Mormons came to my door today

  • Thread starter Thread starter Madaglan
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Madaglan said:
Heresy and the Devil go hand in hand.
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I agree. Now we just need to agree on heresy. However, I do not support any relgious faith calling another faith a heresy. Heresy in the past, created violence between christians and those of similiar faiths, who may have disagreed with the majority. Was that of the devil?

Don’t forget the stake burnings and the poor plight of that french saint, Joan.
 
someone correct me on this, but I dont’ think heretics exist outside the faith. A buddhist wouldn’t be a heretic, nor a morman or moslem, or whatnot. A heretic would be along the lines of an Arian or gnostic who held the essentials of the faith but then got off into some distortion of it. If this be true then what whyme says about heresies in the past creating violence between Christians and those of similar faiths doesn’t add up. There are similarities among all the religions, but that doesn’t mean they are all equal.
 
why_me said:
This missionary must have missed RebeccaJ’s referenced ‘missionary salemanship’ course in Salt Lake. I wonder how he missed it? 🙂

Of course mormon missionaries have no such classes. Most missionaries still have teenage pimples and still many more are just a little goofy at times as they grow into young men.
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The Commitment Pattern and building relationships of trust:
Preparing people to feel the spirit is the most detailed step, and consists of (a) building relationships of trust (this one is talked about so frequently it has earned its own acronym in missionary lingo, BRT)
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compared to google results of “relationship of trust” salesman.
 
Ho-hum. Since I started ignoring why me’s posts, he has really gone to it, hasn’t he? Just because I thought he was a Mormon of Mitt Romney’s liberalness. :rolleyes: Why don’t the rest of you quit giving him the attention he wants.
 
Jerusha said:
Ho-hum. Since I started ignoring why me’s posts, he has really gone to it, hasn’t he? Just because I thought he was a Mormon of Mitt Romney’s liberalness. :rolleyes: Why don’t the rest of you quit giving him the attention he wants.
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Are you a little annoyed by my posts? You shouldn’t be. I am just trying to bring back christ’s love to the more antimormon catholics on this section of the forum. 🙂
 
why_me said:
A rumor is a rumor and nothing more. I have heard nothing of such a practice and if missionaries did do this, they would be reprimanded for doing so.

But nice try at spreading some unfounded rumors. :rolleyes:
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ummm, you have 2 former missionaries here telling you that they, as mormon missionaries, did this very practice. Wake up.
 
why_me said:
Thanks for the antimormon site. I have never heard of that site before. I will check with some missionaries…but I have a notion that the antimormon site is a bit overplayed.
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What, exactly, makes that site “antimormon”?
 
why_me said:
Are you a little annoyed by my posts? You shouldn’t be. I am just trying to bring back christ’s love to the more antimormon catholics on this section of the forum. 🙂
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Avoiding direct statements from exmormons is NOT “bringing back [C]hrist’s love” to anyone, whyme.

You are as blind as they come: read what we write. Then, either call us all liars or defend your ‘sect’s’ marketing campaign.

Hiding behind the skirts of “clouded judgements[sic]” says nothing, answers nothing and show everything about how poorly you know your own ‘faith’ and its teachings.

Robert
 
why_me said:
Are you a little annoyed by my posts? You shouldn’t be. I am just trying to bring back christ’s love to the more antimormon catholics on this section of the forum. 🙂
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Okay, I have to speak up here. It is our duty, as Christians to stand up for the truth. Pointing out truth, falsehoods, and/or doctrinal differences is not anti-mormon.
Calling names and bashing people might be construed that way. I don’t see that happening here.
 
why_me said:
Who may now be just a little clouded in their judgements. 🙂
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Can you read their minds? Have you walked in their shoes? Do you even know them? How can you possibly judge another persons experience as truthful or not when you don’t know them? Surely you can do better than this. You can’t argue with them, so you attack their character. This is a poor debating technique.
 
Originally Posted by why me:
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I agree. Now we just need to agree on heresy. However, I do not support any relgious faith calling another faith a heresy. Heresy in the past, created violence between christians and those of similiar faiths, who may have disagreed with the majority. Was that of the devil?
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Don’t forget the stake burnings and the poor plight of that french saint, Joan.
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So, are you saying that there is no heresy? Or, that there is heresy but that nobody should openly acknowledge this fact? The word “heretic” has negative connotations with it, and yes, in the past there have been religious wars. But (what’s worse in my opinion) is the doctrinal relativism that has swept across the Christian churches. Millions of Christians have previously died for what they believed, but now, from the widely held ecumenical standpoint, these deaths seem without meaning.

On stake burnings: Roman Catholics were not the only ones to burn heretics at the stake. Several Calvinists likewise executed Anabaptists, and I believe several Lutherans also persecuted religious minorities, such as the Socinians.

Joan of Arc was burnt at the stake–but the charge of heresy (or witchcraft) was trumped up. Political intrigue, not religious differences, was the main reason for her being executed.
 
mjf001 said:
Anything that is not pro mormon has to be antimormon.:hypno:
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Earlier, you provided me a link to read about the difference between private and public revelation. It was an interesting read and I believe helped me understand more about your position and I believe it was an honest statement from the Catholic church on this position.

However, you seem to think that all sites that speak out against the Mormon church are accurate and to be trusted. If a person points some of these sites may be inaccurate you scoff at this notion and make a statement like you did above.

As I mentioned, I am interested in how people find truth. I have come across a site that tells me the Catholic church is false and priest will try all kinds of tricks to keep people in the church. Based on the logic that these types of links are reliable sources of reading material is this the recommended path of those on this site to find information regarding the Catholic church?

jesus-messiah.com/html/cc-jesus-christ.html

So, in the effort of continuing our discussion on truth. Should I ignore the links from the Catholic church you provide and focus on these type of links instead to find the truth about the Catholic church or should I continue in actually speaking to Catholic members and reading what the Catholic church doctrine actually publishes? Perhaps anything that is not Pro Catholic is anti- Catholic?
 
StevenErickson said:
Earlier, you provided me a link to read about the difference between private and public revelation. It was an interesting read and I believe helped me understand more about your position and I believe it was an honest statement from the Catholic church on this position.

However, you seem to think that all sites that speak out against the Mormon church are accurate and to be trusted. If a person points some of these sites may be inaccurate you scoff at this notion and make a statement like you did above.

As I mentioned, I am interested in how people find truth. I have come across a site that tells me the Catholic church is false and priest will try all kinds of tricks to keep people in the church. Based on the logic that these types of links are reliable sources of reading material is this the recommended path of those on this site to find information regarding the Catholic church?

jesus-messiah.com/html/cc-jesus-christ.html

So, in the effort of continuing our discussion on truth. Should I ignore the links from the Catholic church you provide and focus on these type of links instead to find the truth about the Catholic church or should I continue in actually speaking to Catholic members and reading what the Catholic church doctrine actually publishes? Perhaps anything that is not Pro Catholic is anti- Catholic?
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I have had many conversations with LDS on and offline. Also, I come from that background. I know how I thought before I began seeing things from a different point of view and I know how I see things now. It is not for me to say whether a site as merit or not, unless I’m asked to give a specific opinion on a specific site. My feeling on the matter is the person looking at the site is responsible to do his/her due diligence. They should be educated enought to discern if there is a bias on a particular site. I am perfectly willing to concede there is a pro-Catholic bias on this site, as there should be. On and LDS site, you should assume the is a pro-LDS bias.
My comment, which you’re questioning has to do with my experiences with current LDS. The LDS people see themselves as a persecuted people. I can’t tell you the number of times in Sunday school where I heard about people being tarred and feathered and suffering all manner of persecutions simply because they were LDS. This creates a mentality amongst LDS people, which goes something like this. If you say anything which is not pro-LDS, it is automaticaly antimormon. This is what my post referred to in response to Whyme’s post. It was a comment on LDS culture, which I’m pretty familiar with.
I don’t visit antimormon sites, personally. I’m Catholic - this is the only religious site I visit. Prior to 2004, I might have. I had to satisfy for myself whether the LDS church was false. I read articles and Farms and Fair and I read some antimormon sites (at least that’s what most LDS would call them).
The only thing these other sites did was to introduce me to the issue of Joseph Smith’s character, which was later confirmed in an interview I heard by someone who wrote a book on Joseph Smith. It was RCIA which convinced me of the truth. For the first time in my life, I was getting answers to the questions I was asking. I wasn’t being asked to suppress my reason, I was being encouraged to use my reason. Sure, there was an element of faith involved, but it wasn’t entirely faith.
I do, however, reject the pro-LDs sites, simply because I don’t see a lot of truth on these sites. For me, that struggle ended a long time ago. The BoM is not of God. Joseph Smith doesn’t look like any prophet I read about in the Bible. My experience is, the arguments on these sites are devoid of facts. While you can’t judged a religion solely on the basis or absence of facts, it has to be a factor, as I’ve already pointed out before.
 
Thanks for your response.
mjf001 said:
The LDS people see themselves as a persecuted people. I can’t tell you the number of times in Sunday school where I heard about people being tarred and feathered and suffering all manner of persecutions simply because they were LDS. This creates a mentality amongst LDS people, which goes something like this. If you say anything which is not pro-LDS, it is automaticaly antimormon. This is what my post referred to in response to Whyme’s post. It was a comment on LDS culture, which I’m pretty familiar with.
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I think it is unfortunate to apply broad stereotypes to any group of people. Stereotypes are rarely acurate as a whole. I certainly will not dispute with you on your own experiences though. I have no reason to doubt your experience and they are yours. I can say that all LDS do not have a victim mentality though. I am quite familiar with them too 🙂
mjf001 said:
I do, however, reject the pro-LDs sites, simply because I don’t see a lot of truth on these sites. For me, that struggle ended a long time ago. The BoM is not of God. Joseph Smith doesn’t look like any prophet I read about in the Bible. My experience is, the arguments on these sites are devoid of facts. While you can’t judged a religion solely on the basis or absence of facts, it has to be a factor, as I’ve already pointed out before.
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I am not exactly sure what you mean when you say pro-LDS sites. I can only assume you mean ones either sponsored by the LDS church or run by members of the LDS church.

I don’t expect that you would agree with these sites. But that really is not my point. Whether you agree with them or not they are the ones that are stating what the church actually believes. You can call it heresy, crazy, completely void of all fact and truth – whatever; however, it is what the LDS church believes.

I am going to base my understanding on the Catholic church based on what the Catholic church actually states is their doctrine. Not some other anti-Catholic church site. I am quite certain that priests are not mesmorizing people to stay in a known false religion… or are they… 🙂

As a side note: you mentioned that members of the LDS church refer to these sites as anti-mormon – as I pointed out the Catholic church labels these same types of sites anti-Catholic, perhaps Catholics have a victim mentality too.

If you believe otherwise then I am sure you will let me know and we can close or conversation.

Thanks again.
 
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