Mormons search the web and find doubt

[invisible_man]

How do you know? Have you been Catholic? Have you been LDS? You have yet to answer. How are you “sure”? Instead it’s more speculation (“I don’t think”, “I could be wrong”).

I don’t know. However, I do know that people search the web and find doubt regardless of the faith that they belong to. Catholics and Mormons have found doubt by searching the web. I don’t celebrate when people find doubt regardless of their faith because it does mean a shakeup in their personal lives. Sure Mormons find doubt. Sure Baptists also find doubt as do Catholics. Other people also find doubt. We live in an age of doubt.

Some people celebrate when Mormons find doubt. Why? What is there to celebrate? Should we also celebrate when Catholics find doubt? The internet is tricky business. However, I did search lds.org and found many answers. When I searched the Joseph Smith Papers I found many answers. We need to remember that Sunday School is a weekly event in the LDS faith. What should they teach in their Sunday School classes to draw the LDS closer to God not just on Sunday but throughout the week is important.

You have found doubt in the LDS faith and a renewed faith in the Catholic Church. At one time you also doubted the Catholic Faith. Maybe God brought you to the LDS faith as a prelude to rejoining the Catholic community. Not such a bad thing really, if so.

 

[invisible_man]

Further, why do you think it isn’t taught in the classes, meaning, it isn’t taught in the manuals we taught from?

Maybe it is not relevant. Why learn something that has no meaning for today? I only know a simple truth. Mormons are good people who attempt to obey God’s law. Some do it better than others. Joseph Smith himself would admit that he wasn’t perfect as would any Pope or any other religious leader. If I attended Sunday School, I would want to learn what I need to know to be a better person and knowledge that would bring me closer to God. I am sure that the Mormons are learning just that if their behavior is an example.

 

[invisible_man]

I posted a comment on the UU thread. I have attended the UU church in the past and I can listen to a UU podcast from a UU church. I like what the pastors say. They use a lot of humanist philosphy and also they use the bible. They attempt to help people to be more loving people by putting their humanity first. I see no reason to down their fiath. Likewise for the Mormon faith. What would I gain by telling the UU’s that their faith is false? Nothing. Likewise for the Mormons. Of course, people believe that they have truth and believe that their truth trumps someone else’s truth. This is only natural. I do think that people can have charitable discussions without labeling this or that church false or by calling another religion’s leaders false.

I know that Mormon missionaries preach that their church is true. Nothing wrong in that. All faiths do this. Catholics do it too. However, the dialogue should be in charity.

 

[SteveVH]

I don’t know. However, I do know that people search the web and find doubt regardless of the faith that they belong to. Catholics and Mormons have found doubt by searching the web.

As one Catholic, I have never, ever had my faith shaken by something I have found on the internet. The more the Catholic faith is explored, the more in love with it one becomes.

 

[SteveVH]

Maybe it is not relevant. Why learn something that has no meaning for today? I only know a simple truth. Mormons are good people who attempt to obey God’s law. Some do it better than others. Joseph Smith himself would admit that he wasn’t perfect as would any Pope or any other religious leader. If I attended Sunday School, I would want to learn what I need to know to be a better person and knowledge that would bring me closer to God. I am sure that the Mormons are learning just that if their behavior is an example.

I have been involved in discussions with those of the Baha’i faith lately. These folks are super nice, respectful and, from what I can tell, live a very good life. Jesus did not come to teach us how to be good people, he came to save us. While one may very well be a good person, he still falls short of deserving heaven. We need a Savior. My point is that one’s social behavior is not necessarily a measure of the truth of one’s religion. There are very good people in all religions, but not all religions can be true.

 

[Porknpie]

Maybe it is not relevant. Why learn something that has no meaning for today? I only know a simple truth. Mormons are good people who attempt to obey God’s law.

A generalization but I know many good Mormons. But I know many good Lutherans, Baptists and so on.

Some do it better than others. Joseph Smith himself would admit that he wasn’t perfect as would any Pope or any other religious leader.

He wouldn’t admit he was perfect…nor would he admit that he broke the law of the land in marrying 34 women marrying two girls at 14 years old. He also would not admit breaking the Ten Commandments at the same time, through both polygamy and adultery. This is not prophet of God.

If I attended Sunday School, I would want to learn what I need to know to be a better person and knowledge that would bring me closer to God.

Better to read about the Catholic faith on Sunday on CAF than attend LDS Sunday school and be misled on faith and morals. Suggest listening to my favorite Jesuit’s homily note on my signature as you are able.

 

[JHow]

… Of course, people believe that they have truth and believe that their truth trumps someone else’s truth…

There is no ‘my truth’ or ‘your truth’. A thing is either true or it isn’t, would you agree?

 

[TexanKnight]

I don’t know. However, I do know that people search the web and find doubt regardless of the faith that they belong to. Catholics and Mormons have found doubt by searching the web. I don’t celebrate when people find doubt regardless of their faith because it does mean a shakeup in their personal lives. Sure Mormons find doubt. Sure Baptists also find doubt as do Catholics. Other people also find doubt. We live in an age of doubt.

Some people celebrate when Mormons find doubt. Why? What is there to celebrate? Should we also celebrate when Catholics find doubt? The internet is tricky business. However, I did search lds.org and found many answers. When I searched the Joseph Smith Papers I found many answers. We need to remember that Sunday School is a weekly event in the LDS faith. What should they teach in their Sunday School classes to draw the LDS closer to God not just on Sunday but throughout the week is important.

You have found doubt in the LDS faith and a renewed faith in the Catholic Church. At one time you also doubted the Catholic Faith. Maybe God brought you to the LDS faith as a prelude to rejoining the Catholic community. Not such a bad thing really, if so.

people do not fine doubt in the Catholic Church because the Catholic prophets lied, or committed fraud, or lied, or had various versions of a vision. They might have a crisis of faith, but not for the same reasons LDS folks leave. Stop comparing. A crisis of faith is different than finding our the truth about a false church and false prophets

 

[TexanKnight]

Maybe it is not relevant. Why learn something that has no meaning for today? I only know a simple truth. Mormons are good people who attempt to obey God’s law. Some do it better than others. Joseph Smith himself would admit that he wasn’t perfect as would any Pope or any other religious leader. If I attended Sunday School, I would want to learn what I need to know to be a better person and knowledge that would bring me closer to God. I am sure that the Mormons are learning just that if their behavior is an example.

stop comparing js to Popes. Popes do not make the claims js did. They do not claim to have seen God and received plates from God, and seen and spoken to God.

js made those claims, and he has been proven to be dishonest

 

[truthsilence]

I posted a comment on the UU thread. I have attended the UU church in the past and I can listen to a UU podcast from a UU church. I like what the pastors say. They use a lot of humanist philosphy and also they use the bible. They attempt to help people to be more loving people by putting their humanity first. I see no reason to down their fiath. Likewise for the Mormon faith. What would I gain by telling the UU’s that their faith is false? Nothing. Likewise for the Mormons. Of course, people believe that they have truth and believe that their truth trumps someone else’s truth. This is only natural. I do think that people can have charitable discussions without labeling this or that church false or by calling another religion’s leaders false.

I know that Mormon missionaries preach that their church is true. Nothing wrong in that. All faiths do this. Catholics do it too. However, the dialogue should be in charity.

Mormon’s tend to go on the defensive too easily. All the while, tens of thousands of their so-called missionaries are going around the world teaching people that the Christian creeds are an abomination before God. To top it off, many of them deny the very doctrines that set their church at odds with traditional Christianity, insisting instead that they believe in the same God that Christian’s profess in the creeds. Makes a whole lot of sense to me!

 

[LivingWaters7]

I don’t know. However, I do know that people search the web and find doubt regardless of the faith that they belong to. Catholics and Mormons have found doubt by searching the web. I don’t celebrate when people find doubt regardless of their faith because it does mean a shakeup in their personal lives. Sure Mormons find doubt. Sure Baptists also find doubt as do Catholics. Other people also find doubt. We live in an age of doubt.

Of course. However this thread is specifically about Mormons that apparently search the web and find doubt.

Some people celebrate when Mormons find doubt. Why? What is there to celebrate? Should we also celebrate when Catholics find doubt? The internet is tricky business. However, I did search lds.org and found many answers. When I searched the Joseph Smith Papers I found many answers. We need to remember that Sunday School is a weekly event in the LDS faith. What should they teach in their Sunday School classes to draw the LDS closer to God not just on Sunday but throughout the week is important.

This has already been addressed multiple times. No need to do so again.

You have found doubt in the LDS faith and a renewed faith in the Catholic Church. At one time you also doubted the Catholic Faith. Maybe God brought you to the LDS faith as a prelude to rejoining the Catholic community. Not such a bad thing really, if so.

Thank you for sharing your opinion.

 

[LivingWaters7]

Maybe it is not relevant. Why learn something that has no meaning for today?

Perhaps it doesn’t have meaning for you (especially since you aren’t a Latter-day Saint, and presumably never were one, and have no actual experience as a believing Mormon), but to others, it does. You may attempt to dismiss it with the wave of the hand, but it’s clear that not everyone shares your dismissal.

I only know a simple truth. Mormons are good people who attempt to obey God’s law. Some do it better than others. Joseph Smith himself would admit that he wasn’t perfect as would any Pope or any other religious leader. If I attended Sunday School, I would want to learn what I need to know to be a better person and knowledge that would bring me closer to God. I am sure that the Mormons are learning just that if their behavior is an example.

Again, it would best for you to stop with the straw man of Joseph Smith being perfect. This has already been addressed multiple times, and the fact that you insist on bringing it up demonstrates that you seem to be more interested in arguing against arguments of your own design, and not what anyone else is actually saying.

Thanks for sharing what you would like in Sunday School, as a non/never been-Mormon, correct? Not everyone shares your view, as mentioned.

 

[LivingWaters7]

I posted a comment on the UU thread. I have attended the UU church in the past and I can listen to a UU podcast from a UU church. I like what the pastors say. They use a lot of humanist philosphy and also they use the bible. They attempt to help people to be more loving people by putting their humanity first. I see no reason to down their fiath. Likewise for the Mormon faith. What would I gain by telling the UU’s that their faith is false? Nothing. Likewise for the Mormons. Of course, people believe that they have truth and believe that their truth trumps someone else’s truth. This is only natural. I do think that people can have charitable discussions without labeling this or that church false or by calling another religion’s leaders false.

---

18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”***
lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1?lang=eng

I know that Mormon missionaries preach that their church is true. Nothing wrong in that. All faiths do this. Catholics do it too. However, the dialogue should be in charity.

The fact of the matter is that not everyone shares your relativistic view on religion. Latter-day Saints believe that their Church is the Restored Church, the only true and living Church on the face of the earth, with the restoration of true doctrines, and that it is only within it that the ordinances required for eternal life can be found, and that even the deceased need these ordinances performed by the restored priesthood. Clearly, for Mormons, it isn’t just about being nice and charitable (though we certainly should be), but that it is important to have the Truth and enter into saving covenants, which are only found in the LDS Church. Catholics would make similar arguments. So, we’re not talking about doing and believing whatever we want, as long as we’re nice, and that’s what really matters. Instead, we’re talking about eternal life and the salvation of individuals. A Catholic or a Mormon could be the nicest person ever, but if what they believe or do is false, an “abomination”, then it won’t lead them to eternal life. I agree that charity in dialogue is important, however talking about actual substance (instead of “ohh, it doesn’t matter, they’re nice people doing their best”) is as well.

 

[Brandon_Cal]

When I searched the Joseph Smith Papers I found many answers. We need to remember that Sunday School is a weekly event in the LDS faith. What should they teach in their Sunday School classes to draw the LDS closer to God not just on Sunday but throughout the week is important.

You have found doubt in the LDS faith and a renewed faith in the Catholic Church. At one time you also doubted the Catholic Faith. Maybe God brought you to the LDS faith as a prelude to rejoining the Catholic community. Not such a bad thing really, if so.

You seem to be woefully missing the point of this thread (sorry to be frank).

You presumably searched for the JSP because that information was initially given to you. Without prior knowledge of something, you would have nothing to search for. I’ve never done a Google search for “brown and purple polka dot flags used by aliens in the Andromeda galaxy”. You know why? Because I’ve been given no reason to do so.

Unless a person is given defamatory information about the LDS Church, she would have no reason; no basis for even searching for the information. Think about it, as a practicing Mormon how would I even know to start researching the alleged relationship between the Temple Endowment and Freemasonry unless somebody had told me beforehand that such a relationship exists?

The problem here arises in what information is even given to members by the Church. We’re told both verbally in classes and visually through Church art that Joseph Smith translated the Book of Mormon “through the gift of prophecy” by actually observing the inscriptions on the Golden Plates and dictating to his scribe, Oliver Cowdery, the words thereof. As practicing members we have no reason to doubt this account… until we do! A non-Mormon, or an ex-Mormon, or an “anti-Mormon” tells us about the “Head in the Hat” method of translation which involves the plates not even being in Joseph Smith’s vicinity!

Yes, of course we could “search lds.org”, but until this point we would’ve had no reason to do so! Do you randomly search the Internet to see if the Constitution was given to us by an alien rather than the founding fathers? Why not?

This is what we’re talking about. The LDS Church has not just simply ignored history, but it has actually tried to whitewash it… and now the Internet has caught up with it.

 

[twopekinguys]

Maybe it is not relevant. Why learn something that has no meaning for today? I only know a simple truth. Mormons are good people who attempt to obey God’s law. Some do it better than others. Joseph Smith himself would admit that he wasn’t perfect as would any Pope or any other religious leader. If I attended Sunday School, I would want to learn what I need to know to be a better person and knowledge that would bring me closer to God. I am sure that the Mormons are learning just that if their behavior is an example.

You are trying to confuse mormon theology with mormon people.

Nobody dislikes mormon people, except those that intentionally deceive people about what mormon theology and history really is. You know, lying for the lord, which is very common.

You remember that don’t you. Bob Millet from BYU explaining how to do it. Here.

You really need to separate the two.

 

[invisible_man]

As one Catholic, I have never, ever had my faith shaken by something I have found on the internet. The more the Catholic faith is explored, the more in love with it one becomes.

It does happen, This is why there is the Catholic Answer website. People need help in finding faith again or to defend their faith.

 

[invisible_man]

people do not fine doubt in the Catholic Church because the Catholic prophets lied, or committed fraud, or lied, or had various versions of a vision. They might have a crisis of faith, but not for the same reasons LDS folks leave.

People leave their faith for many reasons. Catholics leave their faith over history or perceived corruption etc. Mormns leave their faith over history or a crisis of faith. Lutherans leave their faith in Scandinavia over politics etc because the church is state run. People leave their faiths over various of reasons. It should not be a cause of celebration when religious people find doubt.

 

[invisible_man]

You are trying to confuse mormon theology with mormon people.

Nobody dislikes mormon people, except those that intentionally deceive people about what mormon theology and history really is. You know, lying for the lord, which is very common.

You really need to separate the two.

However, the people are their religion. I don’t think that they can be separted. How Mormons behave or act is a reflection of their religious faith and what they have been taught. Mormon behavior and how they engage their community is who they are because of their religious faith. How can a ;Mormon not be influenced by their religious tradition?

 

[twopekinguys]

However, the people are their religion. I don’t think that they can be separted. How Mormons behave or act is a reflection of their religious faith and what they have been taught. Mormon behavior and how they engage their community is who they are because of their religious faith. How can a ;Mormon not be influenced by their religious tradition?

If you want to stick with that, then you have to accept the bad history along with the good. mormons are too good at ignoring the bad, even if it is true.

mormonism is based on feelings. There is no truth to it.

MMM is a good example of mormonism trying to hide/ignore their history. Hickley flip flopped on it. Young tried to hide/lie about it.

Want to keep going?

 

[LivingWaters7]

People leave their faith for many reasons. Catholics leave their faith over history or perceived corruption etc. Mormns leave their faith over history or a crisis of faith. Lutherans leave their faith in Scandinavia over politics etc because the church is state run. People leave their faiths over various of reasons. It should not be a cause of celebration when religious people find doubt.

From the perspective of someone doubting what is believed to be a false or non-saving faith and coming to the “one true church”, it is a cause of celebration. Many, if not most Mormons would agree with such a view (otherwise they wouldn’t send out missionaries, including to proselytize Catholics, Protestants, and Orthodox, in the hopes that they doubt their faith and come to the restored true church). I know, because I, along with other converts, was asked to share my conversion story to Mormonism in various settings, including firesides and a stake conference.