, and forget the message of love, redemption, salvation, and charity that is the message of the Church.

To attack another church about the moral character of their leaders as I have seen on other threads…particularly at this time in the history of the Church simply is not wise. It encourages the weak to question that which is a personal problem and make it a church problem.

I have been a scholar and a student of religion for more years than I care to count. I will learn little about other churches on this Forum, but what I can do, hope to do, pray to do, is to loving demonstrate the joy of living the Faith, the Peace that is Christ, and the Joy of living in communion with Him and the Saints.

It seems that this particular topic on this forum attracts a particularly nasty type of Catholic. Their criticisms are weak; however, they are without the Spirit, and they do not demonstrate the beauty of the Catholic Church. There is not need to strike out at “them”; there is a need to show loving patience as we proclaim the many truths of the Church. I think it was Smith himself that said, “Nothing is so much calculated to lead people to forsake sin as to take them by the hand, and watch over them with tenderness. When persons manifest the least kindness and love to me, O what power it has over my mind, while the opposite course has a tendency to harrow up all the harsh feelings and depress the human mind.” Let us touch the hearts of others with love, focus on the truth of the Church, and leave the condemning of falsehood to the Holy Spirit.

 

[JeanMichel]

Jean Michel, catholicscomehome.org is not owned or run by the Vatican. The advertising you see put out by Mormons is done so by a public relations department of the LDS church itself. It is marketing, pure and simple, as any American business would do.

When you find Catholics standing inside temple square in SLC handing out “Pillar of Truth, Pillar of Fire”, maybe there could be a comparison to how Mormons behave.

You think this makes a difference? Catholics come home is the cover you are using? How much difference do you think others will see? Do you really think they will hit the forehead and say, “Oh, well now I understand how that dirty, nasty Mormon church acts like a corporation, Shame on them.” But when they see the Come home commercials they will say, “Isn’t that a lovely message, sure glad the Vatican did not do that. This does not look like those dirty Mormons.” Please. That holds as much intellectual honesty as a fish net. The love of Christ is not in this position you take, but it is ego alone.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Jean Michel, catholicscomehome.org is not owned or run by the Vatican. The advertising you see put out by Mormons is done so by a public relations department of the LDS church itself. It is marketing, pure and simple, as any American business would do.

I think this is a pretty dubious distinction. The core of the two messages are the same, but you’re taking cause with who executes it? So essentially you’re faulting the LDS for being more coordinated than the Catholics?

When you find Catholics standing inside temple square in SLC handing out “Pillar of Truth, Pillar of Fire”, maybe there could be a comparison to how Mormons behave.

When I was a Mormon I did in fact experience some Catholic proselytizers outside of the Oakland, California temple. They of course were the exception and not the rule, and thankfully I never conflated these individuals’ actions with the will of the Catholic Church.

I haven’t experienced the same with any LDS (maybe I’ve been lucky?).

 

[JeanMichel]

I would suppose that citizens of Rome would not be surprised at all that their city, with the largest population in Italy, the best international airport and the best transportation network, would be chosen as a sight for an LDS temple (if they had even noted such a building being built, at all–not that many other than LDS members–more than 20,000 in that country–would).

Others in other places might feel badly about the location, but I doubt that local Italians there would be surprised at all.

I have not been to Rome this year yet, but I suspect that it has not even registered in the minds of the average Italian. Its location is so far out of the way, that only Mormons will find it. This is a tempest in a teapot. May God bless them and guide them to truth. May the building be beautiful and may it glorify God.

Throughout our history we have had those who were zealous and did violence to others in order to keep the purity of the Church alive. Suffice it to say that the majority are people of faith and recognize that each of us is in God’s hands. His will will be done and the Holy Spirit will proclaim the truth of the Church at all times. May we each remember the love of Christ and share it with others. Walls crumble, truth prevails when we walk with Christ.

 

[RebeccaJ]

The love of Christ is not in this position you take, but it is ego alone.

If you aren’t able to understand the difference between the two scenarios, that is not my problem. If you think anyone cares about the difference, or not, I’d say you wouldn’t know…that you are projecting your own distaste of all religion onto the entire world.

Blanket everything with a reduction of Christianity, which states we’re participants in a kumbayah fest meant to make you feel good about yourself.

I don’t know why anyone would need religion for that.

 

[lax16]

A religion that advertises? I guess you missed the best commercials on television inviting people to come home to the Holy Mother Church. And your criticism about Catholics advertising is what??? I reject totally the type of infantile criticism that can be leveled against the Church itself. Why would you level this criticism unless you think the ignorant will be influenced. Then when the ignorant see the Catholic Church advertising what will they think? Oh, my church is just the same as the Mormon Church; it too must be false. Stop it!

Yes, I did miss those commercials. I would have liked to see them. When did they run?
However, the ads I am referring to are not the ones on t.v. (I don’t watch it so if they are running there I don’t know about them). I am referring to the youtube infomercials advertising “I am a Mormon” on Catholic websites such as New Advent and CatholicMom -they have since been pulled. I am not even going to pretend to understand your rant, however it was very odd to find these Mormon advertisements on Catholic websites.
This is a blatant attempt to convert Catholics referring to those websites for information on the Catholic religion.
So, that is why I leveled a criticism.

All business men??? Thank you above for clarifying that the Mormon church has lawyers, doctors, educators, airline pilots, etc. as their leaders. They are no more better or worse than the talented group of priests or lay leaders in our own church.

I have no idea what you are talking about - I think you have me mixed up with another poster?

If one is going to level a criticism, be sure you know what you are talking about or you will lead astray those you would prefer to lead toward Christ.

I know exactly what I am talking about but am not sure what you are doing - except leveling criticism? I am not leading anyone astray my friend and I can tell you Mormon informercials on Catholic websites are for that purpose only. Wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[KathleenGee]

JeanMichael,

Glad you like Catholic commercials but we haven’t seen them here, and we always advised to just live our faith out and grow in relationship with other people.

You are also bypassing the construct of Mormonism and pointing me out as uncharitable for identifying it.

You need to apply that to the Mormons…We already affirm the good people many are. The issue is their perception of us and our corruption and how they are going to help Rome from itself…

 

[flyonthewall]

JeanMichael,
Glad you like Catholic commercials but we haven’t seen them here, and we always advised to just live our faith out and grow in relationship with other people.

You are also bypassing the construct of Mormonism and pointing me out as uncharitable for identifying it.

You need to apply that to the Mormons…We already affirm the good people many are. The issue is their perception of us and our corruption and how they are going to help Rome from itself…

Kathleen, how is our perception of other religions not having the fullness of the gospel different than the Catholic church stating that we are preaching another gospel? There is none, if there is any, it’s that we say that you have truth in your faith, but that is not reciprocated.
If you want to criticize, then try not to use a double standard.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Kathleen, how is our perception of other religions not having the fullness of the gospel different than the Catholic church stating that we are preaching another gospel? There is none, if there is any, it’s that we say that you have truth in your faith, but that is not reciprocated.
If you want to criticize, then try not to use a double standard.

A. The LDS Church’s perception of Christianity (including Catholicism) is that Christianity is totally corrupt with no valid endowments and no chance of salvation.

B. The Catholic Church’s perception of the rest of Christianity is that it lacks the full gospel but still has valid sacramental baptism and marriage.

C. The Catholic Church’s perception of the LDS Church is that Mormons have no valid sacraments but can nevertheless enter heaven given invincible ignorance.

A, B and C are totally different things.

 

[KathleenGee]

Flyonthewall and JeanMichael…

Cat Herder is communicating the issue…and the particular reaction we have by the placement of the new temple in the outskirts of Rome…it is a statement to us who know about the constructs of Mormonism.

However, Monsignor will answer back, well, there is the Madeleine on Temple St in SLC…so he says why not the Temple outside of Rome…and we all know about the Italian apathy…which is also about as disturbing…

 

[ParkerD]

A. The LDS Church’s perception of Christianity (including Catholicism) is that Christianity is totally corrupt with no valid endowments and no chance of salvation.

B. The Catholic Church’s perception of the rest of Christianity is that it lacks the full gospel but still has valid sacramental baptism and marriage.

C. The Catholic Church’s perception of the LDS Church is that Mormons have no valid sacraments but can nevertheless enter heaven given invincible ignorance.

A, B and C are totally different things.

Cat Herder,

What you don’t seem to understand as regards your point A is that the LDS Church says that Catholics and Protestants who live the teachings of the Bible will receive the salvation that they have been taught they will receive and have lived to receive–so, they not only “have a chance of salvation”, but they indeed “receive salvation.”

The desire of Heavenly Father (with no forced choice placed upon us) is that His children choose to prepare for exaltation, not just for salvation–exaltation being “to be like Christ”. So the fact that the Bible uses strong language about missing out on “exaltation” is so that there be no misunderstanding that there were the possibility and promises if the conditions were met for the promises to be fulfilled.

As to your point C, I have yet to find a Catholic who has a very deep knowledge of the Bible, at least on this forum. It is always surface level, yielding brief explanations that don’t hold up to close examination when the issues of translation and multiple cross-references (including use of the Old Testament) are brought up. I’ve done that many times on this forum, with the same result time after time.

 

[KathleenGee]

Hi Parker,

About the Bible readings…I draw on it, recognize the parts…but deliberately avoid using Bible quote against bible quote.

I have also read your posts regarding the priesthood…which is an area I need to study from and so don’t comment too much on it. But from what I know of the Catholic priesthood and also being in working and fraternal relationship with the clergy, I do not see any contradiction from Old Testament sources as well as the New.

Thank you for clarifying some aspects of our corruption…and i am not snide when I say that…but it is looking like what is corrupt is the Catholic priesthood then that is corrupt…

Is that then correct? Where are we corrupt then??