Mormons married in heaven

[TonyR]

Yes.

There are several answers to that question. Firstly, they can marry by a civil marriage only, in which case their marriage lasts only during their lifetime. It will not be in force after the resurrection. Secondly, they can also remarry in the temple for eternity; but the situation for that depends on their gender. A man whose wife dies can remarry his second wife in the temple for eternity, and in the resurrection he will be sealed to both wives. A woman can only be sealed in the temple to one husband. If her husband dies she can remarry by a civil marriage, but her second marriage cannot be sealed in the temple for eternity. However, if she wishes to be sealed to her second husband for eternity, she can apply to the First Presidency to cancel the original sealing so that she can be married to her second husband for eternity. The First Presidency have the authority (at their discursion) to cancel the original sealing to allow that to happen. I suppose it is like the Pope annulling a marriage. However, I am not too well informed on this, and my understanding is that it does not happen very often, and permission is not readily granted. Other LDS who may have more information can fill me up on this one.

zerinus

Hello Zerinus… The only problem I have is that LDS/Mormon Church is a bit off the mark. What part of Deuteronomy and Revelation didn’t you all understand about Adding and Taking from these books. The Bible is all we need plus Sacred Tradition passed down through Apostolic Authority starting with St. Peter throught the Pope, Bishops Priests and Deacons. You all look nice on the surface but it doesn’t take much to see your Doctrine is very much flawed.

Another question I have is What part of the Nicenc Creed don’t you understand? What about Apostolic Succession?

I had some Mormon Neighbors back in the 90’s and yes they were very nice people but their Theology is a but off the Mark. You may want to do some reading on the Church Fathers. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)uts about the Mormon Teaching… Thanks but No thanks. I will be praying for you Lord Have Mercy Christ Have Mercy.

 

[christianley]

Hello Zerinus… The only problem I have is that LDS/Mormon Church is a bit off the mark. What part of Deuteronomy and Revelation didn’t you all understand about Adding and Taking from these books. The Bible is all we need plus Sacred Tradition passed down through Apostolic Authority starting with St. Peter throught the Pope, Bishops Priests and Deacons. You all look nice on the surface but it doesn’t take much to see your Doctrine is very much flawed.

Another question I have is What part of the Nicenc Creed don’t you understand? What about Apostolic Succession?

I had some Mormon Neighbors back in the 90’s and yes they were very nice people but their Theology is a but off the Mark. You may want to do some reading on the Church Fathers. Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)uts about the Mormon Teaching… Thanks but No thanks. I will be praying for you Lord Have Mercy Christ Have Mercy.

Those are terrible proof texts to use against Mormonism. The Bible wasn’t even compiled when Deuteronomy and Revelations were written. There are certainly more books of the Bible after Deuteronomy and it is even possible some of the epistles were written after the Book of Revelation was written. This particular argument against Mormonism simply doesn’t hold water. John was telling people they shouldn’t add or take away from the Book of Revelation, not from the Bible. Of course the case can be made that changes Joseph Smith made in his Inspired Translation of the Bible which included changes to the Book of Revelation aren’t valid, but the Inspired Version is not considered the official canon of the LDS Church.

 

[TonyR]

Thanks zerinus,

Why can a man have 2 wives in Heaven, but a woman only 1, and if she wants 2 she has to get special permisson?

Obviously what is Fair Men is not necessarily fair for Women.

How very sad. Lord Have Mercy Christ Have Mercy.

Thanks Be to God only 65 Days and counting to my Confirmation at Easter Vigil and Home in Rome :dancing: :clapping:

 

[TonyR]

Those are terrible proof texts to use against Mormonism. The Bible wasn’t even compiled when Deuteronomy and Revelations were written. There are certainly more books of the Bible after Deuteronomy and it is even possible some of the epistles were written after the Book of Revelation was written. This particular argument against Mormonism simply doesn’t hold water. John was telling people they shouldn’t add or take away from the Book of Revelation, not from the Bible. Of course the case can be made that changes Joseph Smith made in his Inspired Translation of the Bible which included changes to the Book of Revelation aren’t valid, but the Inspired Version is not considered the official canon of the LDS Church.

Thanks for the Clarification but I say they are definately have a Flawed Theology…Lord Have Mercy and They aren’t even 200 years old… I think I would rather believe in something that is 2000 Years vice not even 200 years old. Just my thoughts… TonyR

 

[majick275]

Thanks zerinus,

Why can a man have 2 wives in Heaven, but a woman only 1, and if she wants 2 she has to get special permisson?

let’s be clear. mormon men are not restricted to 2 wives. they can have an unlimited number of wives in heaven if they reach the level of exaltation necessary to be a God. (otherwise they get no wives) mormon men believe that as Gods they become kings and priests to elohim thus progressing him to a “god of gods”. Mormon women become queens and priestesses to their husbands. (provided they are worthy)

 

[zerinus]

What is the precise meaning of this?

I’m assuming from the context of this “modern scripture” that being “out of the world” means the afterlife, post-natural death.

Yes, it means that their (civil) marriage will not be in force after they die, or in the resurrection.

Is this consignment to angelic servitude a result of having not obtained a proper Mormon (Temple or otherwise) marriage? What I mean to ask is, do Mormons believe that failure ALONE to obtain a Mormon marriage results in people, after death, becoming angels who “minister” unto those who did?

“Failure alone” is not the cause of bringing on someone this condemnation. There are many who fail to marry for reasons beyond their control. God is aware of their situation, and will judge them according to what was in their hearts. If they were fully willing to obey the requirements, but were prevented form doing so for reasons outside their control, opportunities will be given them to fulfil that requirement in the resurrection. The main thing is, did they accept the law with all their hearts when it was presented to them, and desire to obey it, or did they reject it as a matter of principle, as many do today.

zerinus

 

[Allweather]

Hello Zerinus… The only problem I have is that LDS/Mormon Church is a bit off the mark.

Howdy, Tony, and welcome to the Church. You’re on the right track, and have correctly identified the fundamental errors of Mormonism, though we both have lots to learn in how to argue religion with these poor souls who are lost in it. I’m also a newcomer to learning about Mormonism. Rather than repeat myself to everyone, I invite you to browse the recent threads here that relate to Mormonism. You will find them enlightening.

Keep up the good work. We need good, muscular defenders of the faith.

 

[zerinus]

Thanks zerinus,

Why can a man have 2 wives in Heaven, but a woman only 1, . . .

Because that is how it is. That is how God has ordained it to be. I guess men are just luckier than women!

. . . and if she wants 2 she has to get special permisson?

I never said that she can have two husbands. I said she can have her first sealing cancelled so she can be sealed to her second husband for eternity. She will still be married to one husband not two.

zerinus

 

[Allweather]

Yes, it means that their (civil) marriage will not be in force after they die, or in the resurrection.

Thanks, but what I’m actually asking about is that clause not being bound by any law out of the world. “therefore they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.” I hope I paraphrased that accurately, as I am not looking at the quote you provided. From the Mormon point of view, what is the meaning of “bound” as it is given here. I get the impression that God’s law is not binding on souls who are “out of the world.” Is that correct?

“Failure alone” is not the cause of bringing on someone this condemnation. There are many who fail to marry for reasons beyond their control. God is aware of their situation, and will judge them according to what was in their hearts. If they were fully willing to obey the requirements, but were prevented form doing so for reasons outside their control, opportunities will be given them to fulfil that requirement in the resurrection. The main thing is, did they accept the law with all their hearts when it was presented to them, and desire to obey it, or did they reject it as a matter of principle, as many do today.

zerinus

OK, I think I got that, and that seems reasonable, and actually very similar to Catholic teaching with regard to sin. What I am getting at, though, is the nature of this “sin” Mormons are talking about. Are we to gather that it is a sin not to be married? Or, rather, a sin to CHOOSE not to marry for whatever reason, let’s say, a simple desire not to be married?

 

[Allweather]

Because that is how it is. That is how God has ordained it to be. I guess men are just luckier than women!

Ahh, the nub of it. I seriously doubt that this has anything to do with luck, Zerinus, and I also seriously doubt that you think so, either. This has to do with the carnal nature of the male human being, his natural desire to have sex with multiple partners, as well as to impose his dominion upon the female such that she is not permitted the same priveleges. And therein lies the truth of the polygamous practices of the Mormon patriarchs, founder Joseph Smith and his successors, and all the lions of Utah who were allowed this privelege of holy wife swapping. These were exceeding carnal men who, having separated themselves from Christianity, ran amok amongst the ladies of the LDS, most of whom were horrified at this practice, but were forced to acquiesce under threat of “destruction.”

Of course, I speak only for myself. Oh, and also orthodox Christianity, both Protestant and Catholic, which teach clearly, and have ALWAYS taught clearly, that polygamy is a sin, that adultery has a clear definition according to the words of Jesus recorded in the Bible, and that those who practice these things will not be found among the sheep but, rather, among the goats.

I never said that she can have two husbands. I said she can have her first sealing cancelled so she can be sealed to her second husband for eternity. She will still be married to one husband not two.

zerinus

You see, in Christianity, men and women are equal. In the afterlife, there is no distinguishment made between the souls of women and men. It is the Christian religion that gives true equality to women. It is carnal man who plays the animal, imposing his sexual will upon women. This is a very distinguishing feature of Mormonism. Mormon men dominate women “in the world” and they continue to dominate them “out of the world” according to their fantasy religion. Thank God, it is only a fantasy! God help those who subscribe to it “in the world.”

 

[nd_smc_02]

Sex and marriage will be irrelevant because we will have a kind of unity and joyful intimacy in God of which marriage is but a dim foreshadowing.

God love you,
Paul

Thanks everyone for your information. Wow…my Mormon friend never told me all of the intricate and contradicting details. This information will definitely help me in future discussions with her. Now that I am seeing what Mormons believe, it seems so easy to disprove to her.

PaulDupre’s answer sums it up. In Heaven we will be in true intimacy with God which will undescribably surpass all of the lovey-dovey feelings we have for our husbands (or wives) here on Earth. The deep rooted pride and need for power in Mormonism extends even after death - you’re a god, your married, your having sex - all needs of the flesh.

In the Catholic Church, our focus is on the Risen Lord and his true presence in the Eucharist. We learn to suffer for Christ and others, not for ourselves so that someday we can have our own Heaven.

 

[TonyR]

Ahh, the nub of it. I seriously doubt that this has anything to do with luck, Zerinus, and I also seriously doubt that you think so, either. This has to do with the carnal nature of the male human being, his natural desire to have sex with multiple partners, as well as to impose his dominion upon the female such that she is not permitted the same priveleges. And therein lies the truth of the polygamous practices of the Mormon patriarchs, founder Joseph Smith and his successors, and all the lions of Utah who were allowed this privelege of holy wife swapping. These were exceeding carnal men who, having separated themselves from Christianity, ran amok amongst the ladies of the LDS, most of whom were horrified at this practice, but were forced to acquiesce under threat of “destruction.”

Of course, I speak only for myself. Oh, and also orthodox Christianity, both Protestant and Catholic, which teach clearly, and have ALWAYS taught clearly, that polygamy is a sin, that adultery has a clear definition according to the words of Jesus recorded in the Bible, and that those who practice these things will not be found among the sheep but, rather, among the goats.

You see, in Christianity, men and women are equal. In the afterlife, there is no distinguishment made between the souls of women and men. It is the Christian religion that gives true equality to women. It is carnal man who plays the animal, imposing his sexual will upon women. This is a very distinguishing feature of Mormonism. Mormon men dominate women “in the world” and they continue to dominate them “out of the world” according to their fantasy religion. Thank God, it is only a fantasy! God help those who subscribe to it “in the world.”

You said it… Mormonism is NOT Christianity in any way shape or form. They are a CULT. :yup:

We will continue to go round in circles with this Group as well as the JW’s. Lord Have Mercy Christ Have Mercy Lord Have Mercy…

65 Days and Counting until Home In Rome… The ONE TRUE CHURCH… :dancing: :clapping:

 

[Allweather]

Thanks everyone for your information. Wow…my Mormon friend never told me all of the intricate and contradicting details. This information will definitely help me in future discussions with her. Now that I am seeing what Mormons believe, it seems so easy to disprove to her.

PaulDupre’s answer sums it up. In Heaven we will be in true intimacy with God which will undescribably surpass all of the lovey-dovey feelings we have for our husbands (or wives) here on Earth. The deep rooted pride and need for power in Mormonism extends even after death - you’re a god, your married, your having sex - all needs of the flesh.

In the Catholic Church, our focus is on the Risen Lord and his true presence in the Eucharist. We learn to suffer for Christ and others, not for ourselves so that someday we can have our own Heaven.

God bless you as you witness the Truth to your friend. I will pray for your situation this morning before the Blessed Sacrament. We believe that God will bring her home through the agency of your kind, patient, honest telling of the Truth.

 

[Allweather]

You said it… Mormonism is NOT Christianity in any way shape or form. They are a CULT. :yup:

That is true, but we must keep in mind that individual Mormons mostly are deephearted people of strong faith. For instance, up until last year I was completely fallen away from my Catholic faith. I wasn’t apostate. I still believed. But I was so deep in sin, going back to reconciliation just didn’t seem possible. Besides, I was having something of a good time, having lots of women in my bed, acting like a fool on a motorcycle… sort of a post mid-life crisis crisis.

I had met a nice 50-something Mormon lady. She was pretty much out of the regular Mormon practice; she was still tithing faithfully, but that’s about it. For four years, we lived a sinful life together. Sometimes the subject of religion would come up between us, but mostly not. Yet, she was praying. Even in her sin, which BTW had a lot more to do with her following ME (like a good Mormon woman will be prone to do) and doing what I wanted to do, than with her actually desiring to be in sin. She was hoping in the Lord that I would turn away from my sin, and become a Mormon, and that the two of us could be united as a Mormon husband and wife.

Well, her faithful four-year prayer program was answered, but not quite in the way she’d imagined it would be. I came home to my Catholic faith. In the process, she obediently (again, like a good Mormon woman, who always obeys her man, right, Zerinus?) came with me. At first, it was difficult for her. We started praying the Rosary together. She started going to Mass with me. After awhile, she started weeping during the Rosary, and soon afterward started weeping at Mass, too. Then, last November, she went to confession for the first time in 25 years! Next week, she’s going on her Cursillo weekend, and I am so STOKED over that, I can’t express my joy in the written word, that is for sure.

It was the faithful, deephearted prayer of a Mormon woman who brought me home from my sinful lifestyle. That is why I say, be kind to the Mormon people. They are some of the very best people there are! Their religion is built on lies, but most of them don’t realize that.

 

[zerinus]

Thanks, but what I’m actually asking about is that clause not being bound by any law out of the world. “therefore they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.” I hope I paraphrased that accurately, as I am not looking at the quote you provided. From the Mormon point of view, what is the meaning of “bound” as it is given here. I get the impression that God’s law is not binding on souls who are “out of the world.” Is that correct?

No, that is not what it means. It means that “the law of civil marriage” will not be binding on them after death, or in the resurrection, because it was not performed by the proper authority of God.

OK, I think I got that, and that seems reasonable, and actually very similar to Catholic teaching with regard to sin. What I am getting at, though, is the nature of this “sin” Mormons are talking about. Are we to gather that it is a sin not to be married? Or, rather, a sin to CHOOSE not to marry for whatever reason, let’s say, a simple desire not to be married?

The sin is in rejecting the law that God has revealed—once it has been revealed. No one can be condemned for rejecting something that God has not yet revealed. Prefacing that revelation the Lord made this comment:

D&C 132:

3 Therefore, prepare thy heart to receive and obey the instructions which I am about to give unto you; for all those who have this law revealed unto them must obey the same.

4 For behold, I reveal unto you a new and an everlasting covenant; and if ye abide not that covenant, then are ye damned; for no one can reject this covenant and be permitted to enter into my glory.

5 For all who will have a blessing at my hands shall abide the law which was appointed for that blessing, and the conditions thereof, as were instituted from before the foundation of the world.

So as you can see, the condemnation comes after rejecting a law that God has revealed. And the conditions of this law are explained in the same revelation as follows:

6 And as pertaining to the new and everlasting covenant, it was instituted for the fulness of my glory; and he that receiveth a fulness thereof must and shall abide the law, or he shall be damned, saith the Lord God.

7 And verily I say unto you, that the conditions of this law are these: All covenants, contracts, bonds, obligations, oaths, vows, performances, connections, associations, or expectations, that are not made and entered into and sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, of him who is anointed, both as well for time and for all eternity, and that too most holy, by revelation and commandment through the medium of mine anointed, whom I have appointed on the earth to hold this power (and I have appointed unto my servant Joseph to hold this power in the last days, and there is never but one on the earth at a time on whom this power and the keys of this priesthood are conferred), are of no efficacy, virtue, or force in and after the resurrection from the dead; for all contracts that are not made unto this end have an end when men are dead.

As you can see, the law is more comprehensive that just eternal marriage; but it finds its greatest fulfilment in the lives of people in relation to the covenant of eternal marriage, which is why it is often just associated with that. And as you can also see, it is not related to polygamy as such either. It relates to eternal marriage—be it with one wife or many. And in the continuation to that verse, the Lord has given the following additional clarifications:

8 Behold, mine house is a house of order, saith the Lord God, and not a house of confusion.

9 Will I accept of an offering, saith the Lord, that is not made in my name?

10 Or will I receive at your hands that which I have not appointed?

11 And will I appoint unto you, saith the Lord, except it be by law, even as I and my Father ordained unto you, before the world was?

12 I am the Lord thy God; and I give unto you this commandment—that no man shall come unto the Father but by me or by my word, which is my law, saith the Lord.

13 And everything that is in the world, whether it be ordained of men, by thrones, or principalities, or powers, or things of name, whatsoever they may be, that are not by me or by my word, saith the Lord, shall be thrown down, and shall not remain after men are dead, neither in nor after the resurrection, saith the Lord your God.

14 For whatsoever things remain are by me; and whatsoever things are not by me shall be shaken and destroyed.

zerinus

Continued . . . /

 

[zerinus]

/. . . Continued

In answer to your question of whether it is a sin not to be married, or not desire to be married, the answer depends on the circumstance. Why would anyone not want to be married? We believe that the desire to be married and have offspring is a natural inborn desire of all mankind. It is a sign of abnormality, or emotional or psychological problems, or perhaps just plain ignorance not to desire to be married. May Catholic monks and nuns have believed in all sincerity that it is holier to be celibate than to be married. That can be put down to just ignorance or false teaching. To this day the Catholic Church prevents its priesthood to be married. That is more than ignorance; it is a sin. This is what the Lord has revealed to us about that:

D&C 49:

15 And again, verily I say unto you, that whoso forbiddeth to marry is not ordained of God, for marriage is ordained of God unto man.

In the LDS Church it is the opposite. I have never met, or heard of a Mormon bishop, stake president, Apostle or Prophet that was not married. There is no written law that says they should be married; but there seems to be an unwritten law. But in answer to your question, I would say that if someone knows the will of God as described above, and then wilfully rejects it or “desires” to be unmarried in spite of it, then I would say that that is a sin.

zerinus

 

[PaulDupre]

zerinus:

It is a sign of abnormality, or emotional or psychological problems, or perhaps just plain ignorance not to desire to be married. May Catholic monks and nuns have believed in all sincerity that it is holier to be celibate than to be married. That can be put down to just ignorance or false teaching.

Actually, both Jesus and Paul taught the virtue of celibacy for the sake of the gospel. But that’s in the bible, so I guess Mormons wouldn’t believe it.

To this day the Catholic Church prevents its priesthood to be married. That is more than ignorance; it is a sin.

Celibacy for clergy is only practiced in the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. The Eastern Catholic Rites have married priests. But even in the Latin Rite, no one is “prevented” from marrying. It is a voluntary choice by those who want to be priests. Jesus taught that anyone who could remain celibate for the sake of the gospel should do so. (Matt 19:11). Paul wrote that he wished everyone could remain celibate, as he himself was. (1Cor 7:1-9)

The LDS are way off on this one. Horny Joe made up his own gospel of lust, but it is opposite the gospel of Christ.

Paul

 

[zerinus]

But even in the Latin Rite, no one is “prevented” from marrying. It is a voluntary choice by those who want to be priests.

That is rubbish. You know perfectly well that is not true. An African bishop was recently put down by the Catholic Church for ordaining four married priests.

zerinus

 

[TonyR]

That is true, but we must keep in mind that individual Mormons mostly are deephearted people of strong faith. For instance, up until last year I was completely fallen away from my Catholic faith. I wasn’t apostate. I still believed. But I was so deep in sin, going back to reconciliation just didn’t seem possible. Besides, I was having something of a good time, having lots of women in my bed, acting like a fool on a motorcycle… sort of a post mid-life crisis crisis.

I had met a nice 50-something Mormon lady. She was pretty much out of the regular Mormon practice; she was still tithing faithfully, but that’s about it. For four years, we lived a sinful life together. Sometimes the subject of religion would come up between us, but mostly not. Yet, she was praying. Even in her sin, which BTW had a lot more to do with her following ME (like a good Mormon woman will be prone to do) and doing what I wanted to do, than with her actually desiring to be in sin. She was hoping in the Lord that I would turn away from my sin, and become a Mormon, and that the two of us could be united as a Mormon husband and wife.

Well, her faithful four-year prayer program was answered, but not quite in the way she’d imagined it would be. I came home to my Catholic faith. In the process, she obediently (again, like a good Mormon woman, who always obeys her man, right, Zerinus?) came with me. At first, it was difficult for her. We started praying the Rosary together. She started going to Mass with me. After awhile, she started weeping during the Rosary, and soon afterward started weeping at Mass, too. Then, last November, she went to confession for the first time in 25 years! Next week, she’s going on her Cursillo weekend, and I am so STOKED over that, I can’t express my joy in the written word, that is for sure.

It was the faithful, deephearted prayer of a Mormon woman who brought me home from my sinful lifestyle. That is why I say, be kind to the Mormon people. They are some of the very best people there are! Their religion is built on lies, but most of them don’t realize that.

Allweather

Thanks for the post. Yes I will agree that Mormons are basically very Kind people but very deceived. Yes I hear what you are saying and I say thanks for the post. I hear you loud and clear. This is a beautiful for you and your lady friend. Thanks Be to God and welcome back Rome… Again thanks for the post

TonyR

65 More Days to Home in Rome :dancing: :clapping:

 

[Catholic_Guy]

That is rubbish. You know perfectly well that is not true. An African bishop was recently put down by the Catholic Church for ordaining four married priests.

zerinus

Get your facts straight Zerinus, they were not being ordained Priests. This African Bishop without the approval of the Holy See, and against the Churches authority ordained four married Bishops, Big Difference.