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teancum79
Guest
WMscott I’ll let Z deal with the details as you addressed the questions to him, but some of your info is a clear result of people not paying attention to what is being taught and making up the rest.
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majick275
Guest
very few elements of mormon doctrine or practice are in the BoM. most of what they teach and do on a regular basis comes from their other scriptures like the doctrine and covenants. they also believe in an open canon with a living prophet so he just tells them what they need to believe and do as he sees fit. most of these teachings are to be found in that type of instruction where their prophet addresses their church
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majick275
Guest
i think it was cut an pasted or at least paraphrased from an evangelical site. STILL… worth discussing as long as we discard the errors.
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teancum79
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They are worth discussing, but a “stare base” you can’t get there on accident.
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majick275
Guest
yeah i had to speak to that one.
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zerinus
Guest
These are a bunch of falsehoods and lies about Mormonism that you have invented yourself, and does not deserve a reply.
zerinus
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zerinus
Guest
Jesus is the Son of God, like it says in the Bible; and is a divine being.
Exaltation is achieved as described in the Doctrine and Covenants in the following verses—and in no other way:
D&C 76:
50 And again we bear record—for we saw and heard, and this is the testimony of the gospel of Christ concerning them who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just—
51 They are they who received the testimony of Jesus, and believed on his name and were baptized after the manner of his burial, being buried in the water in his name, and this according to the commandment which he has given—
52 That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power;
53 And who overcome by faith, and are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, which the Father sheds forth upon all those who are just and true.
54 They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.
55 They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—
56 They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;
57 And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.
58 Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—
59 Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.
60 And they shall overcome all things.
61 Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet.
62 These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.
63 These are they whom he shall bring with him, when he shall come in the clouds of heaven to reign on the earth over his people.
64 These are they who shall have part in the first resurrection.
65 These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.
66 These are they who are come unto Mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly place, the holiest of all.
67 These are they who have come to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of Enoch, and of the Firstborn.
68 These are they whose names are written in heaven, where God and Christ are the judge of all.
69 These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood.
70 These are they whose bodies are celestial, whose glory is that of the sun, even the glory of God, the highest of all, whose glory the sun of the firmament is written of as being typical.
Jesus was endowed with divinity as a spirit before He was born on earth; but when He was born on earth as the babe in Bethlehem to His mother Mary, He became like us, and had to “work out His salvation” and exaltation as we have to do. The difference is that He being the Son of God, and possessing a divine spirit, was able to make that progress a lot faster than we are able to do. But at the same time, He also faced greater challenges, and had more severe temptations to overcome.
Yes.
The difference is that He is the “first born of every creature” (Colossians 1:15), and the “beginning of the creation of God” (Revelation 3:14); and He was elected by God from the beginning to be the Only Begotten Son of God, the Savior and Redeemer of the world; and was endowed with divinity long before the creation of this world.
Well, if you are serious about wanting to understand Mormonism, you need to do better than that.
zerinus
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hosemonkey
Guest
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zerinus
Guest
P.S. I missed out on this question: “If not, how did Jesus attain His exalted status?”
Jesus was endowed with divinity as a spirit before He was born on earth; but when He was born on earth as the babe in Bethlehem to His mother Mary, He became like us, and had to “work out His salvation” and exaltation as we have to do. The difference is that He being the Son of God, and possessing a divine spirit, was able to make that progress a lot faster than we are able to do. But at the same time, He also faced greater challenges, and had more severe temptations to overcome.
zerinus
Jesus was endowed with divinity as a spirit before He was born on earth; but when He was born on earth as the babe in Bethlehem to His mother Mary, He became like us, and had to “work out His salvation” and exaltation as we have to do. The difference is that He being the Son of God, and possessing a divine spirit, was able to make that progress a lot faster than we are able to do. But at the same time, He also faced greater challenges, and had more severe temptations to overcome.
zerinus
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ibkc
Guest
Zerinus,
I have a long-term interest in apologetics, and I may turn to serious and intensive study of the Mormon faith at some point in the future. For now, I just wanted a brief overview of some things I found confusing, without the thread turning into a big argument. I appreciate you and majick and others taking the time to explain. It has helped a lot.
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zerinus
Guest
You are very welcome. By the way, I just edited that post, and added the bit I had missed, and deleted my last post. It answers your questions more completely this time.
zerinus
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Carl_Nicholas
Guest
Hi Zerinus,
PLEASE forgive MY ignorance,
The numbers 50 through 70 in your response ( is that from the BoM as prophitized by JS???
Thanks,
I SINCERLY appreciate you taking the time to respond.
God bless,
Carl
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Chanticleer
Guest
Does anyone know the length of gestation for a spirit child? I’m sure the females reading this would love to know. Just curious.
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RebeccaJ
Guest
1000 of our years = 1 day for God, so no matter how many days it is, it’s a long timeDoes anyone know the length of gestation for a spirit child? I’m sure the females reading this would love to know. Just curious.
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AMDGtoo
Guest
Why? Majick275 and even Teancum79 said that the questions were worth discussion and Majick275 even made a correction of something that was was glaringly untrue (while he mentioned that a few statements were correct. Why not adress them? Surely you don’t want false information to go on being spread.
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teancum79
Guest
perhaps he is tired of addressing questions from people who do not appear to have any interest in the answer, but simply like to waste his time?
Some of the points are worth discussing, but from the phrasing of the “questions” it does not look like a discussion it looks like an attack.
Some of the points are worth discussing, but from the phrasing of the “questions” it does not look like a discussion it looks like an attack.
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Chanticleer
Guest
Majick275 (#19) stated that worthy women whose husbands don’t qualify for exaltation will be GIVEN to other worthy men. (in the Celestial Kingdom )
Does a woman in this situation have any say in who this man will be?
Is it a decision made by a male council when a tally is taken on the number of women who qualify?
Is the number of Celestial wives one may have based on merit earned in this life?
Are the worthy women called from their graves on the “morning of the first resurrection” by their new husbands? Surprise!!!
Do mormon women really think this through? I would think todays LDS women would have a really tough time thinking about the possibility of waking up in eternity to find that they may possibly have several sister wives in the afterlife. FLDS wives would expect it but not ,(dare I use the word) orthodox mormons.
The Terrestrial Kingdom sounds like the best deal to me ladies and I know exactly how to get there. Stay Catholic !
Does a woman in this situation have any say in who this man will be?
Is it a decision made by a male council when a tally is taken on the number of women who qualify?
Is the number of Celestial wives one may have based on merit earned in this life?
Are the worthy women called from their graves on the “morning of the first resurrection” by their new husbands? Surprise!!!
Do mormon women really think this through? I would think todays LDS women would have a really tough time thinking about the possibility of waking up in eternity to find that they may possibly have several sister wives in the afterlife. FLDS wives would expect it but not ,(dare I use the word) orthodox mormons.
The Terrestrial Kingdom sounds like the best deal to me ladies and I know exactly how to get there. Stay Catholic !
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teancum79
Guest
Knowing above all the possible muddy details that God is a kind and just being. No women is going to get ripped off in the resurrection. We are not going to be unaware of what is going on while we are dead. God is perfect and can sort through the many varied issues that may come up.
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Chanticleer
Guest
Teancum, I believe the questions I posed would be valid questions from any potential female converts especially those who were raised with abusive Fathers or married to abusive husbands.
Could you please explain how one is aware while being dead?
Could you please explain how one is aware while being dead?
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zaffiroborant
Guest
And what about the unworthy husband and the kids and their “forever family” where is that? They just lose out on a “forever dad” in spite of doing everything right. Or do they just not care and take on mom’s new “husband” as their dad because their real dad is a loser and didn’t make it? The whole idea that LDS gives you an eternal family is ludicrous in light of sending everyone to different levels of heaven. How is a family together if some are in the telestial some the terrestrial and some the celestial kingdom? Do the faithful kids go slumming to visit their “forever dad” down in the telestial?Majick275 (#19) stated that worthy women whose husbands don’t qualify for exaltation will be GIVEN to other worthy men. (in the Celestial Kingdom )
Does a woman in this situation have any say in who this man will be?
Is it a decision made by a male council when a tally is taken on the number of women who qualify?
Is the number of Celestial wives one may have based on merit earned in this life?
Are the worthy women called from their graves on the “morning of the first resurrection” by their new husbands? Surprise!!!
Do mormon women really think this through? I would think todays LDS women would have a really tough time thinking about the possibility of waking up in eternity to find that they may possibly have several sister wives in the afterlife. FLDS wives would expect it but not ,(dare I use the word) orthodox mormons.
The Terrestrial Kingdom sounds like the best deal to me ladies and I know exactly how to get there. Stay Catholic !
About this
How does this happen, are the “intelligences” caught like fish and put into spirit bodies, how does the human matryoshka start?
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