Mormons, please set the record straight

[CourtingTex]

Where do I begin

I am willing to have a conservation with anyone, one to one.

How would Jesus Christ have myself address this thread?

Speaking for myself, I am not going to speak for official church headquarters in Salt Lake City regardless of the continued drumbeat of some wanting the title of this thread moving where, if I ask??

Thank you Jesus Christ and the good news and the way of life your gospel allows in the USA and in the world generally. Your Atonement as Easter approaches is further significant to me.

 

[SeekerWillie]

Here are a few things that I think are fundamental to Mormonism.

First, that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. That he lived, died, and was resurrected. That through him we may be saved and gain eternal salvation.

I’ve forgotten, does the LDS church believe in the trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit?

Fifth, that the family is eternal. If the Eternal Father were to open the heavens to our view we would see men and women organized in families.

This is one thing that I’ve personally always found very appealing about the Mormon faith. Particularly with both my parents gone from this life, I find the thought comforting.

 

[Alma147]

I’ve forgotten, does the LDS church believe in the trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit?

It depends. If you consult a very popular and quasi-canonical book by of the LDS Apostles (now deceased) James E. Talmage, “The Articles of Faith” he includes a chapter titled, “God and the Holy Trinity,” he outlines our beliefs which aren’t what I’d call trinitarian–although we affirm all three members of the godhead as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

This is one thing that I’ve personally always found very appealing about the Mormon faith. Particularly with both my parents gone from this life, I find the thought comforting.

I too find it comforting. We are an eternal family–in heaven and earth as noted by Paul in Ephesians 3:14-15.

Alma

 

[Fiasco]

One possibility is that he was referring to the apocryphal book of Tobit. (In Jesus’s day, many books were regarded as scriptural that would not ultimately be included in the Old Testament canon.)

The Book of Tobit isn’t apocryphal.
Luther got rid of it because the got rid of 2 Maccabees which contradicted his false doctrine of Faith Alone. So, 1 Maccabees and 5 others also had to be thrown out.

Our Lord said that the existence of those in Heaven would be like that of the angels…The Beatific Vision. (See below.)

I’ve forgotten, does the LDS church believe in the trinity: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit?

This is one thing that I’ve personally always found*** very appealing about the Mormon faith***. Particularly with both my parents gone from this life,*** I find the thought comforting.***

It’s false, all the same.
“very appealing” and “comforting” can also be very ensnaring.
The ultimate goal for us is The Beatific Vision: the raw Spirit-to-spirit contact with God, Himself, along with spirit- to-spirit contact with all of the others in Heaven, including your parents if they’re in Heaven. It’ll be a union of*** unspeakable knowledge and unspeakable love.***

The doctrine of the Blessed Trinity is rejected, at least, the orthodox doctrine.

 

[Fiasco]

How would Jesus Christ have myself address this thread?

Truthfully regarding LDS doctrine/teaching/practices, rather than with the caginess of LDS missionaries and some LDS members on these forums (over a period of years).

 

[HelenRose]

Like baptizing people’s dead relatives w/o permission?

Do they still teach that God had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus or did they drop that nonsense?

I am not a Mormon but I don’t like the tone of your post. “Drop that nonsense” is insulting to say the least. It is no way to have a real discussion about Mormon beliefs.

It would be like asking me, “Have you quit worshiping Mary or did the Church drop all that nonsense?”

It is simply a way to start a fight.

 

[CourtingTex]

Truthfully regarding LDS doctrine/teaching/practices, rather than with the caginess of LDS missionaries and some LDS members on these forums (over a period of years).

I do not respond to views or versions of doctrine outside of my own study, recognizing that I do not have to dignify what some may have their own reason for wanting answers ---- I have a number questions about Catholicism— no interest in Catholicism convincing me to believe or open to believe something.

The forums has had examples of Catholics, non Catholics and others seeking to gain a better understanding of Catholicism in light of its declarations of truth

Again I will only respond to questions asked of me personally ---- zero interest in the “gotta game” if you will — meaning I have to defend or explain “someone’s version” of what my spiritual conviction

 

[Fiasco]

I do not respond to views or versions of doctrine outside of my own study,…

No one could argue with that.

…Again I will only respond to questions asked of me personally ---- zero interest in the “gotta game” if you will — meaning I have to defend or explain “someone’s version” of what my spiritual conviction

This is a problem with LDS missionaries and apologists: a refusal to be up front.
Why?
If what you believe is AOK, then, from your perspective, the more who see it, the better.

 

[CourtingTex]

No one could argue with that.

This is a problem with LDS missionaries and apologists: a refusal to be up front.
Why?
If what you believe is AOK, then, from your perspective, the more who see it, the better.

I will continue prayer instead of having part of any effort to eliminate (whatever one’s agenda is) regarding another person’s spirituality — that person has liberty of religion in the USA and in the world in general as much of the rest of humanity.

 

[Fiasco]

I will continue prayer instead of having part of any effort to eliminate (whatever one’s agenda is) regarding another person’s spirituality…

My only agenda is to expect to be given honest answers. Surely, that’s a reasonable expectation!

In other words, you’re not going to be any more open/helpful than virtually any other LDS members on these forums.

Well over a decade ago, two LDS missionaries rang the doorbell late on New Year’s Eve.(!)
Among other questions, i asked: “Do you believe that God is the Creator of the universe?”
The response: “We believe that God created the earth and all that is in it.”
So, they didn’t answer the question, but in an around about way, they did answer it.
Why is there this refusal to give direct answers?! It’s only natural that this tactic creates suspicion.

Eternal Progression?
What is God’s essence/nature?
Did He have a beginning?
Is the King Follett Discourse doctrine?
How did Mary conceive her Son?
Etc.

To “throw down the gauntlet” in a way: what has to be hidden?

 

[CourtingTex]

My only agenda is to expect to be given honest answers. Surely, that’s a reasonable expectation!

In other words, you’re not going to be any more open/helpful than virtually any other LDS members on these forums.

Well over a decade ago, two LDS missionaries rang the doorbell late on New Year’s Eve.(!)
Among other questions, i asked: “Do you believe that God is the Creator of the universe?”
The response: “We believe that God created the earth and all that is in it.”
So, they didn’t answer the question, but in an around about way, they did answer it.
Why is there this refusal to give direct answers?! It’s only natural that this tactic creates suspicion.

Eternal Progression?
What is God’s essence/nature?
Did He have a beginning?
Is the King Follett Discourse doctrine?
How did Mary conceive her Son?
Etc.

To “throw down the gauntlet” in a way: what has to be hidden?

So convince me because I am trying to believe your motives relative to my church or this a continuous episode of “gotta Mormon - explain this and something else about your church”

I am more willing to have dialogue with you, personally, to attempt to answer questions — my views/responses only not to be speak for official church headquarters in Salt Lake City.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I will continue prayer instead of having part of any effort to eliminate (whatever one’s agenda is) regarding another person’s spirituality — that person has liberty of religion in the USA and in the world in general as much of the rest of humanity.

Of course you won’t you don’t need to, the LDS church sends out tens of thousands of missionaries to eliminate another person’s spirituality.

 

[RebeccaJ]

So convince me because I am trying to believe your motives relative to my church or this a continuous episode of “gotta Mormon - explain this and something else about your church”

I am more willing to have dialogue with you, personally, to attempt to answer questions — my views/responses only not to be speak for official church headquarters in Salt Lake City.

A symptom of your Mormonism, that is, to suspect that everyone is out to get you and genuine dialogue only occurs within the confines of accepting Mormon claims, beliefs and doctrines.

 

[adamhovey1988]

A symptom of your Mormonism, that is, to suspect that everyone is out to get you and genuine dialogue only occurs within the confines of accepting Mormon claims, beliefs and doctrines.

I do not wish to Stereotype Mormons but I have noticed that many Mormon folks believe that if you challenge their views you’re anti-mormon. Just because I disagree with someone doesn’t mean I hate someone or am afraid of someone or whatever else people say nowadays

 

[Alma147]

I do not wish to Stereotype Mormons but I have noticed that many Mormon folks believe that if you challenge their views you’re anti-mormon. Just because I disagree with someone doesn’t mean I hate someone or am afraid of someone or whatever else people say nowadays

So, if you disagree with Mormons you’re pro-Mormon?

Alma

 

[Alma147]

My only agenda is to expect to be given honest answers. Surely, that’s a reasonable expectation!

Well over a decade ago, two LDS missionaries rang the doorbell late on New Year’s Eve.(!)
Among other questions, i asked: “Do you believe that God is the Creator of the universe?”
The response: “We believe that God created the earth and all that is in it.”
So, they didn’t answer the question, but in an around about way, they did answer it.
Why is there this refusal to give direct answers?! It’s only natural that this tactic creates suspicion.

Fiasco, you might consider that there’s another reason for Mormons appearing cagey in their response. I would be hesitant to give a yes or no answer to your question because I wouldn’t want you to misunderstand the LDS perspective. Mormons don’t believe the same thing that orthodoxy does with regard to creation–and we don’t know if there are bounds to the universe. We do believe that Jesus Christ created the heavens and the earth and all that is in them–more worlds than a human could count–but we don’t accept creatio ex nihilo, so there’s reason to be cautious in responding to your question.

Eternal Progression?

Yes.

What is God’s essence/nature?

Good question. I don’t know and I don’t think anyone else does Mormon or Catholic.

Did He have a beginning?

That has not been revealed to us. We can speculate on it.

Is the King Follett Discourse doctrine?

It’s not part of our canon; but there are many things that are true that aren’t canonical–much like tradition in Catholicism.

How did Mary conceive her Son?

Another good question. I don’t think anyone knows. But our canon states that Mary was a virgin after Jesus was born. 1 Nephi 11:20 “And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.”

Etc.

Definitely.

Alma

 

[Vonsalza]

How did Mary conceive her son?

Another good question. I don’t think anyone knows. But our canon states that Mary was a virgin after Jesus was born. 1 Nephi 11:20 “And I looked and beheld the virgin again, bearing a child in her arms.”

A rather dishonest answer, from the Mormon perspective. Your “prophet” felt quite strongly that Jesus was the product of sexual intercourse between Mary and Elohim.

The biggest problem with Mormonism is that the suspension of disbelief that they advocate can be used to believe literally anything else. I say that as charitably as I can.

If we should eschew the fact that there’s zero archeological evidence for any uniquely Mormon historical claim, that level of blind belief can be readily used to worship The Flying Spaghetti Monster (may you be touched by his noodly appendage).

They can’t “set the record straight”, per the op, because they have zero record prior to some huckster from Vermont starting yet another uniquely American, Christian-Restoration cult. It is a religion fashioned purely from whole cloth.

 

[CourtingTex]

Of course you won’t you don’t need to, the LDS church sends out tens of thousands of missionaries to eliminate another person’s spirituality.

Could you explain HOW others spirituality is being eliminated? Going back to my point that one can be open to missionaries of whatever Christian cause, non Christian, etc etc related to religion in general including my church OR WALK AWAY, shut the door, not talk to neighbor/work associate/relative/friend who is LDS or any other church/religion for that matter as well — by the way that includes Catholicism.

So the LDS church eliminated my loyalty to Catholicism HOW when I left on my own without being eliminated/etc …???

 

[Alma147]

Interesting.

The BoM claims that ancient Jews built submarines circa 2500 BC.

Where? I’ve read the Book of Mormon over 20 times and I haven’t seen that bit. Can you give me a citation?

The BoM claims Jews didn’t understand Egyptian language despite being in Egypt for generations.

Where? I’ve read the Book of Mormon over 20 times and I haven’t seen that bit. Can you give me a citation?

The BoM mis-dates the Babylonian Exile.

Where? I’ve read the Book of Mormon over 20 times and I haven’t seen that bit. Can you give me a citation?

The BoM mis-dates the birth of Christ

Where? I’ve read the Book of Mormon over 20 times and I haven’t seen that bit. Can you give me a citation?

The BoM states horses, cattle, steel, silk, wheat, barley, pigs and honeybees were in the New Word centuries before Europeans brought them. They also claim elephants were in the NW.

Finally. It’s a standard practice to give existing names to foreign animals and products when immigrating or exploring new lands. Roman explorers named new animals they found “water horses” (hippos). Peccaries in the new world belong to the family Tayassuidae (new world swine) If scientists can classify them as swine, why not the BoM? The term “steel” was used in the KJV as a translation of “nechushah” which applies to several metals. Do you doubt the scholarship of the KJV translators? The Book of Mormon never places honeybees in the New World. The single reference in the text is before the Jaredites left Eurasia.

It seems the BoM was a fiction drafted by someone with very little scholarship, actually.

It does seem that way until you give it more than a cursory investigation. When you look more closely, you’ll find amazing circumstances.

Alma

 

[kozlosap]

Will one of you kind LDS folks explain to me how, in the very strict Victorian era USA, Joseph Smith was able to morally explain his development of plural spouses? I have met and been friends with many LDS people and they too, were at a loss for words concerning Mormon marriage in the 19th Century. My other question is about the LDS view of Heaven. If I was LDS and a single woman, where would I go without a God/Husband? I read on a blog that single women such as myself were truly losers in the eyes of LDS theology and I would be given to a family on either the second or third heavenly planet to be a maid. Oh my. If someone would explain, it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance for answering, I’m sure many Mormons also think that the Catholic Church also has many theological practices and beliefs that are hard to comprehend.