Mormons ... can anyone clear these things up for me?

[ibkc]

Here is what I understand about Mormon beliefs about God and Jesus.

1. God is a man, with a physical body, but He is also spirit. Is this correct?
   a. if God has a physical body, is it the same one He had when he was living as a regular man?
2. Jesus was born twice: once as a “spirit child” parented by God and one of his celestial wives, and again on this world parented by God and the woman named Mary, who conceived him via the normal human way of sexual intercourse. Is this correct?

• Jesus also assisted God in creating this world. Is this correct?

1. God can switch back and forth between the spirit world and having a physical body, but Jesus cannot. Is this correct? I am just guessing this due to my understanding that Jesus was born twice, once in the spirit world and once in this world.
2. Is God in charge of just this planet, or the entire universe, or something in between?

Sorry if this is too much for one post.

 

[zerinus]

Here is what I understand about Mormon beliefs about God and Jesus.

1. God is a man, with a physical body, but He is also spirit. Is this correct?

Yes.

a. if God has a physical body, is it the same one He had when he was living as a regular man?

Not revealed. No information on that is found in LDS scripture.

1. Jesus was born twice: once as a “spirit child” parented by God and one of his celestial wives, and again on this world parented by God and the woman named Mary, who conceived him via the normal human way of sexual intercourse. Is this correct?

No.

• Jesus also assisted God in creating this world. Is this correct?

Yes.

1. God can switch back and forth between the spirit world and having a physical body, but Jesus cannot. Is this correct? I am just guessing this due to my understanding that Jesus was born twice, once in the spirit world and once in this world.

No.

1. Is God in charge of just this planet, or the entire universe, or something in between?

The entire universe.

zerinus

 

[ibkc]

Thank you, zerinus.

So - in the LDS view, Jesus, like God, can freely move back and forth between our world and the spirit world? And Jesus was not born of Mary in this world? Does Mary figure in the LDS view at all?

There is so much conflicting information out there, and while I will never become Mormon myself, I really do want to have the most correct information about Mormon beliefs as possible.

 

[Holly3278]

Thank you, zerinus.

So - in the LDS view, Jesus, like God, can freely move back and forth between our world and the spirit world? And Jesus was not born of Mary in this world? Does Mary figure in the LDS view at all?

There is so much conflicting information out there, and while I will never become Mormon myself, I really do want to have the most correct information about Mormon beliefs as possible.

I am a former Mormon and perhaps I can help clear this up. Mary does figure in to the LDS view. They view her as having given birth to Jesus as a virgin so they do believe in the virgin birth.

 

[majick275]

Yes.

according to Mormon doctrine God the father aka Elohim HAS a body AND a spirit. he is not a spirit per se but rather an exalted man.

Not revealed. No information on that is found in LDS scripture.

debatable. the theology. is clear though. it would be his resurrected and glorified body so qualified yes.

No.

well according to BY that’s true

Yes.

not exactly Jesus aka Jehovah in mormon doctrine created the earth with the with the assistance of michael AKA Adam. Elohim did not participate except to provide Jehovah with instructions.

No.

there is no need for “switching”. exalted beings can travel wherever they want. according to LDS all beings existed eternally and uncreated as “intelligences”, then all are eventually born as “spirit children” (makes for an interesting problem as infinite children cannot come from finite intelligences) then comes the first test. those who pass get to be born into physical bodies. second test (mortal life handicapped by prior performance). those who pass at the highest level become exalted, i.e. become Gods and then produce the next generation.

The entire universe.

zerinus

semantics again… there are infinite universes in mormon doctrine and new ones are created all the time. each God has their own.

 

[zerinus]

Thank you, zerinus.

So - in the LDS view, Jesus, like God, can freely move back and forth between our world and the spirit world?

I have no idea what you mean by “moving back and forth between our world and the spirit world”. God has a physical body; but that does not prevent Him from existing in, being conscious of, and influencing all the dimensions of the universe. The Son likewise. They both exist on the same principles; and whatever the Father can do the Son can do.

And Jesus was not born of Mary in this world? Does Mary figure in the LDS view at all?

Another poster already gave you the right answer to that.

There is so much conflicting information out there, and while I will never become Mormon myself, I really do want to have the most correct information about Mormon beliefs as possible.

Correct information about LDS belief is found in the Book of Mormon and in other LDS scriptures, and on the Church’s official website. If you are serious about that, those are the sources that you want to look into.

zerinus

 

[majick275]

I am a former Mormon and perhaps I can help clear this up. Mary does figure in to the LDS view. They view her as having given birth to Jesus as a virgin so they do believe in the virgin birth.

depends on how you define virgin birth. this has been the source of much LDS controversy for many years. here is a good place to see the most relevant LDS teachings:

mrm.org/topics/jesus-christ/redefining-virgin-birth-mormonisms-teaching-concerning-natural-conception-jesus

I would caveat this with the suggestion that you look at the sources of all quotes presented to ensure nothing is ripped out of context. I wold also suggest that you make your own conclusions of what this rather extensive collection of evidence means as the site has an agenda. having said that, I think you can see mormons have a very different idea of what the whole divine incarnation really is.

 

[ibkc]

Thanks all. Forgive me for a few more questions, because I am still a little confused about Jesus’ status in the LDS view (which, I suppose, is the ultimate point of all the questions). Is Jesus an exalted being, or is he not? If Jesus is the one who created this planet, are all the other planets in this universe created by Jesus, too, or has each planet been created by different children of God?

God has a physical body; but that does not prevent Him from existing in, being conscious of, and influencing all the dimensions of the universe. The Son likewise. They both exist on the same principles; and whatever the Father can do the Son can do.

Why then did Jesus have to have a mother in this world to bear Him here?

 

[zerinus]

Thanks all. Forgive me for a few more questions, because I am still a little confused about Jesus’ status in the LDS view (which, I suppose, is the ultimate point of all the questions). Is Jesus an exalted being, or is he not?

He is.

If Jesus is the one who created this planet, are all the other planets in this universe created by Jesus, too, or has each planet been created by different children of God?

All were created by Jesus Christ:

John 1:

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

D&C 45:

1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, to whom the kingdom has been given; hearken ye and give ear to him who laid the foundation of the earth, who made the heavens and all the hosts thereof, and by whom all things were made which live, and move, and have a being.

D&C 93:

10 The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him.

Why then did Jesus have to have a mother in this world to bear Him here?

Because it was the will of God that that is how it should be done.

zerinus

 

[AMDGtoo]

not exactly Jesus aka Jehovah in mormon doctrine created the earth with the with the assistance of michael AKA Adam. Elohim did not participate except to provide Jehovah with instructions.

I believe I have gotten lost with this explanation (even if the OP understands). I don’t know if it’s the names or not. (Maybe it is.) If you can in this thread, could you please explain this? Or would you rather I start another thread about this?

 

[Tweedle_Dee]

My guess is that 90% of Mormons can’t answer these questions in agreement. It’s not like they teach the majority of these things in Sunday school. The church discourages bringing most of these topics up and if you do you get labeled a black sheep.

 

[majick275]

I believe I have gotten lost with this explanation (even if the OP understands). I don’t know if it’s the names or not. (Maybe it is.) If you can in this thread, could you please explain this? Or would you rather I start another thread about this?

Mormons believe in an infinite number of Gods. the concept is called eternal progression and you can read about on their website. the relevant piece here is the being that we (catholics) would call God the Father is believed by mormons to be an exalted man who lived just like us and was true and faithful and obedient and thus became exalted. thy believe his name is Elohim. they teach that he is the literal father of all of our spirits. Jesus being the oldest and the only one who was “begotten” of him in the flesh. Jesus real name in mormon doctrine is jehovah. they also believe that Adam is the same person as Michael the archangel. they teach that elohim instructed jehovah to take michael and create the earth. so in catholic terms…God the father instructed Jesus and St. Michael to create the earth. when it was all ready God placed Michaels soul into a body of flesh and blood and called him Adam. does that help?

 

[wmscott]

He is.

All were created by Jesus Christ:

John 1:

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Colossians 1:

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;

D&C 45:

1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, to whom the kingdom has been given; hearken ye and give ear to him who laid the foundation of the earth, who made the heavens and all the hosts thereof, and by whom all things were made which live, and move, and have a being.

D&C 93:

10 The worlds were made by him; men were made by him; all things were made by him, and through him, and of him.

Because it was the will of God that that is how it should be done.

zerinus

ZERINUS, please explaine the 12 statements below concerning the Mormon faith. thanks in advance

1. “Familiar spirits” are good, and that their Book of Mormon has a “familiar spirit”.
2. Women receive salvation only through their Mormon husbands, and must remain pregnant for all eternity.
3. Mormons intend to be gods themselves some day, and are helping to earn their exaltation to godhood by talking to you.
4. Mormons intend to have many wives in heaven, carrying on multiple sex relations throughout eternity, until they have enough children to populate their own earth, so they can be “Heavenly Father” over their own planet!
5. Mormons believe that you were once a spirit-child of their heavenly father, and one of his numerous wives before you were born on earth.
6. Mormons believe that the Virgin Mary really wasn’t a virgin at all but had sex relations with their heavenly father to produce the Mormon version of Jesus Christ.
7. Mormons believe that Jesus had at least three wives and children while he was on this earth.
8. Mormons believe that the “heavenly father” they ask you to pray to with them, is really an exalted man that lives on a planet near the star base Kolob, and is not the Heavenly Father of the Bible at all.
9. Mormons believe that Jesus was really Lucifer’s brother in the spirit world, and it was only due to a “heavenly council” vote that Jesus became our redeemer instead of Satan!
10. Mormons encourage visitations from dead relatives from the “spirit world”.
11. Mormons believe that they consider the Bible to be untrustworthy and full of errors.
12. Mormons believe that the Archangel Michael came down to earth with several of his celestial wives, and became Adam in the garden of Eden.
13. Mormons believe that the angel Gabriel came down to earth and became Noah in the days of the flood.

 

[ibkc]

  			Originally Posted by **ibkc**

So, in the Mormon view, is Jesus a god, just not the main god of the universe? Or is Jesus something else? Also, is it possible to become an exalted being by means other than living an exemplary life as a Mormon in this, or other physical world? If not, how did Jesus attain His exalted status ?
And -

Are we (the people populating this world) spirit children of God? If so, what is the difference between us and Jesus? If not - how does all this work?

P.S. I have read the Book of Mormon, though it has been around 25 years.

 

[ibkc]

1. Mormons believe that the Virgin Mary really wasn’t a virgin at all but had sex relations with their heavenly father to produce the Mormon version of Jesus Christ.

I asked this in the first post in the thread, and it has been explained. They believe in the Virgin Birth.

 

[AMDGtoo]

In a way, yes, it did help–thank you. It also showed me why Tweedle_Dee can say with probable assurance that 90% of Mormons can’t answer the questions with any assurance–it get’s too confusing to the point of not wanting to “sort it out”. I take it that the Mormons don’t know that scholars consider that the word “Jehovah” was made up by combining two other words used for God. And St. Michael! I thought he figured in JWs. Live and learn.

 

[majick275]

I asked this in the first post in the thread, and it has been explained. They believe in the Virgin Birth.

but while the words are the same the meanings are not.

 

[majick275]

So, in the Mormon view, is Jesus a god, just not the main god of the universe? Or is Jesus something else? Also, is it possible to become an exalted being by means other than living an exemplary life as a Mormon in this, or other physical world? If not, how did Jesus attain His exalted status ?
And -

Are we (the people populating this world) spirit children of God? If so, what is the difference between us and Jesus? If not - how does all this work?

P.S. I have read the Book of Mormon, though it has been around 25 years.

mormons believe that jesus is a God who is subordinate to his father. whether or not he gets his own planet to be “father” over has not been addressed to my knowledge.

 

[majick275]

i realize you menat this for z and i hope he answers but there are a lot of confusing statements here and i wanted to provide answers based on my own experience.

ZERINUS, please explaine the 12 statements below concerning the Mormon faith. thanks in advance

1. “Familiar spirits” are good, and that their Book of Mormon has a “familiar spirit”.

not true according to mormon doctrine. the only spirit they teach you should listen to is the holy spirit. they do teach that the best way to prove the BoM true is to ask god and then the holy spirit will “witness” to you.

1. Women receive salvation only through their Mormon husbands, and must remain pregnant for all eternity.

very mixed up. in mormon doctrine there is a HUGE difference between salvation and exaltation. salvation is the gift of Jesus and applies to all except “sons of perdition”. Exaltation is only for the most faithful mormons. (including those who converted after death) worthy women whose husbands don’t qualify will be given to other worthy men. it is not addressed how often they will be pregnant, only that they will have children. it is also taught that pregnancy became difficult after the fall as Eve’s punishment and that in the celestial kingdom it will be wonderful.

1. Mormons intend to be gods themselves some day, and are helping to earn their exaltation to godhood by talking to you.

yes to the first part but talking to you has little to do with the process.

1. Mormons intend to have many wives in heaven, carrying on multiple sex relations throughout eternity, until they have enough children to populate their own earth, so they can be “Heavenly Father” over their own planet!

poor choice of words but basically correct.

1. Mormons believe that you were once a spirit-child of their heavenly father, and one of his numerous wives before you were born on earth.

correct

1. Mormons believe that the Virgin Mary really wasn’t a virgin at all but had sex relations with their heavenly father to produce the Mormon version of Jesus Christ.

most mormons don’t think about this. however it was taught for many years. they believe she was still a virgin however because jesus was sired by god and thus different rules apply

1. Mormons believe that Jesus had at least three wives and children while he was on this earth.

some mormons believe this. it has been taught that he was married and was a polygamist. not much in the way of specifics for many years though.

1. Mormons believe that the “heavenly father” they ask you to pray to with them, is really an exalted man that lives on a planet near the star base Kolob, and is not the Heavenly Father of the Bible at all.

sort of. his planet in near the star kolob. (not a base) they believe he IS the heavenly father of the bible although they believe much of what is said in the old testament came form jesus

1. Mormons believe that Jesus was really Lucifer’s brother in the spirit world, and it was only due to a “heavenly council” vote that Jesus became our redeemer instead of Satan!

sort of. jesus was the oldest and was in charge of the creation. the vote was to see whose plan WE accepted. the Father already knew he was implementing jesus plan. lucifer’s plan would not require a redeemer as it was a dictatorship where he would force everyone to follow his bidding

1. Mormons encourage visitations from dead relatives from the “spirit world”.

disagree. first i’ve ever heard of that.

1. Mormons believe that they consider the Bible to be untrustworthy and full of errors.

pretty much…except where it appears to agree with the them.

1. Mormons believe that the Archangel Michael came down to earth with several of his celestial wives, and became Adam in the garden of Eden.

not exactly. they believe the archangel michael was placed here as Adam and given Eve as his wife. Brigham young taught that Elohim was michaels god and that Adam/Michael as the physical father of us all is OUR God. this was called false doctrine in modern times but the wording is a little unclear. (some think the denunciation is only against the miscopying of the teaching not the teaching itself)Gordon hinkley reaffirmed that BY taught it.

1. Mormons believe that the angel Gabriel came down to earth and became Noah in the days of the flood.

yes. it is important to note that they believe all angels are people and not a separate category of beings.

 

[Carl_Nicholas]

i realize you menat this for z and i hope he answers but there are a lot of confusing statements here and i wanted to provide answers based on my own experience.

not true according to mormon doctrine. the only spirit they teach you should listen to is the holy spirit. they do teach that the best way to prove the BoM true is to ask god and then the holy spirit will “witness” to you.

very mixed up. in mormon doctrine there is a HUGE difference between salvation and exaltation. salvation is the gift of Jesus and applies to all except “sons of perdition”. Exaltation is only for the most faithful mormons. (including those who converted after death) worthy women whose husbands don’t qualify will be given to other worthy men. it is not addressed how often they will be pregnant, only that they will have children. it is also taught that pregnancy became difficult after the fall as Eve’s punishment and that in the celestial kingdom it will be wonderful.

yes to the first part but talking to you has little to do with the process.

poor choice of words but basically correct.

correct

most mormons don’t think about this. however it was taught for many years. they believe she was still a virgin however because jesus was sired by god and thus different rules apply

some mormons believe this. it has been taught that he was married and was a polygamist. not much in the way of specifics for many years though.

sort of. his planet in near the star kolob. (not a base) they believe he IS the heavenly father of the bible although they believe much of what is said in the old testament came form jesus

sort of. jesus was the oldest and was in charge of the creation. the vote was to see whose plan WE accepted. the Father already knew he was implementing jesus plan. lucifer’s plan would not require a redeemer as it was a dictatorship where he would force everyone to follow his bidding

disagree. first i’ve ever heard of that.

pretty much…except where it appears to agree with the them.

not exactly. they believe the archangel michael was placed here as Adam and given Eve as his wife. Brigham young taught that Elohim was michaels god and that Adam/Michael as the physical father of us all is OUR God. this was called false doctrine in modern times but the wording is a little unclear. (some think the denunciation is only against the miscopying of the teaching not the teaching itself)Gordon hinkley reaffirmed that BY taught it.

yes. it is important to note that they believe all angels are people and not a separate category of beings.

Hi majick275,
Are the answers you gave to this all directly from the BoM ( " first copy" by JS ) or have these teachings evolved over time with the LDS???
Thank you in advance for your response.
God bless,
Carl
P.S. thanks for your service