Mormons confessing to their bishops?

[angelusm]

My friend was not a catholic before he converted, but claims that this is equal to the sacrament of confession done in the catholic church. Although i’m not sure if he claims that the Bishop has the power to forgive him as a priest does, which leads me to question why he does this at all.

It’s not equal at all. Even if mormons or protestants confess their sins it’s not a sacrament of reconsiliation. They have no priesthood and they cannot receive an absolution. Mormon “bishop” cannot do that. It’s just a conversation between two people, nothing else.
They do it because Jesus told us to confess sins to each other. Unfortunately their souls are not purified after such a “confession”.

 

[MHalsey]

This is a far more appropriate response than the one to Mom of 5. “In my experience” is probably exactly what she was referring to when sharing her observations while her husband was a Mormon, which is why your post to her was so offensive.
Just like in the Catholic Church, you can cite Mormon doctrine that is clear, but that doesn’t mean each individual follows it without error, and perhaps the bishop she knew didn’t do as he was supposed to.

This is exactly what mom of 5 was doing. I think Zerinus owes her an apology or face the mods.

 

[why_me]

If mom of 5 needs an apology than every mormon who posts on this forum needs an apology for the rude use of words directed against the lds church and its leaders.

Mom made a comment and was proven wrong by me and Zerinus. She refused to back down. And that was the problem.

I msut say that it can be a little disconcerting to have so much negative vibrations about mormonism on this forum. This forum is right up there with some of the forums that dedicate themselves to antimormons. However, it is only a handful of posters that have a bedbug about mormonism. Most catholics that I know in person are rather respectful. I tend to handle the misconceptions about mormons rather well with some of my catholic friends.

For example, I had one catholic friend tell me all mormons are rich. I tried to persuade her otherwise but no go. She is still adament that all mormons are rich. What to do? At least she is polite.

 

[why_me]

Zerinus,

How many bishop’s disciplinary councils have you been a part of ? Have you been a bishop, a councillor to a bishop or a ward clerk or executive secretary ? Have you been in a Stake High Council disciplinary meeting ? Have you been a high councilor or a Stake President or a Coucillor to a Stak President ?

Then you probably are unaware of these things. But trust me they happen and more often than you would like.

God bless,

Hal.

You see Hal, for some strange reason when someone like mom of 5 writes about mormonism even if it was her personal experience they seem to write as if it is a world wide practice in the lds church. That is the problem. I cannot tell what were Mom’s intentions but what happens at the bishop’s level may have been the mistake of that bishop.

In this case, I have a hard time believing that the bishop was calling her husband to repentence every year. The membership would be in an uproar if it were happening to them. There is no way that a bishop could get away with it, as you probably know.

 

[MHalsey]

If mom of 5 needs an apology than every mormon who posts on this forum needs an apology for the rude use of words directed against the lds church and its leaders.

Mom made a comment and was proven wrong by me and Zerinus. She refused to back down. And that was the problem.

I msut say that it can be a little disconcerting to have so much negative vibrations about mormonism on this forum. This forum is right up there with some of the forums that dedicate themselves to antimormons. However, it is only a handful of posters that have a bedbug about mormonism. Most catholics that I know in person are rather respectful. I tend to handle the misconceptions about mormons rather well with some of my catholic friends.

For example, I had one catholic friend tell me all mormons are rich. I tried to persuade her otherwise but no go. She is still adament that all mormons are rich. What to do? At least she is polite.

Not to derail the thread too much, but …

So you’re saying you see this type of comment all over the forum:

Because she is a continuing and never ending “bleep” about Mormonism (of which she knows nothing). It is about time somebody set her straight.

I think you’re quite mistaken.

What do you mean by “she refused to back down”? What is that supposed to mean? It was her only post in this thread. And you did not prove her wrong. The only way to do that would be to prove she is lying about a personal experience.

 

[RebeccaJ]

If mom of 5 needs an apology than every mormon who posts on this forum needs an apology for the rude use of words directed against the lds church and its leaders.

Mom made a comment and was proven wrong by me and Zerinus. She refused to back down. And that was the problem.

I msut say that it can be a little disconcerting to have so much negative vibrations about mormonism on this forum. This forum is right up there with some of the forums that dedicate themselves to antimormons. However, it is only a handful of posters that have a bedbug about mormonism. Most catholics that I know in person are rather respectful. I tend to handle the misconceptions about mormons rather well with some of my catholic friends.

For example, I had one catholic friend tell me all mormons are rich. I tried to persuade her otherwise but no go. She is still adament that all mormons are rich. What to do? At least she is polite.

whineme, I visit no mormon forums looking to throw bombs at practicing lds. But if you believe that I am going to sit idly by and watch mormons come here, repeatedly, and tell lies, well, you are wrong.

 

[Prince_Hal]

You see Hal, for some strange reason when someone like mom of 5 writes about mormonism even if it was her personal experience they seem to write as if it is a world wide practice in the lds church. That is the problem. I cannot tell what were Mom’s intentions but what happens at the bishop’s level may have been the mistake of that bishop.

In this case, I have a hard time believing that the bishop was calling her husband to repentence every year. The membership would be in an uproar if it were happening to them. There is no way that a bishop could get away with it, as you probably know.

I probably agree with you, though do not know Mom of 5’s background. Certainly it is not a general thing for an LDS bishop to call a person in to his office annually “to confess”. Mom’s example probably was specific to her husband. Certainly it has been suggested to me by my stake president when I was bishop that “calling someone to repentance” could be a means of kick starting someone to put their life in order. In Mom’s example this could mean being obedient to specific LDS rules and commandments. Personnally I do not see anything wrong with this. I think Father Corapi does this all the time - in a general manner, not to specific individuals.

There was a time in my stake that I was asked to link a persons performance of home teaching to whether they received a temple recommend. All specific to our stake and certainly not church wide.

So Mom’s (name removed by moderator)ut I believe was very valuable, it was good insight to her situation and position. But i agree, this is not a general practice in the LDS church - i.e. to call someone to repentence on an annual basis.

Now calling someone in for a temple recommend interview annually (every two years now I believe) might be something that is done by a diligent bishop seeking to keep the individual focused on keeping his life in order and living the LDS rules (most of which would be great for anyone to live).

Hope this also help,

Hal.

 

[why_me]

What do you mean by “she refused to back down”? What is that supposed to mean? It was her only post in this thread. And you did not prove her wrong. The only way to do that would be to prove she is lying about a personal experience.

She had two posts in this thread: # 3 and # 6. And in post # 6 she still wrote about bishop calling her husband to his office to confess.

A detail that I still doubt. Someone who is inactive for 15 years will not be called in every year to confess. Heck, I have been inactive for 32 years, and no one calls me into their office. Now catholic priests and nuns have encouraged me to confess to a catholic priest since I was born catholic and attend Mass. But no mormon ever called me in to confess.

 

[Catholig]

My dear lady, you know nothing about Mormonism, and what you are saying is not true. I suggest that in the future you confine your comments to something that (hopefully) you know something about (if that is not too much to ask).

The bishop invites ward members to his office once a year for tithing settlement, not to confess their sins.

It is a requirement that those Church members that have committed serious sins to go to their bishop and confess their sins; but that is something that is left up to the individual to decide. The bishop does not call people to his office to confess their sins (unless he already knows that they have committed some sins).

The purpose of tithing settlement is not to ask people “why they haven’t paid their tithing”. The purpose of the tithing settlement is firstly to ensure that the tithing records of the Church is correct; and secondly, for the individual to have the opportunity to declare whether he is a full tithe payer, a part tithe payer, nor a non-tithe payer.

All Church members attend tithing settlement, not just those who “don’t pay”. And it is not compulsory either. It is by invitation. You don’t have to attend if you don’t want to, and some don’t.

I look forward to tithing settlement with my bishop once a year, because there I have the opportunity to declare to my bishop (and to the Lord) that I am a full tithe payer; and he always pronounces a blessing on me for having done so.

May I suggest that in the future you confine your comments to Catholicism (about which you are probably equally uninformed), and leave the explanation of Mormonism to Mormons?

zerinus

Zerinus,

Please don’t be so rude - why should you insult someone like that? I mean is there any reason to say “May I suggest that in the future you confine your comments to Catholicism (about which you are probably equally uninformed)…” I can’t see one. If she is wrong about Mormonism fine - but it is quite possible that what she says is true. That those practicing Mormons taught her this - in which case you only have to show that they are not in accordance with the teachings of your Church (something by the way you didn’t do since you didn’t provided 1 document to back up anything that you said). And if you don’t want to accuse them of anything you could give them the benefit of the doubt, and tell her that she may have misunderstood. Honestly there is no reason to be rude - if I were you I’d apologize.

Catholig

 

[why_me]

whineme, I visit no mormon forums looking to throw bombs at practicing lds. But if you believe that I am going to sit idly by and watch mormons come here, repeatedly, and tell lies, well, you are wrong.

Usually, it is the catholics that begin the conversation with a negative about mormonism. And then they continue with the negatives. I see no discussion, only catholic accusations.

What are the mormons to do? Sit idly by and let it happen? Now if people would learn to discuss and not accuse, then I could perhaps see some progress. But as it stands, the accusations keep flying off the roof. And the negatives are dropped like bombs from 10,000 feet about the mormon faith

And it is done a from a position of ‘truth’.

 

[Jerusha]

And the negatives are dropped like bombs from 10,000 feet about the mormon faith

And it is done a from a position of ‘truth’.

:coffeeread: You said it!! :juggle:

 

[MHalsey]

She had two posts in this thread: # 3 and # 6. And in post # 6 she still wrote about bishop calling her husband to his office to confess.

A detail that I still doubt. Someone who is inactive for 15 years will not be called in every year to confess. Heck, I have been inactive for 32 years, and no one calls me into their office. Now catholic priests and nuns have encouraged me to confess to a catholic priest since I was born catholic and attend Mass. But no mormon ever called me in to confess.

OK, so it’s a detail you doubt. It still doesn’t make what she said untrue.

But this isn’t about what you think of her or her testimony. It has to do with Zerinus’s comments. I ask you, were they wrong and insulting? And please don’t equivocate and say Catholics here do the same thing. I have yet to see any Catholic respond in the following way to another poster:

Because she is a continuing and never ending “bleep” about Mormonism (of which she knows nothing). It is about time somebody set her straight.

or

My dear lady, you know nothing about Mormonism, and what you are saying is not true. I suggest that in the future you confine your comments to something that (hopefully) you know something about (if that is not too much to ask).

 

[why_me]

OK, so it’s a detail you doubt. It still doesn’t make what she said untrue.

But this isn’t about what you think of her or her testimony. It has to do with Zerinus’s comments. I ask you, were they wrong and insulting? And please don’t equivocate and say Catholics here do the same thing. I have yet to see any Catholic respond in the following way to another poster:

Well, I shouldn’t speak for Zerinus but I will give my humble opinion. I kind of feel sorry for Zerinus. You see, he is on this forum constantly defending the lds church. He is also an active member. The people who do respond to his posts can be very rude in what they say about mormonism. And quite truthfully, it is not what they say but how they say it that becomes the problem.

Hence, my excuse for Zerinus is that he is perhaps just a little burned out at the moment. And I forgive him.

That being said, if any mormon on www.mormonapologetics.org treated catholics on that forum as mormons are treated on this forum, they would get the ban or a long suspension from that forum.

And perhaps Zerinus should head over to mormonapologetics for a breather and return to this forum refreshed and relaxed. :getholy: That is just my two cents.

However, Zerinus should be admired. He as well over 2,000 posts on this forum and is still sane. Now be honest, the mormon church does take a beating here, right??

 

[Jerusha]

That being said, if any mormon on www.mormonapologetics.org treated catholics on that forum as mormons are treated on this forum, they would get the ban or a long suspension from that forum.

Not in my experience. As I said once before, you were one of the few civil Mormons on that board, when I was over there. None were banned because of their attacks on me, to my knowlege. I left of my own free will, because of baiting and fears that Warran Jeffs clones would be out and about looking for my physical self.

And perhaps Zerinus should head over to mormonapologetics for a breather and return to this forum refreshed and relaxed. :getholy: That is just my two cents.

He would definitely be more comfortable on his own turf.

However, Zerinus should be admired. He as well over 2,000 posts on this forum and is still sane.

I could debate that with you.

Now be honest, the mormon church does take a beating here, right??

Awww!!! That is easy. All it takes is a bit of information and skills with logic.

 

[why_me]

I just don’t remember any vicious attacks against the catholic church on that forum without a reprimand. I think I remember who you were and I don’t remember you being treated unfairly. Now I do know one catholic poster that was banned. Her name was Ave Maria. She was aggresive and she can be found on a different catholic forum from this one.

All churches can be criticized and made to look foolish. It is just one of the trademarks of being human: to mock, criticize and name call.

 

[majick275]

I just don’t remember any vicious attacks against the catholic church on that forum without a reprimand. I think I remember who you were and I don’t remember you being treated unfairly. Now I do know one catholic poster that was banned. Her name was Ave Maria. She was aggresive and she can be found on a different catholic forum from this one.

All churches can be criticized and made to look foolish. It is just one of the trademarks of being human: to mock, criticize and name call.

so what was joseph smith doing when he said all other churches were wrong, their creeds an abomination and all their professors corrupt? remember that this is canonized in LDs scripture now.

 

[Jerusha]

I just don’t remember any vicious attacks against the catholic church on that forum without a reprimand. I think I remember who you were and I don’t remember you being treated unfairly. The attacks were not on me as a Catholic. The attacks were on me as a person who interprets the BOMb differently than how LDS people interpret it. Evidently my beliefs were threatening to them???

You missed some of the attacks, which seem to have been personal, coming from a tracing of my IP.

 

[Mom_of_5]

I had no idea that I was going to get beat up so badly for speaking the truth. I cannot “back down” because it is all true. I cannot say that what happened to hubby is something that always happens, I do not know that. Yes, he was called to confess once a year. Several times during this time he was asked to go before a counsel. He was very upset and said that he had no reason to go before these men and get “battered” from all sides for not being an active LDS, for not tithing, etc. He also refused to give testimony, “I believe in Joseph Smith…”. All LDS know that testimony very well.

Hubby moved from one town to another. LDS church “found” him. Although he did not attend meetings, hubby was still trying to decide what to do with his spiritual life, and therefore allowed the HT visits. I have said that the home teachers came once a month. I found them to be nice men with only one exception. This man was no longer one of the HT when I explained to the remaining HT what had happened. He was replaced.I had respect for the HT for the fact that they really tried to convert me. They believed in their faith. However, one evening, one of the HT told me that he respected me for not giving into them and accepting their religion. He stated that he felt I had a strong belief in Catholicism and that would not change. All of this was reported back to the bishop who was afraid that I would influence hubby to convert to Catholicism, which he did. Never did I ask my husband to leave LDS and be baptized Catholic. He came to this on his own.

My best friend is LDS. Hubby has relatives who are LDS. For anyone to say that Catholics do not tolerate LDS faith is quite silly. LDS was built on the “fact” that LDS believe the Catholic and protestant churches to be the dead tree with dead branches. That speaks for itself. Read McConkie sp?

I have not stated, nor will I state that these things ALWAYS happen, but I will not back down when I know that what I said DID happen.

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

 

[RebeccaJ]

Usually, it is the catholics that begin the conversation with a negative about mormonism. And then they continue with the negatives. I see no discussion, only catholic accusations.

What are the mormons to do? Sit idly by and let it happen? Now if people would learn to discuss and not accuse, then I could perhaps see some progress. But as it stands, the accusations keep flying off the roof. And the negatives are dropped like bombs from 10,000 feet about the mormon faith

And it is done a from a position of ‘truth’.

Usually it is a Catholic who has little exposure to mormonism asking a question about something they heard, or read, or a mormon they know told them. Mormons usually respond with half-truths. And sometimes just blatantly false information, when compared against what lds.org publishes and mormon leaders do and have taught.

It is just plain unsupportable, this idea that mormonism should be tolerated as benign. The goal since its inception has been to replace every single persons religious belief with that of mormonism. Catholicism has existed since Christ founded His Church. Mormonism works at undermining everything the Catholic Church has taught as truth for 2000 years. And in all honesty, I see your attempts at mormonizing Catholicism as just another attempt to imbue long held truths with lies.

So, if you view a stance of clarifying what mormonism is, what it teaches, what its goals are, as dropping bombs from 10,000 feet…I can only say that you are one confused human.

 

[Mom_of_5]

Usually it is a Catholic who has little exposure to mormonism asking a question about something they heard, or read, or a mormon they know told them. Mormons usually respond with half-truths. And sometimes just blatantly false information, when compared against what lds.org publishes and mormon leaders do and have taught.

It is just plain unsupportable, this idea that mormonism should be tolerated as benign. The goal since its inception has been to replace every single persons religious belief with that of mormonism. Catholicism has existed since Christ founded His Church. Mormonism works at undermining everything the Catholic Church has taught as truth for 2000 years. And in all honesty, I see your attempts at mormonizing Catholicism as just another attempt to imbue long held truths with lies.

So, if you view a stance of clarifying what mormonism is, what it teaches, what its goals are, as dropping bombs from 10,000 feet…I can only say that you are one confused human.

Well done!! Thank you!!

Mom of 5